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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by 07redsox on Feb 9, 2020 13:19:54 GMT -5
They’re saying its still Graterol. Crap. Who is they? Everything I have seen says that he is still involved, but going to the Dodgers most likely. Then the Dodgers trade other prospects to the Sox. Edit: I believe that is what the Star Tribune information is referencing as well.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 9, 2020 13:20:43 GMT -5
They’re saying its still Graterol. Crap. Who is they? Everything I have seen says that he is still involved, but going to the Dodgers most likely. Then the Dodgers trade other prospects to the Sox. I'm fine with Graderol Verdugo and another top 10 prospect.
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2020 13:20:51 GMT -5
They’re saying its still Graterol. Crap. Not necessarily bad if something else is added. Depends on the something else. I would far rather scrap it than say “the A prospect we thought we were getting is a B, so give us one more B/C guy.”
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 9, 2020 13:25:21 GMT -5
Any thoughts on what else LA could be sending now that the Graterol-to-Boston portion of the deal seems to be dead? Still hoping for Verdugo and something like Gonsolin/Gray + Downs/Ruiz.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 13:25:50 GMT -5
The return is below what other execs thought we’d get. Not impressed with Bloom so far but we’ll see I guess. He has a bit of a mandate which doesn’t help.
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Post by soxjim on Feb 9, 2020 13:28:12 GMT -5
From what I was hearing from a Dodgers insider on MLB Network, the Dodgers plan on optioning May and Gonsolin, while using Urias and Wood in the rotation for the last two spots. Gonsolin might be their number 7 starter. Its confusing to me why their hoarding their starters. The Dodgers could also have more of a need for a Graterol if he's exclusively a reliever. They need to get this deal done and give up some of that starting depth. The Sox are working on 4 starters to start the year. They know exactly what the Sox need. Kershaw, Price, Wood and Urias all come with injury risks. Optimizing your 40 to have incredible depth and making sure your top pitchers maximize their bullets is a great move and one Boston should emulate. Sure to some extent. On the flip side maybe they need to be more aggressive and trade some depth? What's it been- one title in 40 years? Dave D traded prospects and won in 3. As a fan I'm okay with some down years if it means winning championships. The Sox have won 4 in 16. Who has been better? The Dodgers can brag that they have depth and win their divisions. As a Red Sox fan I can brag that the Sox have won the most championships in these 16.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 9, 2020 13:29:42 GMT -5
Would love Urias, but the Dodgers seemingly have him penciled into the rotation next year. He's probably the youngest guy with the highest ceiling, including Dustin May. They would have Kershaw, Buehler, and Price penciled into the top 3 spots and they're zealously guarding May, Gonsolin and Urias - three guys for two spots, while they have Ferguson and Wood as depth and Gray on the way. At some point you'd think they'd have to part with somebody. They can't be that stingy and expect to come away with Betts and Price, can they? This is exactly why I asked about Urias! In my head I was putting together what LA has now, and what is coming in soon. They hold Kershaw, Buehler, Price, Gonsolin, Urias, May, Gray, and other starters. Depth is fantastic, and I get that, but its interesting they are so stubborn to lose a SP prospect (considering what they would be receiving in return). They had to put guys in the bullpen last year because the rotation was so filled out, and they will be doing the same this season. It will be interesting to see how this goes. I wonder if the Dodgers may consider this.... Trade straight up with the Twins: Maeda for Graterol and lesser prospect. Dodgers Trade: Pederson and Stripling for LAA prospect (same as before) Redsox get: Verdugo, Gonsolin/Gray, Jeter Downs and/or possibly mid level prospect (possibly the lesser Twins prospect to LAD Dodgers get: Betts, Price w/ cash, Brusdar Graterol (to help with upgrade of SP prospect to Sox). This way they get the upside of Graterol, but take on the more risky prospect. His projection to bullpen would probably be loved by Dodgers. In the end the Twins would also be on the hook for about the same package as promised.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 13:35:46 GMT -5
They would have Kershaw, Buehler, and Price penciled into the top 3 spots and they're zealously guarding May, Gonsolin and Urias - three guys for two spots, while they have Ferguson and Wood as depth and Gray on the way. At some point you'd think they'd have to part with somebody. They can't be that stingy and expect to come away with Betts and Price, can they? This is exactly why I asked about Urias! In my head I was putting together what LA has now, and what is coming in soon. They hold Kershaw, Buehler, Price, Gonsolin, Urias, May, Gray, and other starters. Depth is fantastic, and I get that, but its interesting they are so stubborn to lose a SP prospect (considering what they would be receiving in return). They had to put guys in the bullpen last year because the rotation was so filled out, and they will be doing the same this season. It will be interesting to see how this goes. I wonder if the Dodgers may consider this.... Trade straight up with the Twins: Maeda for Graterol and lesser prospect. Dodgers Trade: Pederson and Stripling for LAA prospect (same as before) Redsox get: Verdugo, Gonsolin/Gray, Jeter Downs and/or possibly mid level prospect (possibly the lesser Twins prospect to LAD Dodgers get: Betts, Price w/ cash, Brusdar Graterol (to help with upgrade of SP prospect to Sox). This way they get the upside of Graterol, but take on the more risky prospect. His projection to bullpen would probably be loved by Dodgers. In the end the Twins would also be on the hook for about the same package as promised. That's kind of what I was hoping they wind up with, but as jimoh said, he wants dinner with Gillian Anderson, meaning it's quite nice to wish for things. Hate to say it, but I agree with him. I don't see the Sox getting the strong pitching prospect and a legit guy like Downs, who they can use. I mean the Dodgers have Seager and Lux for up the middle. The Sox could certainly use a 2b!!
