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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 9, 2020 11:17:13 GMT -5
Alex Speier also reporting that there is "increased confidence" that the deal will be completed as two separate deals (LAD-MIN and LAD-BOS) rather than a true three-way trade. Guess that means that Graterol isn't going to the Red Sox.
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Post by mainesox on Feb 9, 2020 11:27:53 GMT -5
Can't figure out how to embed tweets, but he also tweeted: In current talks, #MNTwins are working hard to satisfy #Dodgers and the Dodgers are working hard to satisfy #RedSox, sources say. Two separate deals are possible (for example, Graterol-plus for Maeda and Verdugo and others for Betts/Price). But all three teams involved in talks. FYI, just posting a tweet link should embed them automatically. And it's been a really long time mainesox, welcome back! Thanks, I don't know if it's because I'm using my phone, but that didn't seem to work for me. And thank you, it has been a very long time, life has gotten in the way (getting married, buying a house, changing jobs, and a baby on the way), but it's good to be back.
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2020 11:30:12 GMT -5
That’s fine, and it is true people couldn’t know the medical issues, but that did not seem to be the issue for many of us who hated the deal before the pause even took effect. That there is a medical issue, though, is one of the things I hate about getting a single raw pitching prospect for your #2 starter and best player. Look at the ER and/or career graveyard of pitching prospects that gave come and go just with the Sox in recent years: Webster, de la Rosa, Espinosa, Kopech.... I might even be forgetting some. Kopech looks to be ok in the long run, but still. Basically, Graterol has to a) stay healthy, b) develop another pitch , and c) end up no less than a #3 starter for this to be a good haul. I don’t think it is ridiculous for many of us to hate the odds on all three of those things. All the way back to the Pomeranz trade I have been in favor of trading raw pitchers for MLB talent because of the risks involved. Let other teams take the risks, invest in field talent in the minors, get pitchers later. Worked with Pedro, Schilling, Sale, etc. People should stick to the logical arguments then, instead of lashing out in ridiculous childish ways. BTW, ERod worked out. I haven’t been following illogical arguments, but there seems to be unnecessary venom both ways. ERod seems to have worked out. Not all pitchers are lemons. True. Of course, I like the model ERod resulted from: Sox picked up castoff Andrew Miller for nothing, made him an elite pitcher.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 9, 2020 11:32:32 GMT -5
FYI, just posting a tweet link should embed them automatically. And it's been a really long time mainesox , welcome back! Thanks, I don't know if it's because I'm using my phone, but that didn't seem to work for me. And thank you, it has been a very long time, life has gotten in the way (getting married, buying a house, changing jobs, and a baby on the way), but it's good to be back. Congrats on all of that!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,684
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Post by cdj on Feb 9, 2020 11:42:38 GMT -5
The Twins were planning on using Graterol as a reliever. That makes sense given his delivery motion, history of arm and shoulder problems, and being significantly overweight. He missed two months last season due to injuries. All this information is publicly available. Why would the Red Sox think he could be a starter? Not a good start for Bloom and his scouting staff. Lolololol Your post became an absolute joke when you said he’s significantly overweight, there’s video of him playing last year. You know that right? Marble-sharp
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 9, 2020 11:49:55 GMT -5
Anyone think that the Dodgers could value their prospects over Julio Urias? I would love if they could get him somehow. Urias has had some medical issues, but he is still a no question starter. It would be interesting to see if they may pull back Verdugo but consider Urias and a lower OF prospect. Would love Urias, but the Dodgers seemingly have him penciled into the rotation next year. He's probably the youngest guy with the highest ceiling, including Dustin May.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 11:55:38 GMT -5
Anyone think that the Dodgers could value their prospects over Julio Urias? I would love if they could get him somehow. Urias has had some medical issues, but he is still a no question starter. It would be interesting to see if they may pull back Verdugo but consider Urias and a lower OF prospect. Would love Urias, but the Dodgers seemingly have him penciled into the rotation next year. He's probably the youngest guy with the highest ceiling, including Dustin May. They would have Kershaw, Buehler, and Price penciled into the top 3 spots and they're zealously guarding May, Gonsolin and Urias - three guys for two spots, while they have Ferguson and Wood as depth and Gray on the way. At some point you'd think they'd have to part with somebody. They can't be that stingy and expect to come away with Betts and Price, can they?
