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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 6, 2020 10:51:53 GMT -5
To the best of my recollection, the Yankees have won numerous baseball games as well as several championships despite their severely flawed strategy of giving a lot of money to the best players.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 10:55:27 GMT -5
This is either really bad spin based on all the pushback on the deal that now has Sox saying they “didn’t know” Grateroll’s injury history or that is 95% more likely to be a reliever (um, Fangraphs, Baseball-Reference) or Bloom should be fired for not doing his homework/settling just to move Price now (with all that cash) instead of waiting til the All Star break/Trade deadline. The incompetence continues, either way. Yeah, or you know, the guy with a past history of arm problems simply failed his physical It’s not that deep dude
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 6, 2020 11:00:09 GMT -5
The Yankees have a had similar issues with large contracts, but Cashman always has seems to have depth to cover himself and the Red Sox have had several years where they simply haven’t. I think since 2000 the Red Sox have done better to capitalize on opportunity when they had a chance to win it all, but the Yankees are consistently in the playoff race more than any other team so I find it really hard to slander them for the way they manage their roster.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 11:01:36 GMT -5
The Yankees have a had similar issues with large contracts, but Cashman always has seems to have depth to cover himself and the Red Sox have had several years where they simply haven’t. I think since 2000 the Red Sox have done better to capitalize on opportunity when they had a chance to win it all, but the Yankees are consistently in the playoff race more than any other team so I find it really hard to slander them for the way they manage their roster. Cashman also reset and that’s why they are where they are now- positioned for a long run of success
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Post by julyanmorley on Feb 6, 2020 11:05:46 GMT -5
Dealing with Maeda's incentive-laden contract while inching towards the luxury tax limit sounds like a bad time.
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Post by malynn19 on Feb 6, 2020 11:14:11 GMT -5
To the best of my recollection, the Yankees have won numerous baseball games as well as several championships despite their severely flawed strategy of giving a lot of money to the best players. Yeah that was in the 1990s and they did give a ton of money to 3 very good players in 2009 and won. But ever since nothing. And they are back at it now and maybe it will work but I rather have our ownership than theirs.
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Post by malynn19 on Feb 6, 2020 11:18:25 GMT -5
The Yankees have a had similar issues with large contracts, but Cashman always has seems to have depth to cover himself and the Red Sox have had several years where they simply haven’t. I think since 2000 the Red Sox have done better to capitalize on opportunity when they had a chance to win it all, but the Yankees are consistently in the playoff race more than any other team so I find it really hard to slander them for the way they manage their roster. Cashman also reset and that’s why they are where they are now- positioned for a long run of success Some luck too, Judge and Severino (thanks Pedro..) exceeded all expectations (so far) and they got Stanton for a medicine ball and 2 Big Macs. Not to mention that Epstein deal for Chapman.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 11:34:14 GMT -5
To the best of my recollection, the Yankees have won numerous baseball games as well as several championships despite their severely flawed strategy of giving a lot of money to the best players. Yeah that was in the 1990s and they did give a ton of money to 3 very good players in 2009 and won. But ever since nothing. And they are back at it now and maybe it will work but I rather have our ownership than theirs. The Yankees have done fine since their dynasty ended. If you look at their cumulative won/loss record you'd be hard-pressed to find another team with a better record. But like the Dodgers the past seven years, even though they've done most everything right, they don't have the flags flying to prove it. So the Yankees are winning as often as they ever did - a consistent .570ish clip, but they haven't converted that to many championships. Which I suppose is an evening of the odds. They almost always won in the post-season in that 1996 - 2001 era. Once upon a time the Red Sox couldn't win a World Series for 86 years, then all of a sudden four appearances, four quick championships, unlike the previous four that were spaced much further out and ended in 7 game tragedies. So the way the Yankees are doing business has been highly successful. They haven't had the peaks and valleys that the Sox have had the past two decades. They and the Dodgers are doing things the best way in my opinion - they just don't have the championships to show for it (not that I have a problem with that, although I'm rooting like hell for the Dodgers this year - you'd hope that a FO that does a good a job and uses resources as wisely would be rewarded with the ultimate prize. It just doesn't work out that way. I remember thinking that when Marge Schott was accepting the 1990 World Series trophy.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Feb 6, 2020 11:41:28 GMT -5
This is either really bad spin based on all the pushback on the deal that now has Sox saying they “didn’t know” Grateroll’s injury history or that is 95% more likely to be a reliever (um, Fangraphs, Baseball-Reference) or Bloom should be fired for not doing his homework/settling just to move Price now (with all that cash) instead of waiting til the All Star break/Trade deadline. The incompetence continues, either way. There is a difference between not being able to be a starter because of the scouting on your third pitch and not being able to be a starter because of what your xrays and mris look like. And I hope nobody in our front office is reliable on any website get scouting reports.
