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Post by PedroKsBambino on Dec 12, 2019 14:52:19 GMT -5
The Padres have Myers to offset salary, Cards w Carpenter, and Angels w Upton. The Reds and White Sox don't have similar salary dump players that make sense so I bet these teams also want Benintendi or another young player attached and then the Sox get a good prospect back
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 12, 2019 14:53:35 GMT -5
Skip to 1:02 for a synopsis of the Red Sox offseason: Thank you. This time every year I try to remember where "the weather outside is weather" comes from for weeks. Lol I’m guilty of saying that too. It’s one of those things I’ll never get a laugh for, but it still amuses me so I keep doing it.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 12, 2019 14:54:56 GMT -5
The Padres have Myers to offset salary, Cards w Carpenter, and Angels w Upton. The Reds and White Sox don't have similar salary dump players that make sense so I bet these teams also want Benintendi or another young player attached and then the Sox get a good prospect back Or just have the Sox offset part of the money.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 12, 2019 16:08:37 GMT -5
I think Matt Carpenter would be the ideal contract to take back. Still Slashing payroll, plus we can plug him in at 1B and 2B. If he rebounds he’s a really good player
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Post by soxfaninnj on Dec 12, 2019 16:42:17 GMT -5
Gammons is on MLB Network right now. Said he's heard a rumor of Benny and Price for Andrew Vaughn and Madrigal. Doesn't know if it will work out. Depends on how much the Sox pay down on Price. This should be the kind of deal Bloom and co are searching for. I saw a couple people on twitter mentioning Price possibly to the White Sox yesterday. We'll see I guess I would literally take off from work and drive Benny and price to Chicago and bring back Vaughn and Madrigal my self
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Post by orion09 on Dec 12, 2019 17:16:00 GMT -5
EDIT - FWIW, he also thinks the get to around 215M. If they are in contention by the trade deadline, then they move in 1 direction. If they aren't, they should be able to move enough money to get below 208. I like this idea a lot. Someone already pointed out that a midseason selloff could be a tough PR move, but I disagree. WEEI has been calling for the Sox to trade Mookie for months, so a casual fan probably doesn't get too upset as long as a) the Sox truly look bad and b) we get some kind of prospect return.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2019 17:18:13 GMT -5
Baseballs revenue has gone up by about 25% since Price signed his deal, which takes his 31 million salary and makes it 38.75 which no one got. It's really like James said in another thread teams added years instead of the extra money. I think Cole is better than Price, a year younger, less wear and tear. So instead of eight years at over 40 million, he got nine years to lower the AAV. Don't agree with the premise of your analysis. MLB revenue doesn't set the CBT, and if you're trying to adjust for the value of money over time you'd want to use inflation (in which case nobody is ever touching ARod, probably). That's the huge problem. It's exactly what happens in Football and Basketball. I didn't use inflation because I'm not trying to show exact amount, just what they should increase by. The luxury tax line is a joke, as Baseball has averaged about 6% growth, yet the tax line goes from 206 to 208 million. When it should have increased by over 12 million. What the tax line has moved like 10 million in four years, it should be closer to 50 million.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 13, 2019 9:42:16 GMT -5
Updating the Quest For Less Than 208.
Let's say they get someone to take $24M AAV of Price's salary (net), getting just a lottery ticket back -- pure salary dump.
JBJ and Hembree are traded.
And let's leave just $4M for deadline additions.
Budgeting $600K each for the last 7 roster spots, that leaves $9M for:
-- upgrading a new $600K CF -- an upgrade at starting 1B (otherwise, eventually Dalbec) -- an upgrade at bench 1B/OF (Travis) -- 1 to 3 pitching upgrades (over Velazquez, Johnson, Osich etc.) -- upgrading a backup C (probably none needed)
You might be able to both sign a 1B like Eric Thames and trade for a CF like Ender Inciarte if you kept everyone else at $600K and left yourself even less than $4M for the deadline.
More likely, they could get a quality player at one of those two positions, and spread some extra money across the others.
Now, if they shed Price and also trade JDM, they'd have a lot of money for those upgrades, or to cover getting less for Price. But I think that only works if they identify a potential DH replacement with nice bang-for buck (as I think they did with Perez for Price). If you can spend $6M for a DH and get $16M of value (2 WAR), you come out ahead.
