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2013 Non-Sox MLB Discussion
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 8, 2013 19:30:03 GMT -5
Nah, they just tend to dismiss anything they can't explain with math. As opposed to the traditionalists who dismiss math when it goes against things they want to be true. I think they are much the same.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 8, 2013 19:38:43 GMT -5
Well, for starters Bonds was better. Than anybody. Ever.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 8, 2013 19:49:10 GMT -5
Watching the St. Louis/LA game on tv and ours on the computer. Who the heck is this Carlos Martinez for the pitching for the Cardinals? Said we signed him. But, MLB voided contract because of wrong name. They sign him a year later. Now he's in the bigs 3 years later and throwing 98-99. WTF? Why weren't we allowed to sign him with correct name? Curious about the background with him.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 8, 2013 19:49:23 GMT -5
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Post by pedroelgrande on Aug 8, 2013 19:54:29 GMT -5
Watching the St. Louis/LA game on tv and ours on the computer. Who the heck is this Carlos Martinez for the Dodgers? Said we signed him. But, MLB voided contract because of wrong name. They sign him a year later. Now he's in the bigs 3 years later and throwing 98-99. WTF? Why weren't we allowed to sign him with correct name? Curious about the background with him. The Red Sox signed him as a light hiting SS with the name Carlos matias...the deal was not approved he worked with a buscon on pitching then a Cardinals scout saw him worked on his paper work and signed him for a million dollars...I believe that's how more or less it happened.
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Post by sammo420 on Aug 8, 2013 20:06:28 GMT -5
Well, for starters Bonds was better. You're doing things that you can't here. If you try to predict a 100% drug free and healthy Bonds vs. a 100% healthy and drug free Ken Griffey Jr. I'd still take Griffey Jr. but we can't do that so it comes down to the whole cheating thing which will inevitably open up a can of worms in this thread that I'll wish it hadn't.
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Post by mantush on Aug 8, 2013 21:10:55 GMT -5
Baseball would be more interesting if pitchers were striking out three hundred guys or if hitters were hitting fifty plus home runs a season. I grew up during the "steroid era," and I do not at all feel robbed by Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, Sosa, or anyone else that has used steroids. If anything, they are responsible for my love of baseball. They made the sport interesting. Steroids should not - do not - matter. They do not turn bad players into good players. They might not even turn them into average players. For every player that has set records after taking steroids, there are just as many, if not more, that have never accomplished anything.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 8, 2013 21:17:46 GMT -5
I mean, look at the list that just came out. Jesus Montero took PEDs? Maybe he should have taken more...
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Post by feez732 on Aug 8, 2013 21:25:51 GMT -5
Well, for starters Bonds was better. You're doing things that you can't here. If you try to predict a 100% drug free and healthy Bonds vs. a 100% healthy and drug free Ken Griffey Jr. I'd still take Griffey Jr. but we can't do that so it comes down to the whole cheating thing which will inevitably open up a can of worms in this thread that I'll wish it hadn't. Bonds literally had more than double the career WAR of Griffey. That's quite a bold statement on your part. And I think what I hate the most about the steroid discussions is the assumptions people make about who was/wasn't clean. I'm not saying it's even remotely likely that Griffey used, but you don't have really have any knowledge on the subject. Despite that, you seem to think you have enough certainty to literally bridge an 87 WAR gap in their career performances.
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Post by charliezink16 on Aug 8, 2013 22:07:15 GMT -5
@chriscotillo: Heard tonight: #Pirates offered Polanco, Allie, Taillon and Sanchez to #Marlins for Stanton.
What would this equate to?
Bradley Jr, Cecchini, Owens, Brentz & Vazquez? Just trying to work around X...
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Post by pedroelgrande on Aug 8, 2013 22:29:05 GMT -5
Thats a sick offer......If true. No way I think in value the Red Sox could match it without X unless they throw the kitchen sink at em. And by kitchen sink I mean Cecchini, Owens, De la Rosa, Barnes, Swihart potentially involve and there are other teams that could beat that and seem willing.
I like Stanton but there will be other players out there this off season to spend the chips on, if at all.
There are a couple of teams that can get in to the bidding for Stanton, Pirates seem to be one, Texas if they make Profar available, Cardinals with their pitching and Taveras, Cubs with Javier Baez, Almora could jump in there, the Mariners if they make Taijuan Walker available.
It all depends on the willingness of some teams this off season but if the Pirates are willing to part with that type of talent its gonna be hard to beat that.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 9, 2013 8:03:40 GMT -5
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 9, 2013 8:13:51 GMT -5
let's see if those knuckle draggers in NY do the right thing and boo A-Roid.
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 9, 2013 8:17:24 GMT -5
Iglesias being represented by Scott Boras now.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 9, 2013 8:24:35 GMT -5
let's see if those knuckle draggers in NY do the right thing and boo A-Roid. I don't think there's a fanbase in a major American sport that dislikes one of their own players as much as Yankee fans dislike A-Rod.
