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Post by cardsox on Feb 6, 2020 14:09:51 GMT -5
I'd prefer the Sox don't get Maeda. I think he's one of those guys whose numbers look ok in those big NL West ballparks. I think he'd get hammered pitching for the Sox. I'd just as soon get prospects that have a potential ceiling. It's not like the Red Sox just downgraded from Betts and Price to Verdugo and whoever and have a better shot than the 50-50 shot they previously had so getting Maeda just to try to stay semi-respectable doesn't make much sense to me. I'd rather see them get a legit prospect instead, but I think they'll opt to keep Graterol as their future closer and take the Twins' comp balance pick.They'll either do that or have the Twins kick in some cash for Price. Maybe both since the goal here isn't to get prospects its to get more money. Honestly this is between Boston and Minnesota, the Sox aren't going to get anything else from LA. Friedman called the bluff and bent the Sox over hard. Any serious thought about May instead of Brusdar or even Downs sent in addition to Brusdar being sent to the Sox is laughable. And if this falls through and completely implodes then 29 other teams will know that the Sox are using their best player to get under the competitive balance tax. So instead of getting 75 cents on the dollar you'll get 30 to 40 cents since this deal will be used as the new baseline.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2020 14:12:40 GMT -5
Call off this deal Henry. F*ck you. Do the right thing.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 6, 2020 14:23:21 GMT -5
There’s a reason Merloni will forever be a Boston radio guy I read the tweet as mocking the people who think the Red Sox didn't know something about Graterol. Of course they knew everything about him that they had access to. Well if it was him being sarcastic, I’m all for it. It wouldn’t shock me if he wasn’t though.
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Post by cardsox on Feb 6, 2020 14:24:11 GMT -5
They'll either do that or have the Twins kick in some cash for Price. Maybe both since the goal here isn't to get prospects its to get more money. Honestly this is between Boston and Minnesota, the Sox aren't going to get anything else from LA. Friedman called the bluff and bent the Sox over hard. Any serious thought about May instead of Brusdar or even Downs sent in addition to Brusdar being sent to the Sox is laughable. And if this falls through and completely implodes then 29 other teams will know that the Sox are using their best player to get under the competitive balance tax. So instead of getting 75 cents on the dollar you'll get 30 to 40 cents since this deal will be used as the new baseline. I disagree that it is on Minn to fix our concerns. Clearly the Dodgers are the big winners in this trade, thus the team wanting it to go through the most. Maybe the Padres see this as a chance to swoop in and improve their offer.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 14:24:11 GMT -5
Call off this deal Henry. F*ck you. Do the right thing. So.....how do you really feel about this deal?
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Post by malynn19 on Feb 6, 2020 14:25:09 GMT -5
Call off this deal Henry. F*ck you. Do the right thing. Language please and it's not 2021 yet...
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 6, 2020 14:27:52 GMT -5
We got damaged goods again :palm: Perhaps we should be congratulating the Twins for not faking the medical records.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 6, 2020 14:29:55 GMT -5
I read the tweet as mocking the people who think the Red Sox didn't know something about Graterol. Of course they knew everything about him that they had access to. Well if it was him being sarcastic, I’m all for it. It wouldn’t shock me if he wasn’t though. " This idea that the Sox didn’t know this is laughable." How I interpret it: This ridiculous idea that some people are floating around about the Red Sox not knowing that he could be a reliever is laughable. He did not say "That the Red Sox didn't know this is laughable." It's not even sarcastic.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2020 14:38:16 GMT -5
So.....how do you really feel about this deal? It's the most stupid move by anyone since The Great F*ck Up. Language please and it's not 2021 yet... Don't look at me, Henry is the one f*cking Red Sox fans.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 6, 2020 14:39:44 GMT -5
Call off this deal Henry. F*ck you. Do the right thing. This deal is the biggest steaming pile I think I’ve seen from the Red Sox since this ownership group took over. From telegraphing that one of the highest revenue teams in baseball was looking to shed salary on the last year of an amazing core that won the World Series just one year before (and three Division championships) on in to this B.S. return and subsidizing Price to the tune of $48M. Just disgusted with the idea behind it, the process and the team now setting themselves up for mediocrity for the next 2-3 years if not more. I’m just done with this deal unless it blows up, in which case I’ll be elated.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2020 14:43:22 GMT -5
I’m just done with this deal unless it blows up, in which case I’ll be elated. Tell me about it. I'm doing my best to not get my hopes up, but it would be so awesome. It might be our last chance to get a player like Mookie in our lifetime.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 6, 2020 14:53:10 GMT -5
This deal is the biggest steaming pile I think I’ve seen from the Red Sox since this ownership group took over. From telegraphing that one of the highest revenue teams in baseball was looking to shed salary on the last year of an amazing core that won the World Series just one year before (and three Division championships) on in to this B.S. return and subsidizing Price to the tune of $48M. Just disgusted with the idea behind it, the process and the team now setting themselves up for mediocrity for the next 2-3 years if not more. I’m just done with this deal unless it blows up, in which case I’ll be elated. In retrospect this really was walking into the car dealership and announcing to every salesman on the floor that you're in a bind and you absolutely need to buy a car today.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 6, 2020 15:02:03 GMT -5