A key thing: at how many of those positions can they identify a $600K guy who might provide big bang for buck, versus a $3M guy, or even a $6M guy? The more they lust after the latter types, the more sense it bakes to trade JDM as well as Price. The more real cheap upside guys they can identify, the less sense it makes.
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Post by jbsox on Dec 14, 2019 8:49:23 GMT -5
Alex Speier came out with an article that after the winter meetings it’s looking more likely Price will be traded (also without Benintendi attached). It’s just a matter of how much the contract will be subsidized for the player return we get.
Then we might have to backfill a starting pitcher again cheaply. Any ideas? I’ll throw out a name Wade Miley. He’s actually pitched well the last couple years. Maybe a bit under the radar. Yet another lefty. Lol Rich Hill should come cheap as well, but won’t be ready at the start of the season.
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Post by Canseco on Dec 14, 2019 9:13:00 GMT -5
Trade Price and Martinez, keep JBJ (it’s one more year), and focus on improving quality big league depth on the pitching staff. We need the long term financial flexibility for other big ticket items. I’m willing to roll the dice with some combination of Dalbec/Peraza/Lin/Hernandez/Chatham/quality defensive catcher/outfielder to fill out the bench roles.
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Post by jdb on Dec 14, 2019 10:07:39 GMT -5
There was an article on The Athletic yesterday saying we are willing to pay it down to $20M. If that’s the case I think it would appeal to some of the smaller market teams and some others like the White Sox who haven’t had the easiest time signing top FA’s. I wonder if a team like the Rangers who are going into a new park and could use a big name and a 3B when we have two MLB ready guys.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 14, 2019 16:18:58 GMT -5
Unless you saw something different, it was Chad Jennings chat and it was a suggestion. It did not come from the Sox.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 14, 2019 20:28:25 GMT -5
Alex Speier came out with an article that after the winter meetings it’s looking more likely Price will be traded (also without Benintendi attached). It’s just a matter of how much the contract will be subsidized for the player return we get. Then we might have to backfill a starting pitcher again cheaply. Any ideas? I’ll throw out a name Wade Miley. He’s actually pitched well the last couple years. Maybe a bit under the radar. Yet another lefty. Lol Rich Hill should come cheap as well, but won’t be ready at the start of the season. I believe that Perez is the Price replacement, and that they'll use an opener in the 5th rotation spot.
They'll save something like $14M with the downgrade, and the idea is that they can use some or all of that to get under the tax limit, and maybe some to improve the club and offset the downgrade in the rotation slot.
Going with an opener means adding one or two good bullpen guys who are not limited to one-inning outings. They could sign a guy with a mixed track record and hence demonstrated upside, that they have analytic insight into and project to be good. Another spot could be filled by acquiring several Brasier-2018 types and, with any kind of decent luck between them and the folks already in the system, ending up with a quality arm for the role.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 14, 2019 22:39:40 GMT -5
If we pay 36 million, does it have to be 12 million over three years? Or can we have zero this year and 18 for 2021 and 2022?
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 15, 2019 12:52:01 GMT -5
Kluber trade indicates the return won't be as much as we'd hope for Price, but the Sox can definitely move him. Rangers weren't probably in the mix for Price, so that just made even more competition for whatever quality pitching is left.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 15, 2019 13:02:16 GMT -5
Kluber trade indicates the return won't be as much as we'd hope for Price, but the Sox can definitely move him. Rangers weren't probably in the mix for Price, so that just made even more competition for whatever quality pitching is left. The Rangers gave up a no-name reliever and a bench outfielder for one year of Kluber at $17.5m, and the option to retain him for another year at $18m. I don't see how this is anything but bad news for a Red Sox team looking to move a pitcher who's attached to over four times as much guaranteed salary. Like, the most optimistic interpretation of this is that if the Red Sox pay down Price's salary to the $17-18m a year range, they too can acquire two very mediocre players of no real consequence? This is the future Red Sox fans want?
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Post by texs31 on Dec 15, 2019 13:14:06 GMT -5
Is that true though? If the Sox are willing to get the money right, then you're talking about 3 years of control. That has value (again, assuming they get the money down to a point where the extra yrs aren't seen as a burden).
