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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 9, 2020 14:44:02 GMT -5
Your definitely not wrong. Thats what I envisioned as well, but part of me thinks they are more likely to land a big FA. I have Lux being a 2b and them going for a big time SS, but its an interchangeable situation. The Dodgers are in such a good position with an incredible ball club with young studs, and yet they are just as loaded in the minors. Enviable situation for sure. I felt like the Sox were the same when we had Kopech, Devers, Espinosa, Margot, Moncada, Benintendi etc. in the minors with a great young club Yeah, you would hope the Red Sox would win multiple with that group from the minors...but I don't think anyone in their right mind wouldn't trade that group for one guaranteed WS title. Definitely not. It killed me to lose any of them. Didn't we, as far as trading that group for 1 WS? Trading Espinosa at that time was close. We got some great players in return (Sale for example), but we did overpay using these guys with short term intentions. I hear it a lot where people will say any package is worth a WS. I'm just not that type in the least. I probably covet prospects a little higher than most, but I just have a hard time sacrificing a week of fun for a one night thrill.
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Post by redsox3in10 on Feb 9, 2020 14:47:16 GMT -5
The media apparently thinks this is all our fault. It certainly gains more clicks to blame the Red Sox at least.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 9, 2020 14:48:16 GMT -5
Boy why don't we add Devers already to sweeten the deal. Hahahaha. Why would the Dodgers even consider taking Devers when he was OBVIOUSLY earmarked for a DH only role (yes joke about Graterol comments lol).
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 14:48:34 GMT -5
Not rescinding the Pomeranz trade when given the option was negligence on Dombrowski’s part in my view. That was a travesty.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 9, 2020 14:50:03 GMT -5
I’m not feeling too confident about the end result of this deal. The Dodgers getting Graterol+ for Maeda is a hell of a deal for them.
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Post by sibbysisti on Feb 9, 2020 14:55:11 GMT -5
With all the press about Bloom’s success with the Rays, a lot was expected of Him when he signed here. True, he faced a huge challenge in reducing payroll, but the way he has performed is something short of a disaster. His handling of the Betts saga is an embarrassment for the administration. And failing to name a manager with ST opening this week is inexcusable. Henry/Werner’s failure to do due diligence on their President of baseball operations is as bad as their choice’s subsequent failures after his hire. Let’s see how the Betts trade turns out before we crucify Bloom. I’d also like to see how he drafts, who else is acquired, how his acquisitions perform and so on. I think it is only fair to give the guy a chance before we bury him. They’re waiting to name a manager until the MLB determines what disciplinary action will be taken. I suppose that’s to make a clean break with the issue and to re-focus on the future. I’m willing to wait until I see how the Betts trade works out. Guess I have no choice, right? What I’m saying is that Bloom has gotten off to a terrible start in his first few months in the organization. This Betts trade so far is a fiasco, not something you would expect from someone who came here with a good reputation. It’s already a public relations nightmare. The return is underwhelming to say the least. Wouldn’t it be better to take Price out of the deal and getting more prospects from L.A.? Then let him show his effectiveness before trading him at the TD to acquire more prospects.Sox still get under the luxury tax threshold.
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Post by swingingbunt on Feb 9, 2020 14:56:38 GMT -5
Not rescinding the Pomeranz trade when given the option was negligence on Dombrowski’s part in my view. That was a travesty. Travesty? How so when Pom ended up having better health than the guy we traded away?
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,018
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 9, 2020 15:00:59 GMT -5
I think that others have probably pointed out that Enrique Hernandez would be a very good fit for the Sox for one year, as a RH hitter who can play CF and RF and also be in the 2B mix. It would be a name that fans would recognize, too. Maybe him and Gray instead of Graterol ... Gray isn't as highly rated as the version of Graterol who projects to have a good shot at staying healthy (which is apparently what the Twins and Dodgers see), but at least he's in the same class, as a guy with an above-average SP ceiling.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 9, 2020 15:01:01 GMT -5
Not rescinding the Pomeranz trade when given the option was negligence on Dombrowski’s part in my view. That was a travesty. Travesty? How so when Pom ended up having better health than the guy we traded away? Using hindsight? Sure. At the time of the trade Espinoza was a highly-touted prospect with his value at it’s highest. Certainly could have used his value at that time to acquire somebody else.