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 11:43:13 GMT -5
I keep think of Anderson Espinosa for Pomeranz. I liked that trade and still do. An all star major leaguer for a young but somewhat advanced prospect. And it was a win... Pom had one quite good year, AE is looking grim.
Now we give a guy who is light years better than Pom for a guy who doesn’t profile as well as AE. Besides those basic facts, I remain against the principle. Pitchers with years of development ahead are too risky. You have to have growth through innings while also having them stay healthy. Either of those things don’t happen, you can be left with nothing.
Even in this context, I’d much prefer an advanced pitcher and a low-level OF, not the reverse.
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Post by malynn19 on Feb 6, 2020 11:45:28 GMT -5
Yeah that was in the 1990s and they did give a ton of money to 3 very good players in 2009 and won. But ever since nothing. And they are back at it now and maybe it will work but I rather have our ownership than theirs. The Yankees have done fine since their dynasty ended. If you look at their cumulative won/loss record you'd be hard-pressed to find another team with a better record. But like the Dodgers the past seven years, even though they've done most everything right, they don't have the flags flying to prove it. So the Yankees are winning as often as they ever did - a consistent .570ish clip, but they haven't converted that to many championships. Which I suppose is an evening of the odds. They almost always won in the post-season in that 1996 - 2001 era. Once upon a time the Red Sox couldn't win a World Series for 86 years, then all of a sudden four appearances, four quick championships, unlike the previous four that were spaced much further out and ended in 7 game tragedies. So the way the Yankees are doing business has been highly successful. They haven't had the peaks and valleys that the Sox have had the past two decades. They and the Dodgers are doing things the best way in my opinion - they just don't have the championships to show for it (not that I have a problem with that, although I'm rooting like hell for the Dodgers this year - you'd hope that a FO that does a good a job and uses resources as wisely would be rewarded with the ultimate prize. It just doesn't work out that way. I remember thinking that when Marge Schott was accepting the 1990 World Series trophy. Never said the Yankees were not successful, they are, money remedies a lot of mistakes. But unlike in years past they can't just bully the comp with just money, especially in the AL East. And that's thanks to this ownership group. My only gripe with Henry was the way they treated Tito and Theo, and letting them go. I think we would of had more than 4 Chips with them.
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Post by incandenza on Feb 6, 2020 12:08:49 GMT -5
To the best of my recollection, the Yankees have won numerous baseball games as well as several championships despite their severely flawed strategy of giving a lot of money to the best players. But irritatingly, they're also well-run these days - they've totally fleeced other teams in trades and seem to have some of the best player development and analytics in the game. They really have hobbled themselves at various points by owing dead money to the likes of AlexRod and Teixeira.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 6, 2020 12:09:32 GMT -5
I was just thinking the same thing. Ask for Maeda and a lottery ticket, then either flip him or trade Eduardo for a better prospect haul. I'd be pretty happy to keep Maeda - he's a good pitcher, and his low AAV might enable to them to take on someone else's bad contract to enhance a prospect package. His eight-year contract was for less guaranteed money total than Price's AAV. His incentives would basically max out at somewhere near $11.5M. Not bad idea keeping Maeda, and then flipping Erod for a better prospect package. Erod is going to get expensive in a couple years. Maybe go back to the Padres and see what you can do. I personally would much rather pay E-Rod $20 mil per year and have whatever prospect package ends up coming back (whether that's Graterol plus someone or just a different prospect) than take on Maeda who, even if he's cheap, isn't... that... good? I feel like I'm missing something here because he's certainly cheap but I'd rather pay for a good pitcher who still theoretically has some development left than pay a little bit for a not good pitcher who is already 31.
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 12:13:12 GMT -5
Taking Maeda would make this even more catastrophic. I’d rather keep Price and trade, say, JBJ to save money. But they are going to a near-.500 team this year. What does Maeda do for them? And why take on the risk of an anticipated flip?