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Post by Addam603 on Dec 15, 2019 13:25:37 GMT -5
Kluber trade indicates the return won't be as much as we'd hope for Price, but the Sox can definitely move him. Rangers weren't probably in the mix for Price, so that just made even more competition for whatever quality pitching is left. The Rangers gave up a no-name reliever and a bench outfielder for one year of Kluber at $17.5m, and the option to retain him for another year at $18m. I don't see how this is anything but bad news for a Red Sox team looking to move a pitcher who's attached to over four times as much guaranteed salary. Like, the most optimistic interpretation of this is that if the Red Sox pay down Price's salary to the $17-18m a year range, they too can acquire two very mediocre players of no real consequence? This is the future Red Sox fans want? Clase is a hard-throwing arm that is controllable for the next 6 seasons. He showed late inning potential in Texas last year. DeShields is under control for another 3 years as a cheap bench guy with really good speed. Not game changing players, but they’re useful major league players. That being said, the Rangers got a really really good deal here IF Kluber is healthy. We can’t forget that Kluber missed pretty much all of last year and the injuries made him trash when he did pitch.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 15, 2019 13:35:41 GMT -5
Kluber's phenomenal slider may have come at some cost to his arm. Hard to know, but if he is healthy than yes this is a steal.
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Post by Addam603 on Dec 15, 2019 13:36:52 GMT -5
There was no money involved in the Kluber deal so the Rangers are on the hook for the full amount.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 15, 2019 13:36:52 GMT -5
The Rangers gave up a no-name reliever and a bench outfielder for one year of Kluber at $17.5m, and the option to retain him for another year at $18m. I don't see how this is anything but bad news for a Red Sox team looking to move a pitcher who's attached to over four times as much guaranteed salary. Like, the most optimistic interpretation of this is that if the Red Sox pay down Price's salary to the $17-18m a year range, they too can acquire two very mediocre players of no real consequence? This is the future Red Sox fans want? Clase is a hard-throwing arm that is controllable for the next 6 seasons. He showed late inning potential in Texas last year. DeShields is under control for another 3 years as a cheap bench guy with really good speed. Not game changing players, but they’re useful major league players. That being said, the Rangers got a really really good deal here IF Kluber is healthy. We can’t forget that Kluber missed pretty much all of last year and the injuries made him trash when he did pitch. Yeah WAY more uncertainty with Kluber's arm injury. The comparisons aren't that great between both players, but the return for Price shouldn't be tremendous either. I'll take a bad contract and some good prospect starting pitching depth myself.
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Post by jbsox on Dec 15, 2019 14:44:45 GMT -5
Clase is a hard-throwing arm that is controllable for the next 6 seasons. He showed late inning potential in Texas last year. DeShields is under control for another 3 years as a cheap bench guy with really good speed. Not game changing players, but they’re useful major league players. That being said, the Rangers got a really really good deal here IF Kluber is healthy. We can’t forget that Kluber missed pretty much all of last year and the injuries made him trash when he did pitch. Yeah WAY more uncertainty with Kluber's arm injury. The comparisons aren't that great between both players, but the return for Price shouldn't be tremendous either. I'll take a bad contract and some good prospect starting pitching depth myself. If JBJ is also eventually traded maybe a package with the Padres for Margot to slide into cf, and a flyer on a buy low prospect like Espinoza. Lol He may never amount to anything after 2 major surgeries, but maybe we can salvage something. Then we might have some wiggle room under the tax for other moves.
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Post by Addam603 on Dec 15, 2019 15:13:52 GMT -5
There was no money involved in the Kluber deal so the Rangers are on the hook for the full amount. Now they’re saying cash considerations are in play. Money going to the Rangers. EDIT: but basically nothing
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 15, 2019 15:22:00 GMT -5
There was no money involved in the Kluber deal so the Rangers are on the hook for the full amount. Now they’re saying cash considerations are in play. Money going to the Rangers. I would think the cash value going from the Indians to the Rangers is minimal. This was more of a cash dump by the Indians knowing that they might not trade Kluber later if he gets hurt again. Huge risk he does get hurt again and/or becomes completely ineffective due to injuries.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 15, 2019 17:35:19 GMT -5
Madison Bumgardner to Dbacks. Another surprising team that came out of no where to land one of the few options in the market. All that's left is Ryu, Khechul, and then Price.
I think today's trade and signing only ups the Sox chances of getting a more desperate team looking for whatever is left.
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