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 9, 2013 8:25:54 GMT -5
let's see if those knuckle draggers in NY do the right thing and boo A-Roid. I don't think there's a fanbase in a major American sport that dislikes one of their own players as much as Yankee fans dislike A-Rod. Yank fans in Chicago cheered him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 9, 2013 9:48:57 GMT -5
@chriscotillo: Heard tonight: #Pirates offered Polanco, Allie, Taillon and Sanchez to #Marlins for Stanton. What would this equate to? Bradley Jr, Cecchini, Owens, Brentz & Vazquez? Just trying to work around X... Taillon is one of the top 10-15 prospects in baseball. True ace potential. Only player with equivalent value in the system is Bogaerts. Sorry. Would be something like Bogaerts, Bradley, Betts (I have no idea how Allie's being valued these days), and Vazquez (probably better than Sanchez), but those are rough, rough approximations of value that don't correspond at all with the types of players.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 9, 2013 9:52:16 GMT -5
@chriscotillo: Heard tonight: #Pirates offered Polanco, Allie, Taillon and Sanchez to #Marlins for Stanton. What would this equate to? Bradley Jr, Cecchini, Owens, Brentz & Vazquez? Just trying to work around X... Taillon is one of the top 10-15 prospects in baseball. True ace potential. Only player with equivalent value in the system is Bogaerts. Sorry. The Red Sox do not have a pitching prospect who is nearly as well regarded. If the Marlins want pitching and Pirates want Stanton those two match up well.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 9, 2013 9:55:34 GMT -5
I don't think there's a fanbase in a major American sport that dislikes one of their own players as much as Yankee fans dislike A-Rod. Yank fans in Chicago cheered him. Did they? I didn't watch the games, but the clips on MLB.com all showed A-Rod getting what looked like jeers from Yankee fans. One person snapped a picture on her cell phone. Either way, I'll take your word for it, since I can see a few contrarian fans cheering him in the hostile environment just for the effect of it. Honest question. Am I the only one who feels a little bit bad for A-Rod? I mean, I don't really care one way or other about the guy, but he's been railroaded in a way I've never seen a player before. You can argue he brought it upon himself, and that's true to a point, but it's kind of depressing. I've gone back the last couple months and read articles about him as he was coming up, and the whole thing makes me a little sad.
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Post by honkbal on Aug 9, 2013 10:02:17 GMT -5
Well, for starters Bonds was better. You're doing things that you can't here. If you try to predict a 100% drug free and healthy Bonds vs. a 100% healthy and drug free Ken Griffey Jr. I'd still take Griffey Jr. but we can't do that so it comes down to the whole cheating thing which will inevitably open up a can of worms in this thread that I'll wish it hadn't. Well, how about this. In his career, Ken Griffey Jr. accumulated 83.7 rWAR (baseball-reference). From 1986-1999 Barry Bonds gained 103.5 rWAR. Do you think he was cheating during the 1990's, too?
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Post by elguapo on Aug 9, 2013 10:13:35 GMT -5
Well, how about this. In his career, Ken Griffey Jr. accumulated 83.7 rWAR (baseball-reference). From 1986-1999 Barry Bonds gained 103.5 rWAR. Do you think he was cheating during the 1990's, too? 'Tis a silly exercise. Obviously Griffey did get hurt and was never the same player after that point and there's no re-running history. And only the players themselves know who took what when, and no one knows with what impact. The two were ~ fairly comparable through age 30.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 9, 2013 10:56:33 GMT -5
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Post by sammo420 on Aug 9, 2013 12:19:48 GMT -5
Honest question. Am I the only one who feels a little bit bad for A-Rod? I mean, I don't really care one way or other about the guy, but he's been railroaded in a way I've never seen a player before. You can argue he brought it upon himself, and that's true to a point, but it's kind of depressing. I've gone back the last couple months and read articles about him as he was coming up, and the whole thing makes me a little sad. As far as feeling sorry for him, yes. I think you're pretty spot on though with your comments about him bringing this on himself and if I'm sad its because such a huge talent is such a huge jerk.
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Post by sammo420 on Aug 9, 2013 12:23:45 GMT -5
Well, how about this. In his career, Ken Griffey Jr. accumulated 83.7 rWAR (baseball-reference). From 1986-1999 Barry Bonds gained 103.5 rWAR. Do you think he was cheating during the 1990's, too? 'Tis a silly exercise. Obviously Griffey did get hurt and was never the same player after that point and there's no re-running history. And only the players themselves know who took what when, and no one knows with what impact. The two were ~ fairly comparable through age 30. Pretty much exactly my thoughts which is why I'm bowing out of this conversation because its just running around in circles for nothing.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 9, 2013 16:39:37 GMT -5
Honest question. Am I the only one who feels a little bit bad for A-Rod? I mean, I don't really care one way or other about the guy, but he's been railroaded in a way I've never seen a player before. You can argue he brought it upon himself, and that's true to a point, but it's kind of depressing. I've gone back the last couple months and read articles about him as he was coming up, and the whole thing makes me a little sad. Well, Barry Bonds actually got blackballed, so that might be worse. But yeah, the hate on A-Rod is a little ridiculous. The thing is, it really doesn't matter what he's done. Before he was history's greatest monster for using PEDs, he was history's greatest monster for being overpaid (which wasn't even true). People just want to tear the guy down because he's an amazing talent who also happens to be a jerk and/or self-absorbed weirdo and they'll use whatever means are convenient to do so. And if people don't like the guy, that's fine, but spare me the sanctimony. Cheating at sports doesn't make you a monster.
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