So.....how do you really feel about this deal? It's the most stupid move by anyone since The Great F*ck Up. Language please and it's not 2021 yet... Don't look at me, Henry is the one f*cking Red Sox fans. Hey man. I understand you're upset that Mookie is gone. I do. It's a bummer. But stop being a baby about it. It's a game. It's not the end of the world. I love seeing all of the different analysis of the ways this trade could turn out and the cap implications of the deal but if you're just going to keep whining and whining in the same way over and over again, just stop talking. Honestly, it's way more annoying than anything the Red Sox have done.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2020 15:12:27 GMT -5
Hey man. I understand you're upset that Mookie is gone. I do. It's a bummer. But stop being a baby about it. It's a game. It's not the end of the world. I love seeing all of the different analysis of the ways this trade could turn out and the cap implications of the deal but if you're just going to keep whining and whining in the same way over and over again, just stop talking. Honestly, it's way more annoying than anything the Red Sox have done. I'm sorry man, I'm old school. I enjoy the game for guys like Mookie, not guys like Henry. I think your priorities are in the wrong place if my posts are more annoying than dumping one of the franchise's best players EVER for "payroll flexibility". This deal is inexcusable.
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 6, 2020 15:34:58 GMT -5
I've been a reader of SoxProspects going back to the great "ARod to RedSox" debacle. ARod was my favorite player and I watched that trade just become a cluster. So now we are watching another great player in a potential trade involving the Red Sox. My take on all of this is the following: The trade is being made because Dombrowski did a Dombrowski. I live in Michigan and watched him build a great team with Tigers but strip them of prospects and depth. He does things HIS way, which means high payroll and low prospects to supplement the payroll so we can keep players like Betts or chase closers like needed last year. Right or wrong (he did win a world series with us under a great great team). But you can not sustain that in this atmosphere that is current MLB. Price was the best player on the market at the time and he deemed him a must get. He saw Sale as a must get and signed him at high cost. He saw JD as a must have and Euvaldi as a must have. But the depth guys were older and costly also. He didn't look to take risks around the edges and give younger players shots (see Sandy Leon). Or at the time trade Jackie Bradley in the Sale trade instead of Kopech (who could be our young controlled starter this year). I remember Bradley was looked at and he refused to part with him with Moncada. So now Betts is in a must lose situation (we aren't going to sign him for $35 million over 12 years). And Price is struggling so we have to get rid of his salary to rebuild the depth needed under the current MLB agreement. Do I like the return of Grateral?? Not at all. I'm hoping they somehow end up with Gray who I remember reading last year (albeit when he was hot) but he could be BETTER than May or Buehler. Or if we could engage them in Kiriloff somehow...that would be huge. This trade won't play out for another 1-2 years. Does another supplemental pick do it for me?? eh...maybe if you include a lower level prospect from Dodgers also...say their first rounder from last year or Cartaga (sp?) Their young catcher. When added up after that...Verdugo, Grateral, supplemental pick, Cartago, payroll space to do a LOT with including going after Springer or Osuna or Bauer or ..... It's not bad. Think next year when you could have this payroll space plus Jackie Bradley plus JD...that's upwards of $45 million to spend not counting the possibility that Euvaldi does well and they deal him off and Pedroa off the books. It's not a bad spot to be in...ESPECIALLY if our prospects of A+ and AA depth can show they could contribute at the major league level to replace some of those players. THAT'S where Dombrowski's style of leadership failed us over long haul and why he's no longer here...in my belief
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 15:45:50 GMT -5
I've been a reader of SoxProspects going back to the great "ARod to RedSox" debacle. ARod was my favorite player and I watched that trade just become a cluster. So now we are watching another great player in a potential trade involving the Red Sox. My take on all of this is the following: The trade is being made because Dombrowski did a Dombrowski. I live in Michigan and watched him build a great team with Tigers but strip them of prospects and depth. He does things HIS way, which means high payroll and low prospects to supplement the payroll so we can keep players like Betts or chase closers like needed last year. Right or wrong (he did win a world series with us under a great great team). But you can not sustain that in this atmosphere that is current MLB. Price was the best player on the market at the time and he deemed him a must get. He saw Sale as a must get and signed him at high cost. He saw JD as a must have and Euvaldi as a must have. But the depth guys were older and costly also. He didn't look to take risks around the edges and give younger players shots (see Sandy Leon). Or at the time trade Jackie Bradley in the Sale trade instead of Kopech (who could be our young controlled starter this year). I remember Bradley was looked at and he refused to part with him with Moncada. So now Betts is in a must lose situation (we aren't going to sign him for $35 million over 12 years). And Price is struggling so we have to get rid of his salary to rebuild the depth needed under the current MLB agreement. Do I like the return of Grateral?? Not at all. I'm hoping they somehow end