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Post by chr31ter on Feb 9, 2020 13:41:52 GMT -5
The return is below what other execs thought we’d get. Not impressed with Bloom so far but we’ll see I guess. He has a bit of a mandate which doesn’t help. Huh???
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 9, 2020 13:45:58 GMT -5
This is exactly why I asked about Urias! In my head I was putting together what LA has now, and what is coming in soon. They hold Kershaw, Buehler, Price, Gonsolin, Urias, May, Gray, and other starters. Depth is fantastic, and I get that, but its interesting they are so stubborn to lose a SP prospect (considering what they would be receiving in return). They had to put guys in the bullpen last year because the rotation was so filled out, and they will be doing the same this season. It will be interesting to see how this goes. I wonder if the Dodgers may consider this.... Trade straight up with the Twins: Maeda for Graterol and lesser prospect. Dodgers Trade: Pederson and Stripling for LAA prospect (same as before) Redsox get: Verdugo, Gonsolin/Gray, Jeter Downs and/or possibly mid level prospect (possibly the lesser Twins prospect to LAD Dodgers get: Betts, Price w/ cash, Brusdar Graterol (to help with upgrade of SP prospect to Sox). This way they get the upside of Graterol, but take on the more risky prospect. His projection to bullpen would probably be loved by Dodgers. In the end the Twins would also be on the hook for about the same package as promised. That's kind of what I was hoping they wind up with, but as jimoh said, he wants dinner with Gillian Anderson, meaning it's quite nice to wish for things. Hate to say it, but I agree with him. I don't see the Sox getting the strong pitching prospect and a legit guy like Downs, who they can use. I mean the Dodgers have Seager and Lux for up the middle. The Sox could certainly use a 2b!! Very true! Wishful thinking would make this a fair trade on all sides, but doubt it will play out. SP and MI are big depth areas for the Dodgers, and I know we need 2b. Peraza could surprise too I guess. Anyways, the only reason Downs was thrown in was because they recently had acquired him...meaning they could POSSIBLY be less attached to him than some other guys the drafted themselves. However, it could go the other way where they absolutely loved him in the draft. My point is ultimately that our need for a 2b may come into play, Downs or otherwise. The package I did propose just seemed like the least friction across 4 teams. Two basically end up with the same package as promised. The Dodgers have to bite the bullet a bit, but Graterols upside hasn't changed. So getting a top pitching prospect along with their superstars may help wiggle a higher end SP loose for us.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 9, 2020 13:49:53 GMT -5
Pretty sure the Dodgers thinking is that Turner will soon be gone. They can shift Seager to 3B, Lux at SS and Downs at 2B. Makes sense.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,139
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Post by jimoh on Feb 9, 2020 13:50:27 GMT -5
Dodgers with all their SP prospects (even if they give us one) are on a perfect position to keep and value Graterol even if his upside is Papelpon and his downside is his arm falling off
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Post by tomhouse on Feb 9, 2020 13:54:04 GMT -5
Edwar Colina?
