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Hall of Famer Joe Morgan Passes Away
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 12, 2020 10:45:37 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Oct 12, 2020 11:26:23 GMT -5
Terrible year: Seaver, Brock, Gibson, Ford, Morgan. Some of the most inspiring players of my youth (and before... not so old I saw Ford!). Really sad. It feels like we’ve lost a huge part of a golden era of baseball.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 12, 2020 11:29:08 GMT -5
END THIS FCKING YEAR ALREADY
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 12, 2020 13:02:48 GMT -5
Terrible year: Seaver, Brock, Gibson, Ford, Morgan. Some of the most inspiring players of my youth (and before... not so old I saw Ford!). Really sad. It feels like we’ve lost a huge part of a golden era of baseball. |
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 12, 2020 13:22:52 GMT -5
Joe was one of my favorite players to watch. And personally, I enjoyed his input as an analysis on TV. As stated above, a terrible year for losing players I looked up to when growing up. Man you know your own days are numbered when guys like this leave us.
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 12, 2020 13:45:10 GMT -5
Terrible year: Seaver, Brock, Gibson, Ford, Morgan. Some of the most inspiring players of my youth (and before... not so old I saw Ford!). Really sad. It feels like we’ve lost a huge part of a golden era of baseball. That's quite a team, only fitting that John McNamara (1932-2020) manages them. |
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Post by manfred on Oct 12, 2020 14:02:53 GMT -5
That's quite a team, only fitting that John McNamara (1932-2020) manages them. Wait... Tony Fernandez died? What? When? Goddddddm it. I loved him in Strat-o-matic. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 12, 2020 15:57:35 GMT -5
Terrible year: Seaver, Brock, Gibson, Ford, Morgan. Some of the most inspiring players of my youth (and before... not so old I saw Ford!). Really sad. It feels like we’ve lost a huge part of a golden era of baseball. We even lost one of the most intriguing minor leaguers of all-time in 2020. Steve Dalkowski was an Orioles prospect in the early 1960s. He is a local story where I live in Connecticut. The thing about Dalkowski is that he probably threw harder than the HOFers on this list. He threw over 100, but his control was spotty to be kind, the kind of guy who back then could strike out 15 per game and walk 10. He was unhittable, but he eventually had arm issues and never made the major leagues. Complicating things was his severe drinking problem which also torpedoed his career as well. He's one of the greatest "What could he have been?" had he stayed healthy and curtailed some of his wildness. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 12, 2020 16:29:46 GMT -5
Nuke LaLoosh is based loosely on Dalkowski.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,837 
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 12, 2020 18:53:28 GMT -5
A fond memory of Joe: It's October 2003 and I'm in my car listening to Joe on the radio being interviewed about the PS. He remarked that he had the best job in the world because on consecutive days he was going to be at games at Fenway, Wrigley and MFY Stadium. You could hear the joy, his appreciation for the game, in his voice.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 12, 2020 19:37:50 GMT -5
To me, the best all around second baseman in my lifetime. I also liked him as an announcer because if you were watching a game and life was happening around you, he pretty much said what was happening on the screen, more like a radio announcer and his enthusiasm was obvious.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Oct 12, 2020 19:58:40 GMT -5
Joe was one of my favorite players to watch. And personally, I enjoyed his input as an analysis on TV. As stated above, a terrible year for losing players I looked up to when growing up. Man you know your own days are numbered when guys like this leave us. That's the way it goes. I am starting to move away from this site more and more, and a large part of the reason for it is that I will most likely be dead before any players the Red Sox draft from now on who are lucky enough to have long major league careers, complete them. Sobering to realize I am most likely into my last generation of baseball. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 12, 2020 20:16:36 GMT -5
Joe was one of my favorite players to watch. And personally, I enjoyed his input as an analysis on TV. As stated above, a terrible year for losing players I looked up to when growing up. Man you know your own days are numbered when guys like this leave us. That's the way it goes. I am starting to move away from this site more and more, and a large part of the reason for it is that I will most likely be dead before any players the Red Sox draft from now on who are lucky enough to have long major league careers, complete them. Sobering to realize I am most likely into my last generation of baseball. I'm planning on sticking around for a while but if I died today, I'd have nothing to complain about, the glass is overflowing. Besides there's probably internet in heaven and hell. Good people get to follow the Sox, bad people only get Yankee broadcasts. |
