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2021 MLB Draft
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Post by chr31ter on Jun 5, 2021 19:13:11 GMT -5
Leiter still having issues with the long ball.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 5, 2021 19:58:42 GMT -5
Parada gonna be a top pick in a few years.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 5, 2021 20:47:10 GMT -5
Agreed, Leiter giving up a solo homer to one of the best Freshmen in the country on a night where he went 6 3 1 1 2 11, the takeaway is not that he's having an issue with the longball. Pitch was 95 and while Leiter got too much of the plate that's more good hitting than bad pitching.
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Post by tyler3 on Jun 5, 2021 23:18:56 GMT -5
Well if the guys gonna sit fastball you can always sprinkle in a few of these.
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Post by jaffinator on Jun 6, 2021 8:04:10 GMT -5
Watched most of Leiter's start and thought he looked quite good for the most part. Had the curve working as well as I'd seen from him, though that was aided by a bit of a kind outside zone. The SECN boradcast had him at 99 for a couple he reached back for, though he was mostly working around 95. Hitting 93 a little bit more often then you'd like though. Not really a concern, but right after he gave up the solo bomb he did pull himself pretty hard to the first base side once leading to him sort of stumbling over.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 6, 2021 10:04:28 GMT -5
So what’s the reason people seem to want a position player over Leiter? They seem to be graded pretty similarly and we’re probably not going to have a chance to draft a pitcher with this pedigree again anytime soon.
I think any of the top four guys, Lawlar, Mayer, Davis and Leiter all seem like pretty good options on the same tier of value.
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Post by dyoungteach on Jun 6, 2021 11:46:01 GMT -5
So what’s the reason people seem to want a position player over Leiter? They seem to be graded pretty similarly and we’re probably not going to have a chance to draft a pitcher with this pedigree again anytime soon. I think any of the top four guys, Lawlar, Mayer, Davis and Leiter all seem like pretty good options on the same tier of value. Because the risk at pitcher is way more substantial to fail. And the notion that “ we can’t draft a pitcher like this anytime soon again” is complete hogwash. Mlb is littered with ace pitchers not picked in top 5 picks and equally littered with top 5 picks at pitcher who have completely failed ( has little to no success in mlb). In fact These are the pitchers with success since 2006: Cole. Bauer. Ian Anderson. Casey mize David price Strasbourg That’s 6 pitchers in 15 YEARS! And one of those is a reliever now. Compare that to position players list: Moustakis. Posey. Hosmer Harper. Machado. Correa. Buxton Bryant Frazier ( not great). Swanson. Bregman. Tucker. Senzel. Bohm. Madrigal. Bobby Witt. Andrew Vaughn. Riley greene ( Witt and greene you could trade for an ace in heartbeat if those teams wanted to). And for that matter rutschman or torkelson) Looking at lists. Witt. Greene rutschman. Torkelson all represent top prospects in game holding value to trade for an ace if a team wishes. The position players have a more likely success to give you a franchise player also. But that’s 14 position players ( not counting the top rated minor league players) compared to 6.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,583
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Post by radiohix on Jun 6, 2021 12:36:56 GMT -5
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jun 7, 2021 16:12:14 GMT -5
All the pieces may be there with Cordero, but he's already 26 and will turn 27 before the season ends. Screams AAAA player.
If the Sox hold onto him and he happens to do something significant next year in the notorious age 27 season, I'd trade him in a heartbeat to try to get some value out of him.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Jun 7, 2021 17:50:39 GMT -5
If Leiter and Rocker keep tearing it up I wonder if one of the HS SS's drop to 4.
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Post by soxaddict on Jun 7, 2021 22:49:26 GMT -5
Has Adrian Del Castillo fallen off the map? Any chance we could grab him in round 2?
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Post by soxaddict on Jun 7, 2021 22:51:24 GMT -5
If Leiter and Rocker keep tearing it up I wonder if one of the HS SS's drop to 4. Assuming Mayer and Lawler go 1 and 2, I'd be fine with Davis, Leiter or House.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Jun 7, 2021 23:06:06 GMT -5
Has Adrian Del Castillo fallen off the map? Any chance we could grab him in round 2? Pop strangely disappeared
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Post by soxaddict on Jun 8, 2021 1:27:38 GMT -5
Has Adrian Del Castillo fallen off the map? Any chance we could grab him in round 2? Pop strangely disappeared I saw one list that had him at 50, with most being in the mid 20s. Other fallers include Jud Fabian and Jayden Hill. I'd love to see one of those guys fall to 40. I know Hill is coming off of TJ surgery, but damn that'd be nice if he fell to us in round 2.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,121
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Post by jimoh on Jun 8, 2021 5:56:54 GMT -5
Looking at lists. Witt. Greene rutschman. Torkelson all represent top prospects in game holding value to trade for an ace if a team wishes. [...] Your claim that if we want an ace we can just trade a first-round position player for him needs more thought. - A few years ago we had the #1 prospect in Yoan Moncada. We traded him for an ace, so I guess that supports your claim that if you draft position players you can trade them for an ace. Except oops, we had to give more than the #1 prospect to get an ace: we had to add a highly rated first round pitcher in Kopech. Kopech did get hurt, but he did have great value.
- When we traded for Pedro, we traded a first-round pitcher and another good arm.