up with Gray who I remember reading last year (albeit when he was hot) but he could be BETTER than May or Buehler. Or if we could engage them in Kiriloff somehow...that would be huge. This trade won't play out for another 1-2 years. Does another supplemental pick do it for me?? eh...maybe if you include a lower level prospect from Dodgers also...say their first rounder from last year or Cartaga (sp?) Their young catcher. When added up after that...Verdugo, Grateral, supplemental pick, Cartago, payroll space to do a LOT with including going after Springer or Osuna or Bauer or ..... It's not bad. Think next year when you could have this payroll space plus Jackie Bradley plus JD...that's upwards of $45 million to spend not counting the possibility that Euvaldi does well and they deal him off and Pedroa off the books. It's not a bad spot to be in...ESPECIALLY if our prospects of A+ and AA depth can show they could contribute at the major league level to replace some of those players. THAT'S where Dombrowski's style of leadership failed us over long haul and why he's no longer here...in my belief Welcome aboard. And what's interesting to me was reading how Dombrowski and Henry were clashing just about as soon as the parade was over in how they were going to proceed which begs the question why were the Eovaldi deal and Sale pre-signing signed off on by Henry and Co. I would guess at some point there was also the marginalization of the four key FO members like Romero, Ferreia, O'Halloran, and Zach Scott while insulating himself with only LaRussa and Wren as his braintrust. All those factored in I'm sure to perhaps Henry signs off on it (why again?) but says if this fails he's out on his ears and by September it was obvious it had and he was out. I can't come down to hard on Dombrowski because of the championship and because normally the guys he dealt away didn't bite them. Only Moncada has really been a difference maker, but they got Sale in that deal. You weren't getting Sale without Moncada. But the issues why he's gone are showing now. The failure to make the little moves. The great equalization of not being in a good draft position, yet the Dodgers have seem to have done alright despite their low draft pick status, so I'm not sure what gives there.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 6, 2020 15:45:53 GMT -5
Hey man. I understand you're upset that Mookie is gone. I do. It's a bummer. But stop being a baby about it. It's a game. It's not the end of the world. I love seeing all of the different analysis of the ways this trade could turn out and the cap implications of the deal but if you're just going to keep whining and whining in the same way over and over again, just stop talking. Honestly, it's way more annoying than anything the Red Sox have done. I'm sorry man, I'm old school. I enjoy the game for guys like Mookie, not guys like Henry. I think your priorities are in the wrong place if my posts are more annoying than dumping one of the franchise's best players EVER for "payroll flexibility". This deal is inexcusable. I'm not happy they traded him and I certainly put most of the blame on Henry but I just have enough common sense to know that crying and whining about it isn't going to get anything done and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. You do whatever you want to do but it's obnoxious and I laughed out loud when you chalked it up to being "old school".
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 6, 2020 15:46:25 GMT -5
For what it's worth, on his podcast the other day, Buster Olney said that back when Dombrowski was fired, he talked to people around baseball that he thought the Sox would be interested in hiring that flat out told him they didn't want the job for several reasons:
1. They already knew that the Red Sox would have to cut payroll during the winter. Henry's talk about getting under the CBT threshold might have been news to fans, but it seemed to be pretty common knowledge around the game.
2. They also knew that they'd have to trade Mookie Betts, and that it wouldn't be popular with the fans.
3. They didn't think that either ownership or the fans would have enough patience to allow the franchise to be rebuilt on the fly.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2020 15:47:31 GMT -5
I'm not happy they traded him and I certainly put most of the blame on Henry but I just have enough common sense to know that crying and whining about it isn't going to get anything done and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. You do whatever you want to do but it's obnoxious and I laughed out loud when you chalked it up to being "old school". If it helps you in anyway, people treating this as anything but an unmitigated catastrophe also annoy me greatly.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 6, 2020 15:50:24 GMT -5
I'm not happy they traded him and I certainly put most of the blame on Henry but I just have enough common sense to know that crying and whining about it isn't going to get anything done and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. You do whatever you want to do but it's obnoxious and I laughed out loud when you chalked it up to being "old school". If it helps you in anyway, people treating this as anything but an unmitigated catastrophe also annoy me greatly. I'm sorry that me realizing there are other more important things than what my favorite sports team does is annoying. I'll try to rely on brainless petulance more often if it's pleasing to you. Mookie's gone, and it sucks. Everyone is going to miss having him on the team and it's frustrating that Henry basically pulled the trigger on it to avoid the tax. But there's a difference between taking a step back and objectively analyzing the trade and saying "okay, this is a sad situation but if Bloom and Co. can work some magic next offseason there's a lot of room for this team to emerge as a strong contender in 2021", which is in my opinion the most rational response (and judging from the podcast Chris and Ian would agree), I think you'd be a whole lot happier than you would crying and complaining aimlessly the way that you are.