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,988
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Post by jimoh on Oct 12, 2020 20:28:24 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 12, 2020 21:24:18 GMT -5
The greatest second baseman since integration, and it isn't close. From 1972 through 1977 he hit .301/.429/.495. He walked 1865 times in his career while striking out just 1015.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 12, 2020 21:25:55 GMT -5
The greatest second baseman since integration, and it isn't close. From 1972 through 1977 he hit .301/.429/.495. He walked 1865 times in his career while striking out just 1015. Stolen bases, fielding, a complete player. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 13, 2020 0:49:53 GMT -5
For me the ironic thing about Joe Morgan was that Joe Morgan the analyst hated sabermetrics and everything about them and was a traditionalist. A traditionalist might tell you that Joe Morgan was a .265 - .270 type hitter with middling power who wasn't normally a huge RBI guy, which is a nice player, but hardly otherworldly. A sabermetrics guy would tell you with those walks and that OBP, and his offense relative to 2b, his excellent speed and defense, that he was one of the greatest second basemen of all-time. I hope Joe Morgan the analyst could appreciate how awesome Joe Morgan the player was. I know we all certainly did, even if he did get one post-season bloop hit too many in his fantastic career (and jeez, what a coincidence it was that teams that acquired Joe Morgan suddenly got a lot better). RIP Joe Morgan.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,837
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 13, 2020 8:42:38 GMT -5
The greatest second baseman since integration, and it isn't close. From 1972 through 1977 he hit .301/.429/.495. He walked 1865 times in his career while striking out just 1015. With the possible exception of the guy whose grace and courage brought us integration. It's not an easy comparison because Jackie spent significant time at other positions and had a much shorter career. But it's a close call. They had identical OPS's of 132. Joe had a ridiculous 100.5 career WAR in 22 years but Jackie had 61.7 in only 10 seasons. Joe .271/.392/.427 Jackie .311/.409/.474 The oddity with Joe is that people think of him as a great defensive 2B but dWAR isn't so kind to him. He's at 3.8, which is basically break even over 22 seasons. Jackie put up 10.1. Jackie's cumulative numbers would have been much higher if he hadn't been banned from MLB for at least four of his prime years. Throw in the fact that he had to persevere against conditions no other athlete ever faced and you see how great he was. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 13, 2020 10:06:30 GMT -5
On Morgan's defense, if you look at it year-by-year, he was bad early in his career but got much better in his prime, right around when he went to Cincinnati, then he tapered off again as he got older. So yes, at his peak he was a very good defensive second baseman, but his career numbers aren't great because he was so bad when he first came up.
1963-1970: -2.6 dWAR
1971-1980: 6.3 dWAR
1981-1984: 0.2 dWAR
Honestly, he became a much different player when he got to Cincinnati. It's not terribly dissimilar from David Ortiz before/after joining the Red Sox, except Morgan played many more games with Houston.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 13, 2020 11:12:17 GMT -5
The greatest second baseman since integration, and it isn't close. From 1972 through 1977 he hit .301/.429/.495. He walked 1865 times in his career while striking out just 1015. With the possible exception of the guy whose grace and courage brought us integration. It's not an easy comparison because Jackie spent significant time at other positions and had a much shorter career. But it's a close call. They had identical OPS's of 132. Joe had a ridiculous 100.5 career WAR in 22 years but Jackie had 61.7 in only 10 seasons. Joe .271/.392/.427 Jackie .311/.409/.474 The oddity with Joe is that people think of him as a great defensive 2B but dWAR isn't so kind to him. He's at 3.8, which is basically break even over 22 seasons. Jackie put up 10.1. Jackie's cumulative numbers would have been much higher if he hadn't been banned from MLB for at least four of his prime years. Throw in the fact that he had to persevere against conditions no other athlete ever faced and you see how great he was. That's fair, but you'd really have to compare Jackie's best 11 seasons to Morgan's, rather than Morgan's career stats. Morgan had a long, gradual decline phase where he was no longer particularly at his peak defensively and the power had waned but was still enough of a positive contributor to be playing. He was a 71.4 bWAR player from 1967 to 1977, with a 5.2 dWAR. And Morgan's defensive statistics are strange in that they show him not being particularly good from age 19 to 26, which means either that he improved greatly mid-career or BRef's numbers are not quite getting him right in his Houston years. Robinson also didn't play much second base after '52, he was largely an outfielder and third baseman. |
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