- When we traded for Schilling, we traded a first-round pitcher as part of a package.
I suppose there may be examples where a first-round position player alone brought back an ace. Do you have them? You could suggest intl. signing Hanley Ramirez in the multi-player Becket trade, but of course he was only an ace now and then. You keep saying this over and over again as though it were obvious, but in fact there are arguments on both sides. Pitchers carry more risk, but they also carry the possibility of great reward, and they can have great trade value.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 8, 2021 8:23:31 GMT -5
Don't forget Chris Sale also cost Victor Diaz, and one of the Luis A. Basabes.
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Post by rismith on Jun 8, 2021 8:26:43 GMT -5
I know I am in the minority but I would love to one day watch him on the bump with the Fenway Faithful chanting......Kumaaaaah Rockaaaahh!!!
I get he has flaws but I like the high floor he brings. Size, mentality to lead, great arm, etc. Just a personal favorite and I get Leiter, Mayer, etc are likely better analytical picks.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 8, 2021 8:29:18 GMT -5
New Prospects Live two-round mock ( link): 1. Pittsburgh Pirates: Henry Davis, C, Louisville 2. Texas Rangers: Kahlil Watson, SS, Wake Forest (HS) 3. Detroit Tigers: Marcelo Mayer, SS, Eastlake 5. Baltimore Orioles: Harry Ford, C/2B/OF, North Cobb 6. Arizona Diamondbacks: Jackson Jobe, RHP, Heritage Hall 7. Kansas City Royals: Jordan Lawlar, SS, Dallas Jesuit 8. Colorado Rockies: Sam Bachman, RHP, Miami of Ohio 9. Los Angeles Angels: Will Taylor, OF, Dutch Fork 10. New York Mets: Brady House, SS, Winder-Barrow
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 8, 2021 8:34:43 GMT -5
Wow, Lawlar down to 7, House down to 10, and Rocker out of the top 10.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 8, 2021 11:55:19 GMT -5
New Prospects Live two-round mock ( link): 1. Pittsburgh Pirates: Henry Davis, C, Louisville 2. Texas Rangers: Kahlil Watson, SS, Wake Forest (HS) 3. Detroit Tigers: Marcelo Mayer, SS, Eastlake 5. Baltimore Orioles: Harry Ford, C/2B/OF, North Cobb 6. Arizona Diamondbacks: Jackson Jobe, RHP, Heritage Hall 7. Kansas City Royals: Jordan Lawlar, SS, Dallas Jesuit 8. Colorado Rockies: Sam Bachman, RHP, Miami of Ohio 9. Los Angeles Angels: Will Taylor, OF, Dutch Fork 10. New York Mets: Brady House, SS, Winder-Barrow I like Prospects Live's content, and the draft certainly isn't relegated to groupthink, but are they actually sourced at all? Because a lot of this seems pretty out there.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,121
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Post by jimoh on Jun 8, 2021 11:59:43 GMT -5
New Prospects Live two-round mock ( link): 1. Pittsburgh Pirates: Henry Davis, C, Louisville 2. Texas Rangers: Kahlil Watson, SS, Wake Forest (HS) 3. Detroit Tigers: Marcelo Mayer, SS, Eastlake 5. Baltimore Orioles: Harry Ford, C/2B/OF, North Cobb 6. Arizona Diamondbacks: Jackson Jobe, RHP, Heritage Hall 7. Kansas City Royals: Jordan Lawlar, SS, Dallas Jesuit 8. Colorado Rockies: Sam Bachman, RHP, Miami of Ohio 9. Los Angeles Angels: Will Taylor, OF, Dutch Fork 10. New York Mets: Brady House, SS, Winder-Barrow I like Prospects Live's content, and the draft certainly isn't relegated to groupthink, but are they actually sourced at all? Because a lot of this seems pretty out there. I had a similar reaction, but I read through the top ten or so and saw that they at least seem to be based partly on who is showing up to scout people (e.g. lots of Texas people watching Khalil Watson) and they claim to be talking to scouts. So, not just making things up, but we can be skeptical about the quality and number of their sources.
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Post by marrcus on Jun 8, 2021 12:35:52 GMT -5
How much bonus $$$ could Pirates save by taking Davis (no leverage) rather than say SS Mayer?
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Post by tyler3 on Jun 8, 2021 15:25:04 GMT -5
A guy from a separate site said he heard the Rangers connection and that was last week so the rumors are at least real pertaining Watson. Whether they are circular reporting….who knows.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 8, 2021 15:36:52 GMT -5
How much bonus $$$ could Pirates save by taking Davis (no leverage) rather than say SS Mayer? I too am interested in this question. I tried looking it up, but between I should be working and I should be working I just don't have that much ambition. I believe it's somewhere in the 70-75% range that they have to offer. So, they can save somewhere in the 25-30% range. So the Sox for example, adding in the 5% overage could give themselves an extra 2.3 million or so to spread around elsewhere. Pirates would have more. Putting this out there so someone will correct me.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Jun 8, 2021 16:02:01 GMT -5
How much bonus $$$ could Pirates save by taking Davis (no leverage) rather than say SS Mayer? Very little, I would think. Davis is very much in the conversation for best player in the draft, and college guys who get picked #1 have consistently gotten very close to slot value.
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