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 9, 2020 13:56:23 GMT -5
Pretty sure the Dodgers thinking is that Turner will soon be gone. They can shift Seager to 3B, Lux at SS and Downs at 2B. Makes sense. Your definitely not wrong. Thats what I envisioned as well, but part of me thinks they are more likely to land a big FA. I have Lux being a 2b and them going for a big time SS, but its an interchangeable situation. The Dodgers are in such a good position with an incredible ball club with young studs, and yet they are just as loaded in the minors. Enviable situation for sure. I felt like the Sox were the same when we had Kopech, Devers, Espinosa, Margot, Moncada, Benintendi etc. in the minors with a great young club
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 14:00:19 GMT -5
NM. I'm wrong.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 9, 2020 14:21:55 GMT -5
Pretty sure the Dodgers thinking is that Turner will soon be gone. They can shift Seager to 3B, Lux at SS and Downs at 2B. Makes sense. Your definitely not wrong. Thats what I envisioned as well, but part of me thinks they are more likely to land a big FA. I have Lux being a 2b and them going for a big time SS, but its an interchangeable situation. The Dodgers are in such a good position with an incredible ball club with young studs, and yet they are just as loaded in the minors. Enviable situation for sure. I felt like the Sox were the same when we had Kopech, Devers, Espinosa, Margot, Moncada, Benintendi etc. in the minors with a great young club Yeah, you would hope the Red Sox would win multiple with that group from the minors...but I don't think anyone in their right mind wouldn't trade that group for one guaranteed WS title.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 9, 2020 14:22:26 GMT -5
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Post by stevedillard on Feb 9, 2020 14:26:35 GMT -5
I will be interested if Bloom needs a pitcher, in which case the inclusion of another prospect to LA might make them able to free up Gonsolin or Gray, or if the Sox want the "best" prospect, regardless of position (Jeter Downs).
Did LA put Gray and Gonsolin off limits, but with a keeping Graterol, they are now fee to release them?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 14:27:36 GMT -5
Great trade by the Dodgers there. Wouldn't be surprised to see Graterol take over as closer for Jansen at some point soon. He could well be the Dodgers' version of Papelbon and they most certainly use a guy like that for their pen. He could even be the guy on the mound closing out the Dodgers' World Championship.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 14:29:40 GMT -5
I will be interested if Bloom needs a pitcher, in which case the inclusion of another prospect to LA might make them able to free up Gonsolin or Gray, or if the Sox want the "best" prospect, regardless of position (Jeter Downs). Did LA put Gray and Gonsolin off limits, but with a keeping Graterol, they are now fee to release them? I was thinking what if the Sox included Dalbec? He'd be a good candidate to take 3b over for LA soon and Downs could take over 2b for the Sox at some point soon. And of course the Sox would take a starting pitcher from LA as well.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 9, 2020 14:30:54 GMT -5
Boy why don't we add Devers already to sweeten the deal.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 9, 2020 14:35:20 GMT -5
I will be interested if Bloom needs a pitcher, in which case the inclusion of another prospect to LA might make them able to free up Gonsolin or Gray, or if the Sox want the "best" prospect, regardless of position (Jeter Downs). Did LA put Gray and Gonsolin off limits, but with a keeping Graterol, they are now fee to release them? I'm curious too. I'd love find out what their position is with their prospects. I suppose the way to play smart is to make a bunch of players untouchable, but really your just posturing. The Dodgers probably do have them marked as off limits, but I would think a large part of that is philosophy. Aka make a rule to not trade X for 1 year players. Then the list expands slightly based on multiple factors (Mookie 2 years worth X, 1 year worth less so these guys are untouchable etc). I have to think their truly untouchable player is Lux.
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Post by stevedillard on Feb 9, 2020 14:36:24 GMT -5
I will be interested if Bloom needs a pitcher, in which case the inclusion of another prospect to LA might make them able to free up Gonsolin or Gray, or if the Sox want the "best" prospect, regardless of position (Jeter Downs). Did LA put Gray and Gonsolin off limits, but with a keeping Graterol, they are now fee to release them? I was thinking what if the Sox included Dalbec? He'd be a good candidate to take 3b over for LA soon and Downs could take over 2b for the Sox at some point soon. And of course the Sox would take a starting pitcher from LA as well. But on some level I assume you are getting a prospect you want, not just the "value" of that prospect. The Dodgers either like Gonsolin/Gray/Downs, not not. It's not that you can say "we like him 87%, so we need another prospect to make up the 13%. They're not all just fungible, like "graterol has injury so we need anotehr outside of top-10 prospect to make up the difference. It's pretty binary, you either like him or not.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 14:42:05 GMT -5
I was thinking what if the Sox included Dalbec? He'd be a good candidate to take 3b over for LA soon and Downs could take over 2b for the Sox at some point soon. And of course the Sox would take a starting pitcher from LA as well. But on some level I assume you are getting a prospect you want, not just the "value" of that prospect. The Dodgers either like Gonsolin/Gray/Downs, not not. It's not that you can say "we like him 87%, so we need another prospect to make up the 13%. They're not all just fungible, like "graterol has injury so we need anotehr outside of top-10 prospect to make up the difference. It's pretty binary, you either like him or not. I understand what you're saying but don't think they're going to get the equivalent of what they thought they had in Graterol. I don't believe May is coming Boston's way and I don't think Gonsolin is either. Instead of a dime, they're probably going to have to take two nickels.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 14:42:46 GMT -5
The media apparently thinks this is all our fault.
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