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Post by soxfan2015 on Feb 6, 2020 15:50:57 GMT -5
Call off this deal Henry. F*ck you. Do the right thing. can you explain why you are upset with Henry? Because he wants to be like every other team in baseball and not go over the main luxury tax 3 years in a row? He’s spoiled you with 4 World Series titles while spending just as much as any team. This is ridiculous
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Post by soxfan2015 on Feb 6, 2020 15:54:36 GMT -5
I'm not happy they traded him and I certainly put most of the blame on Henry but I just have enough common sense to know that crying and whining about it isn't going to get anything done and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. You do whatever you want to do but it's obnoxious and I laughed out loud when you chalked it up to being "old school". If it helps you in anyway, people treating this as anything but an unmitigated catastrophe also annoy me greatly. I hope you get your wish and the Red Sox give Mookie 420 million dollars and can’t give anyone else out there any money. Goodbye devers and Martinez and benintedi. But giving Mookie 420 million is the right thing to do! This team has no other holes that can fill that 420 million with
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 6, 2020 15:58:05 GMT -5
I agree that Dombrowski shouldn't have been allowed to make signings he did, especially the Sale extension. However, that's not how Henry runs his team. He's kinda hands off until he has to be hands on...which is usually to late. As far as I'm concerned a GM that doesn't want to walk into the Red Sox because they have to trade payroll to clean up the mess isn't worth being a GM. He wants a quality situation handed to him..not a quality ownership, city, and belief he can build from there. So glad we didn't get a GM like that. Moving on..the point is given where we were (needing to shed payroll and get ride of Price or someone with high payroll)...this trade doesn't seem horrible IF we can add something of value to it AND use the payroll space smarter than Dombrowski did in the past. But for those crying...it was going to happen. Either now, in June, or at end of the season....Betts was going to be gone due to payroll constraints. This seems like a better fit than then and right or wrong I don't feel we were winning this year with what little flexibility we had an depth we have. We could still make the playoffs as a wild card or contend for that spot, but honestly I don't think Mookie Betts swings that one way or another (and yes he's great, but one great player doesn't affect a playoff run as much as depth and pitching does..pitching depth of which we really are struggling to have). Let's hope Bloom doesn't put us in same spot Dombrowski did...and personally I can say he messed up because he only saw right in front of him...not two or three steps in front. When your responsible for leading the franchise forward...you need to look 2 and 3 steps ahead...EXACTLY like Bloom is doing with this trade.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 6, 2020 16:11:27 GMT -5
If the trade Has to be reworked I demand another emergency Podcast Deal
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2020 16:11:53 GMT -5
I'm sorry that me realizing there are other more important things than what my favorite sports team does is annoying. I'll try to rely on brainless petulance more often if it's pleasing to you. Mookie's gone, and it sucks. Everyone is going to miss having him on the team and it's frustrating that Henry basically pulled the trigger on it to avoid the tax. But there's a difference between taking a step back and objectively analyzing the trade and saying "okay, this is a sad situation but if Bloom and Co. can work some magic next offseason there's a lot of room for this team to emerge as a strong contender in 2021", which is in my opinion the most rational response (and judging from the podcast Chris and Ian would agree), I think you'd be a whole lot happier than you would crying and complaining aimlessly the way that you are. Friend, where do you think we are? This is an enthusiast board, like we're all here because we really like baseball and it's a nice place to talk about the sport as a community. At the end of the day, it is just sports talk. After I post this, I'll get off the computer and eat something because I'm getting hungry. Then I'll just go on with my day, maybe watch some basketball later. The 6ers are playing the Bucks and I always enjoy watching them get demolished. On and on like a regular. However, I don't share your mindset that it's possible to talk about this like an inevitability. So yeah, while I'm here I'll talk about this passionately because I feel strongly about it. It's a bad mistake, you're giving up too much. You're giving up one of the best players of all time because you feel like your (still pretty good) pitcher is overpaid. It wasn't inevitable, there's nothing stopping the ownership from just gutting this one out and paying the tax. Are they bleeding money? Are the Red Sox not profitable? Did they absolutely have to do this or otherwise they'd go bankrupt? The answer to all of those questions are "no". I get that it's unrealistic to expect Henry to do what no other owner has done and just keep the payroll sky high. But if there ever was a core in baseball that warranted that kind of attitude, it was this Red Sox. So no, there was no NEED to do this trade. Henry could have kept the core together, he chose not to do it. It is what it is. But it f*cking sucks.
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