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Post by taftreign on Feb 9, 2020 15:03:46 GMT -5
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 9, 2020 15:08:43 GMT -5
Let’s see how the Betts trade turns out before we crucify Bloom. I’d also like to see how he drafts, who else is acquired, how his acquisitions perform and so on. I think it is only fair to give the guy a chance before we bury him. They’re waiting to name a manager until the MLB determines what disciplinary action will be taken. I suppose that’s to make a clean break with the issue and to re-focus on the future. I’m willing to wait until I see how the Betts trade works out. Guess I have no choice, right? What I’m saying is that Bloom has gotten off to a terrible start in his first few months in the organization. This Betts trade so far is a fiasco, not something you would expect from someone who came here with a good reputation. It’s already a public relations nightmare. The return is underwhelming to say the least. Wouldn’t it be better to take Price out of the deal and getting more prospects from L.A.? Then let him show his effectiveness before trading him at the TD to acquire more prospects.Sox still get under the luxury tax threshold. To each his own, but I like how Bloom has done things. He took a position for one of the most demanding and unforgiving clubs, he has had to get things done immediately, has to deal with the manager situation, and was tasked with a difficult job getting below the cap. So many ravenous fans are on him about trading our best player, but he is doing the right thing for the ball club. This IS the smartest move needing to get under cap, rebuild the farm, and put together a competitive team. Must suck when your first mission is to trade the 2nd best player in baseball when your trying to establish a name for yourself. Price is one of the most important parts of this entire trade. They wouldn't remove him. The value is massive. Getting below the cap is key, and Price is how its done. Waiting till the deadline is an option, but too risky. He gets hurt then no team would touch his contract. Then we are back at square one luxury tax wise. I think Betts has highest value now (arguable though), and Price's highest would be mid year...but again Price's value is in contract dump not returns
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 9, 2020 15:28:57 GMT -5
The return is below what other execs thought we’d get. Not impressed with Bloom so far but we’ll see I guess. He has a bit of a mandate which doesn’t help. And I've read other execs are quite impressed with the return for 1 year of Betts and getting out from under Price's contract
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Post by sibbysisti on Feb 9, 2020 15:30:47 GMT -5
If getting below the “cap” is key, wouldn’t they have already done that with Betts(-27,000,000)? So it’s so important to get $42,000,000? Can’t see it. This whole trade was made into a huge public relations boondoggle by Bloom. Almost has me longing for Larry Lucchino.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 9, 2020 15:34:53 GMT -5
If getting below the “cap” is key, wouldn’t they have already done that with Betts(-27,000,000)? So it’s so important to get $42,000,000? Can’t see it. This whole trade was made into a huge public relations boondoggle by Bloom. Almost has me longing for Larry Lucchino. How so?
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,840
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Post by steveofbradenton on Feb 9, 2020 15:35:32 GMT -5
Boy some of you are really tough on Bloom. I'm actually quite impressed. Wait until you see what the final results are, will you!! Some of you really deserve a Shaunausey. We are on the right track. This had to be done. We will be OK. Take a deep breath, and put down the knife.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 15:36:03 GMT -5
Or the Bull case is that we could’ve dealt just Mookie now and traded Price as a separate piece later after he proves himself this Spring.
The goal should be the highest prospect return to kick start a rebuild, not dumping as much of Price’s deal as possible.
