|
Post by Don Caballero on Feb 6, 2020 19:22:04 GMT -5
So after watching last year your good with the same team they had last year? Because if they sign Mookie to this extension they can’t fill any other holes for awhile. If you want to give Mookie 420 million to be on a losing team every year you’ve got some weird thinking. But at least Mookie would be a Red Sox for life on a team that tops the luxury tax every year right! Mookie should have been an easy Red Sox for life and if paying the luxury tax is what takes to get it, then let's do it! You eventually have other guys coming out of the payroll as well, you guys are not being very flexible on the flexibility angle. Are you telling me that the only way John Henry wouldn't have to sell the team because it no longer makes money is getting rid of Mookie and Price?
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Feb 6, 2020 19:22:59 GMT -5
I was going through a couple of ESPN+ stories on the deal today, and there were some reoccurring themes. I'll link to the articles if you have a subscription... Joon Lee: Why Red Sox fans are angry about the Mookie Betts trade -- and why they shouldn't be www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28626763/why-red-sox-fans-angry-mookie-betts-trade-why-beBuster Olney: Here's what's next for Red Sox after trading Mookie Betts, David Price www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/28607225/here-next-red-sox-trading-mookie-betts-david-price"Once Boston's primary rivals got the ace they needed, and once the Red Sox lost their most important staffer, the Red Sox situation gained clarity: It's going to be a year of turnover, the crossroad to the next big thing." Bradford Doolittle and David Schoenfeld: Did the Los Angeles Dodgers just win the winter? How bad is this for the Boston Red Sox? Grading the Mookie Betts trade www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/28601321/did-los-angeles-dodgers-just-win-winter-how-bad-the-boston-red-sox-grading-mookie-betts-tradeFor what it's worth, one of them gave the Red Sox a B+ on the deal and said his biggest beef with the deal was the idea that the Red Sox were punting on a season in which they had a chance to make the postseason, but acknowledged the team has "questions" and conceded that management saw those questions as well. The other writer gave Bloom an A. Said he could easily see Verdugo becoming a 4-5 WAR player and that Graterol has the kind of arm that the Red Sox should be taking a chance with. Kiley McDaniel: The great Mookie irony: How the Red Sox are actually copying the Dodgers www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/28641130/the-great-mookie-irony-how-red-sox-actually-copying-dodgers"A dozen cheap years of strong contributors -- split between outfielder Alex Verdugo and pitcher Brusdar Graterol -- is a solid return for one year of an elite player and dumping a bad contract, even if it hurts for Boston to officially commit to the opposite of the Dave Dombrowski approach to team building." This was my favorite article. It talks about how the ultimate goal is to become more of a perennial contender that doesn't experience the extreme ups and downs that the Red Sox have gone through over the past 15+ years. Moving forward, the focus will be on taking a sound approach to payroll/roster flexibility, depth, and building the farm system. They feel that this trade will kick start a change of direction away from the Dave Dombrowski model towards the Andrew Friedman model. And that's what I think it came down to. In Chaim Bloom's mind, beginning the process of building a sustainable winner was more important than fielding the best possible team they can in 2020. I would contend that the Red Sox have had these ups and downs even though their picks in the draft are relatively the same as the Dodgers, is because, since about 2007, the Red Sox have been horrible at finding - either through trades, drafts or intl signings -and developing starting pitcher prospects who are better than #4/5 starters, if that. This has been a glaring flaw and has led to these high dollar signings of starters who are 30 or older - Beckett, Lackey, Sale, Price among these - at high AAVs, and which is extremely often a bad, long term strategy. This team has done virtually nothing to address this. I don’t mean they haven’t tried, but they have yet to produce results from their efforts.
|
|
|
Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 6, 2020 20:45:08 GMT -5
Passan doesn't think Mookie is coming back next year either. Mentions the Giants and Dodgers. Giants you almost forget about, but spend just as much as anyone when competitive. Makes a lot of sense to sign a 28 year old Mookie in a rebuild.
|
|
|
Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 6, 2020 20:47:57 GMT -5
Throw in Downs. I always loved a Verdugo, Downs, and risky but upside pitcher deal. Would love Downs, but I think it should be Gonsolin. The point of this deal was for the Sox to get a controllable starter with some upside. That completely flipped when Graterol couldn't start immediately.
|
|
|
Post by chr31ter on Feb 6, 2020 21:14:47 GMT -5
Holy crap...
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,688
|
Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 21:20:53 GMT -5
I’m here to watch the world burn
This trade not going through is wayyyyy worse for those two teams than it is for us. Price is getting paid and def doesn’t care we tried to trade him, mookies a free agent wanting to get paid. Can’t say the same for any of the guys in this deal or the Joc trade other than Joc
And now they know their org tried to move them. Can’t feel great!
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 6, 2020 21:26:26 GMT -5
Im not an expert on negotiating but we can also go back to the Padres. Hello Wil Myers!
|
|
|
Post by chr31ter on Feb 6, 2020 21:40:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2020 21:41:34 GMT -5
Alright, I have the solution to the problem!!