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Feb 9, 2020 11:56:22 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 12:00:23 GMT -5
He'd be going to LA for Maeda and staying there. Even if he is a reliever, he's somebody the Dodgers can totally use. It is their bullpen that is their biggest achilles heel. This kid, even if he can't start, can potentially be a shutdown closer, and that's exactly what LA needs, more than the Red Sox do (not that the Red Sox couldn't use a potential closer, but given where the Sox are where LA is) - he's much more valuabe to LA.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 9, 2020 12:08:57 GMT -5
Would love Urias, but the Dodgers seemingly have him penciled into the rotation next year. He's probably the youngest guy with the highest ceiling, including Dustin May. They would have Kershaw, Buehler, and Price penciled into the top 3 spots and they're zealously guarding May, Gonsolin and Urias - three guys for two spots, while they have Ferguson and Wood as depth and Gray on the way. At some point you'd think they'd have to part with somebody. They can't be that stingy and expect to come away with Betts and Price, can they? From what I was hearing from a Dodgers insider on MLB Network, the Dodgers plan on optioning May and Gonsolin, while using Urias and Wood in the rotation for the last two spots. Gonsolin might be their number 7 starter. Its confusing to me why their hoarding their starters. The Dodgers could also have more of a need for a Graterol if he's exclusively a reliever. They need to get this deal done and give up some of that starting depth. The Sox are working on 4 starters to start the year. They know exactly what the Sox need.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 12:11:43 GMT -5
They would have Kershaw, Buehler, and Price penciled into the top 3 spots and they're zealously guarding May, Gonsolin and Urias - three guys for two spots, while they have Ferguson and Wood as depth and Gray on the way. At some point you'd think they'd have to part with somebody. They can't be that stingy and expect to come away with Betts and Price, can they? From what I was hearing from a Dodgers insider on MLB Network, the Dodgers plan on optioning May and Gonsolin, while using Urias and Wood in the rotation for the last two spots. Gonsolin might be their number 7 starter. Its confusing to me why their hoarding their starters. The Dodgers could also have more of a need for a Graterol if he's exclusively a reliever. They need to get this deal done and give up some of that starting depth. The Sox are working on 4 starters to start the year. They know exactly what the Sox need. If they did do that, they'd be doing that to protect service time. I'd expect May and/or Gonsolin to be up by May 1st.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Feb 9, 2020 12:13:05 GMT -5
They would have Kershaw, Buehler, and Price penciled into the top 3 spots and they're zealously guarding May, Gonsolin and Urias - three guys for two spots, while they have Ferguson and Wood as depth and Gray on the way. At some point you'd think they'd have to part with somebody. They can't be that stingy and expect to come away with Betts and Price, can they? From what I was hearing from a Dodgers insider on MLB Network, the Dodgers plan on optioning May and Gonsolin, while using Urias and Wood in the rotation for the last two spots. Gonsolin might be their number 7 starter. Its confusing to me why their hoarding their starters. The Dodgers could also have more of a need for a Graterol if he's exclusively a reliever. They need to get this deal done and give up some of that starting depth. The Sox are working on 4 starters to start the year. They know exactly what the Sox need. Kershaw, Price, Wood and Urias all come with injury risks. Optimizing your 40 to have incredible depth and making sure your top pitchers maximize their bullets is a great move and one Boston should emulate.
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Post by soxjim on Feb 9, 2020 12:18:43 GMT -5
The Twins were planning on using Graterol as a reliever. That makes sense given his delivery motion, history of arm and shoulder problems, and being significantly overweight. He missed two months last season due to injuries. All this information is publicly available. Why would the Red Sox think he could be a starter? Not a good start for Bloom and his scouting staff. Am I missing something? The Red Sox nixed the deal. Who cares what they were thinking? It's who you get that counts. Who knows maybe they wanted to see the medicals rather than assume? Is that so bad?
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Post by julyanmorley on Feb 9, 2020 12:18:58 GMT -5
In retrospect, the Graterol part of the trade seems like a classic example of adverse selection. The Dodgers and Red Sox canvassed the league trying to find teams willing to add a top 100 prospect to this deal, and the only bite they got was a guy with medical red flags that the team was trying to keep quiet.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,684
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Post by cdj on Feb 9, 2020 12:19:06 GMT -5
I get the dodgers hoarding starters. We are talking about a potential rotation that has Kershaw, Price, Urias, and Alex Wood in it.