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Post by soxcentral on Feb 9, 2020 15:43:31 GMT -5
The return is below what other execs thought we’d get. Not impressed with Bloom so far but we’ll see I guess. He has a bit of a mandate which doesn’t help. And I've read other execs are quite impressed with the return for 1 year of Betts and getting out from under Price's contract Yeah if we can get two cost-controlled, talented young players its about as much as you could hope for. Maybe a good way to to look at it is in comparison to the Chris Sale trade. We gave Chicago two good young players (Moncada, Kopech) that would be somewhat similar to a Verdugo/SP package if that's what it ends up being. We ended up having to add in 2 lottery ticket types that so far have amounted to nothing, but that was for 3 years of control to acquire a consensus Top 2-3 pitcher in the game. So if we get about the same, minus the lottery tickets, for 1 year of Betts and can get out from under Price's deal that's a win.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 15:43:50 GMT -5
Or the Bull case is that we could’ve dealt just Mookie now and traded Price as a separate piece later after he proves himself this Spring. The goal should be the highest prospect return to kick start a rebuild, not dumping as much of Price’s deal as possible. I'm pissed they were in this position to begin with. They shouldn't have to trade Mookie Betts. They should be looking to pay him market value and keeping him the centerpiece of the team. They knew this day was going to come at some point. They should have planned better so that they could have ducked under and not put Bloom in a position of having to trade Betts with everybody knowing that he had to. So, no this is not on Bloom. All that's on Bloom is to get the best package possible and not get totally ripped off.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 15:51:52 GMT -5
Im in the rare group that is totally fine with trading Betts. My issue is selling low on Price to save ownership money.
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Post by Gwell55 on Feb 9, 2020 15:54:23 GMT -5
Or the Bull case is that we could’ve dealt just Mookie now and traded Price as a separate piece later after he proves himself this Spring. The goal should be the highest prospect return to kick start a rebuild, not dumping as much of Price’s deal as possible. Lets see now if Maeda is gone doesn't that make Price a lot more valuable to LA and they don't have him to fill in the hole yet.
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Post by mainesox on Feb 9, 2020 15:55:34 GMT -5
Im in the rare group that is totally fine with trading Betts. My issue is selling low on Price to save ownership money. It's only selling low on Price if you assume his value is going to go up. There's a real possibility that he's hurt and/or ineffective again this season and his value continues to go down.
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Post by grangerdanger413 on Feb 9, 2020 15:57:03 GMT -5
(First post here on these forums, hello)
I hope the Sox can pry Gonsolin/Gray from the Dodgers, or even just not get Verdugo and just try and grab May and a lottery ticket. The pitching is what’s killing us and we’re going to be left with a hole in RF yes, but with us being under the luxury tax(by about 14-16 mil I believe?)We could grab a guy on a one year deal and then try and resign Mookie in the offseason or Springer even. I’m torn on this though, cause I like both Verdugo and May a lot. Only reason I would rather have May is because our offense is miles better than our pitching. I guess we’ll see what they do.
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Post by grangerdanger413 on Feb 9, 2020 16:00:27 GMT -5
Im in the rare group that is totally fine with trading Betts. My issue is selling low on Price to save ownership money. I agree with this as well. If Mookie was going to leave anyways why not try and get something for him. Could be an Aroldis Chapman scenario (maybe). On one hand I’m glad they finally could unload at least half of that massive DP contract but WHY did it have to be with Mookie. I would sell price for a frickin double cheeseburger if I had to. It’s unfortunate that that is diminishing the return because without him in the deal I believe May AND one of the prospects mentioned might even have ended up here. Or maybe Verdugo and two of the names.
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dd
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Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Feb 9, 2020 16:05:31 GMT -5
Heyman is reporting that talks between the Sox and Dodgers are progressing. I think we'll see the trade completed today, pending medicals for the new piece(s) of the deal. I think I've heard this said in this thread 100 times in the last few weeks!!!
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 16:05:32 GMT -5
Im in the rare group that is totally fine with trading Betts. My issue is selling low on Price to save ownership money. It's only selling low on Price if you assume his value is going to go up. There's a real possibility that he's hurt and/or ineffective again this season and his value continues to go down. I do believe his value will go up. He was hurt at the end of last year and view it as more likely then not his value will increase. I hate putting Price in there to decrease the Mookie return.
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