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Post by Guidas on Feb 6, 2020 12:32:51 GMT -5
This is either really bad spin based on all the pushback on the deal that now has Sox saying they “didn’t know” Grateroll’s injury history or that is 95% more likely to be a reliever (um, Fangraphs, Baseball-Reference) or Bloom should be fired for not doing his homework/settling just to move Price now (with all that cash) instead of waiting til the All Star break/Trade deadline. The incompetence continues, either way. What homework was Bloom supposed to do exactly? The physical IS the homework. The part where nearly everyone says he profiles as a reliever, but somehow the team was envisioning him as a starter.
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 12:41:37 GMT -5
So... question. What in a medical would have you think a pitcher goes from starter to reliever? If it is an injury (partial tear in elbow?) then a reliever can get hurt, too. If it is some structural abnormality that suggests an inability to sustain a heavy workload, well, that is peculiar.
My point is... if there is something wrong with a guy, simply saying he is now more likely a reliever is weird. Wasn’t this what happened with Papelbon? I forget the details, but wasn’t there a physical reason he couldn’t start?
And... do they mean forever? Or does he gave a condition that he needs to overcome to return to starting?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 6, 2020 12:42:53 GMT -5
What homework was Bloom supposed to do exactly? The physical IS the homework. The part where nearly everyone says he profiles as a reliever, but somehow the team was envisioning him as a starter. Again, saying it's bad and seeing it's bad are two separate things. Gronk had a bad back and was still the greatest tight end to ever play football. David Price still has an elbow concern, but he's pitched through it just fine. Edit: Point is, they probably thought it was a manageable injury and found out it's worse than they previously imagined.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 12:44:55 GMT -5
What homework was Bloom supposed to do exactly? The physical IS the homework. The part where nearly everyone says he profiles as a reliever, but somehow the team was envisioning him as a starter. Plenty of places had him as a mid rotation/possible #2
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Post by soxin8 on Feb 6, 2020 12:50:43 GMT -5
EDIT: Now that I think about it, there’s no reason that Los Angeles couldn’t just keep Graterol anyways and send a different prospect so that’s an option too. [/quote]
I like Addam's suggestion to let LA keep Graterol (don't they always need bullpen help in the playoffs?) and send us Gray or Gonsolin. From the Twins, I would be surprised if the Sox accepted the comp pick. I think they would look for someone who could help sooner. Balazovic looks like a good starting prospect but he is two years away.
The Twins could also just add a player like Larnach, Rooker, or Duran (wouldn't it be great to have another Duran?) but I don't know that they would go that far.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 13:04:07 GMT -5
Yeah I was looking at Duran myself
Profile seems pretty intriguing
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Post by Guidas on Feb 6, 2020 13:29:56 GMT -5
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 6, 2020 13:40:42 GMT -5
This is so stupid. That's clearly not what the Sox didn't know. They didn't know the full details of the medical report which, and I can't stress this enough, they would have no reason to since teams don't just let other teams access that stuff freely. We're "not sure" Mata will be a starter in the future. Or Groome. Hell, we don't know if Michael Kopech is going to stick as a starter yet. He's a prospect, no one is "sure" of anything. If he's relatively healthy he has a solid chance at starting and if not then he at least has the stuff to be a pretty dominant reliever, which is a higher floor than most guys with his ceiling have.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 6, 2020 13:44:55 GMT -5
This is so stupid. That's clearly not what the Sox didn't know. They didn't know the full details of the medical report which, and I can't stress this enough, they would have no reason to since teams don't just let other teams access that stuff freely. We're "not sure" Mata will be a starter in the future. Or Groome. Hell, we don't know if Michael Kopech is going to stick as a starter yet. He's a prospect, no one is "sure" of anything. If he's relatively healthy he has a solid chance at starting and if not then he at least has the stuff to be a pretty dominant reliever, which is a higher floor than most guys with his ceiling have. There’s a reason Merloni will forever be a Boston radio guy
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 6, 2020 14:00:51 GMT -5
This is so stupid. That's clearly not what the Sox didn't know. They didn't know the full details of the medical report which, and I can't stress this enough, they would have no reason to since teams don't just let other teams access that stuff freely. We're "not sure" Mata will be a starter in the future. Or Groome. Hell, we don't know if Michael Kopech is going to stick as a starter yet. He's a prospect, no one is "sure" of anything. If he's relatively healthy he has a solid chance at starting and if not then he at least has the stuff to be a pretty dominant reliever, which is a higher floor than most guys with his ceiling have. There’s a reason Merloni will forever be a Boston radio guy I read the tweet as mocking the people who think the Red Sox didn't know something about Graterol. Of course they knew everything about him that they had access to.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 6, 2020 14:02:30 GMT -5
We got damaged goods again :palm:
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