The Sox should keep Graterol. What they should do is substitute Jackie Bradley Jr. in the deal for Mookie Betts! That should do the trick!!
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 6, 2020 21:45:41 GMT -5
Im not an expert on negotiating but we can also go back to the Padres. Hello Wil Myers! After 7 years as a major leaguer, Myers has accumulated less than 10 WAR. He was in negative territory last year and he costs $22.5 million in 2020. How about if SD pays his entire salary and pays the Sox a few million more to take him?
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 6, 2020 21:49:02 GMT -5
So we’re going to take a bad deal still. Salary dumping is the priority over maximizing return. Got it.
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 6, 2020 21:51:00 GMT -5
Im not an expert on negotiating but we can also go back to the Padres. Hello Wil Myers! After 7 years as a major leaguer, Myers has accumulated less than 10 WAR. He was in negative territory last year and he costs $22.5 million in 2020. How about if SD pays his entire salary and pays the Sox a few million more to take him?Id rather take the hit, move back in the draft and get a better package. We can get under the luxury tax later. Maybe Price will have a great Spring and we can still deal him for a better deal later.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 21:53:47 GMT -5
Im not an expert on negotiating but we can also go back to the Padres. Hello Wil Myers! If this was a ploy to make me happier about Myers, it worked.
|
|
|
Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 6, 2020 21:54:34 GMT -5
We have the leverage here, if Bloom wants to play hardball we could walk away. Hope he doesn’t try to act in good faith and accepts damaged goods without being compensated for the risk we are taking.
A few ideas I’d be cool with:
1. Graterol goes to the Dodgers and we get May instead 2. Twins give us their competitive balance draft pick and the Dodgers throw in a lottery ticket who we like 3. We get Downs and the Twins send their competitive balance pick to LA 4. Graterol goes to the Dodgers and we get Gonsolin and Ruiz.
Something along those lines; we failed in the original attempt and were given a second chance, we need to get it right this time or be prepared to walk away from the table. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don’t make.
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Feb 6, 2020 21:57:25 GMT -5
We have the leverage here, if Bloom wants to play hardball we could walk away. Hope he doesn’t try to act in good faith and accepts damaged goods without being compensated for the risk we are taking. A few ideas I’d be cool with: 1. Graterol goes to the Dodgers and we get May instead 2. Twins give us their competitive balance draft pick and the Dodgers throw in a lottery ticket who we like 3. We get Downs and the Twins send their competitive balance pick to LA 4. Graterol goes to the Dodgers and we get Gonsolin and Ruiz. Something along those lines; we failed in the original attempt and were given a second chance, we need to get it right this time or be prepared to walk away from the table. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don’t make. I like the cut of your jib
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 6, 2020 21:57:32 GMT -5
Dodgers seem to have the mindset that this is between Boston and Minnesota. They aren't altering their deal at all. See if Falvey will give an upper tier SP prospect too.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,688
|
Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 22:03:35 GMT -5
I wouldn’t get your hopes up, I don’t think they can justify throwing too much on top of Graterol for Maeda
Maybe the pick? Hopefully a high upside guy like Jhoan Duran? We do need to replace Jhon Nunez’s name
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 6, 2020 22:10:49 GMT -5
I miss Dealin’ Dave
|
|
|
Post by lennsakata on Feb 6, 2020 22:11:20 GMT -5
I wouldn’t get your hopes up, I don’t think they can justify throwing too much on top of Graterol for Maeda Maybe the pick? Hopefully a high upside guy like Jhoan Duran? We do need to replace Jhon Nunez’s name You went with the Jhon play instead of the Duran Duran in Portland joke?
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Feb 6, 2020 22:12:26 GMT -5
The guy responsible for this mess? Yeah, miss that guy.
|
|
|
Post by chr31ter on Feb 6, 2020 22:12:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 6, 2020 22:15:36 GMT -5
The guy responsible for this mess? Yeah, miss that guy. I was joking. Haha. The Myers line was also a joke. But seriously, who cares about a draft pick we might not even have moving back ten spots. Keep Price, leave LA and Minny high and dry and ship Mookie out to SD for as much as you can get.
|
|
bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
|
Post by bosox on Feb 6, 2020 22:16:23 GMT -5
I wouldn’t get your hopes up, I don’t think they can justify throwing too much on top of Graterol for Maeda Maybe the pick? Hopefully a high upside guy like Jhoan Duran? We do need to replace Jhon Nunez’s name Duran would be a good pickup. I would think the Dodgers could assist to finish the deal since it may be a little awkward for them with Maeda, Verdugo, Stripling and Peterson knowing they were traded but not.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,688
|
Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 22:18:14 GMT -5
We now have 1000 names to guess from boys!
|
|
|
Post by orion09 on Feb 6, 2020 22:18:51 GMT -5
How about the Dodgers get some damn skin in the game and trade one of THEIR prospects?
|
|