Not exactly the best at staying on the field.
I’m also not the biggest fan of Urias as a person.
If people were mad about Verdugo wait til what they would be like if we got somebody who actually “allegedly” laid hands on a woman (a witness saw him shove a woman down, the woman claimed he did not, charges dropped. Knowing how this dynamic often works I tend to believe the witness).
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 9, 2020 12:19:53 GMT -5
From what I was hearing from a Dodgers insider on MLB Network, the Dodgers plan on optioning May and Gonsolin, while using Urias and Wood in the rotation for the last two spots. Gonsolin might be their number 7 starter. Its confusing to me why their hoarding their starters. The Dodgers could also have more of a need for a Graterol if he's exclusively a reliever. They need to get this deal done and give up some of that starting depth. The Sox are working on 4 starters to start the year. They know exactly what the Sox need. Kershaw, Price, Wood and Urias all come with injury risks. Optimizing your 40 to have incredible depth and making sure your top pitchers maximize their bullets is a great move and one Boston should emulate. Yes, even without Gonsolin, they'd still have 3 starters beyond that 5 man rotation.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2020 12:23:23 GMT -5
From what I was hearing from a Dodgers insider on MLB Network, the Dodgers plan on optioning May and Gonsolin, while using Urias and Wood in the rotation for the last two spots. Gonsolin might be their number 7 starter. Its confusing to me why their hoarding their starters. The Dodgers could also have more of a need for a Graterol if he's exclusively a reliever. They need to get this deal done and give up some of that starting depth. The Sox are working on 4 starters to the year. They know exactly what the Sox need. Kershaw, Price, Wood and Urias all come with injury risks. Optimizing your 40 to have incredible depth and making sure your top pitchers maximize their bullets is a great move and one Boston should emulate. Hope the Sox have options that good someday. It's nice to be able to develop starting pitching to have those options and help avoid the mess the Sox find themselves in today, the need to spend big $ or always have to trade for starting pitching.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Feb 9, 2020 12:24:00 GMT -5
I get the dodgers hoarding starters. We are talking about a potential rotation that has Kershaw, Price, Urias, and Alex Wood in it. Not exactly the best at staying on the field. I’m also not the biggest fan of Urias as a person. If people were mad about Verdugo wait til what they would be like if we got somebody who actually “allegedly” laid hands on a woman (a witness saw him shove a woman down, the woman claimed he did not, charges dropped. Knowing how this dynamic often works I tend to believe the witness). Those claims are enough to nix his addition. And if you have concerns about Graterol's shoulder then Urias medical history must be an immediate no go as he's already had labrum surgery.
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2020 12:45:00 GMT -5
I get the dodgers hoarding starters. We are talking about a potential rotation that has Kershaw, Price, Urias, and Alex Wood in it. Not exactly the best at staying on the field. I’m also not the biggest fan of Urias as a person. If people were mad about Verdugo wait til what they would be like if we got somebody who actually “allegedly” laid hands on a woman (a witness saw him shove a woman down, the woman claimed he did not, charges dropped. Knowing how this dynamic often works I tend to believe the witness). Those claims are enough to nix his addition. And if you have concerns about Graterol's shoulder then Urias medical history must be an immediate no go as he's already had labrum surgery. Careful! If you question their character you are going to get shut down. After all, it is not like violence against women is sign stealing. Cora? Out. Guys with shady histories? Come on down! Edit: by the way, Urias was in the hotel with Verdugo. I bet Baldwin is available.
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 9, 2020 12:59:34 GMT -5
With Graterol no longer likely coming to Boston, this could up the return for the Sox by a little.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 13:15:00 GMT -5
They’re saying its still Graterol. Crap.
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Post by redsox3in10 on Feb 9, 2020 13:16:32 GMT -5
They’re saying its still Graterol. Crap. Not necessarily bad if something else is added. Depends on the something else.
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Post by orion09 on Feb 9, 2020 13:17:13 GMT -5
They’re saying its still Graterol. Crap. Who? Sources?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 9, 2020 13:18:28 GMT -5
According to that Star Tribune. Speier is saying its unlikely to be Graterol though. So who knows?!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,684
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Post by cdj on Feb 9, 2020 13:19:43 GMT -5
I remember when the trade broke and everybody was like SENZEL AND VERDUGO???
I like how our expectations have come down lol
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