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Benintendi traded to KC in 3-way deal w/ NYM
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Apr 25, 2021 20:05:28 GMT -5
Benny, 2-4 today with a sb. Batting a whopping .225. He did hit a homer recently maybe he is turning a corner. April is historically his worst month outside of September/October, could have just needed some time to warm up. Especially with the way last season ended for him
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Post by marrcus on Apr 25, 2021 21:20:29 GMT -5
He never seemed to start a season in shape. Now I may be totally off in thinking that. Maybe at 5'9 and extra 10 lbs. added, really looked like he was too heavy. But for once I wanted to see him fit and ready to go mentally and physically. I don't know if anything changed this year after the deal. You would think he wanted to be at his best. I hope things work out.
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Post by lennsakata on Apr 25, 2021 21:43:27 GMT -5
He never seemed to start a season in shape. Now I may be totally off in thinking that. Maybe at 5'9 and extra 10 lbs. added, really looked like he was too heavy. But for once I wanted to see him fit and ready to go mentally and physically. I don't know if anything changed this year after the deal. You would think he wanted to be at his best. I hope things work out. Yeah, he added muscle the past couple of years to start the season. Probably to try and take a jump in power but I think he also lost weight during the grind of the season when he was in his first few seasons...either way, not out of shape, just added muscle mass and I believe he intentionally went back to a smaller build for this season since the extra muscle mass did not help hin
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 25, 2021 21:57:44 GMT -5
He never seemed to start a season in shape. Now I may be totally off in thinking that. Maybe at 5'9 and extra 10 lbs. added, really looked like he was too heavy. But for once I wanted to see him fit and ready to go mentally and physically. I don't know if anything changed this year after the deal. You would think he wanted to be at his best. I hope things work out. Yeah, he added muscle the past couple of years to start the season. Probably to try and take a jump in power but I think he also lost weight during the grind of the season when he was in his first few seasons...either way, not out of shape, just added muscle mass and I believe he intentionally went back to a smaller build for this season since the extra muscle mass did not help hin The Red Sox saved $3.8 million by trading Beni, gain as much as 7 years of control on Winckowski and the 3 PTBN, but Beni was almost guaranteed to be better than Cordero this year. Bottom line is the trade was to build the farm system for the future in addition to helping the Red Sox stay under CBT. I think Beni will be light years better than Cordero this year and next year. Beni will be serviceable or somewhere around league average vs Cordero needs a trip to AAA.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 26, 2021 11:38:00 GMT -5
Benny, 2-4 today with a sb. Batting a whopping .225. He did hit a homer recently maybe he is turning a corner. April is historically his worst month outside of September/October, could have just needed some time to warm up. Especially with the way last season ended for him I mean, it is, but not by some huge amount (50-100 points of OPS), and it's almost entirely tied up in slugging, which makes me think it could, in large part, be a New England weather thing. It also makes me wonder how much this April is bringing it down because we're still not even talking about an 100-game sample of March/April games.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 26, 2021 22:13:40 GMT -5
April is historically his worst month outside of September/October, could have just needed some time to warm up. Especially with the way last season ended for him I mean, it is, but not by some huge amount (50-100 points of OPS), and it's almost entirely tied up in slugging, which makes me think it could, in large part, be a New England weather thing. It also makes me wonder how much this April is bringing it down because we're still not even talking about an 100-game sample of March/April games. The Red Sox have given up an AL league leading 14 HRs vs the 2nd fewest is 19, and the league average is 24 HRs. Do you think the weather is more responsible for this or the group of pitchers themselves? Note: probably a combination of the two factors obviously, but how much of a factor do you think the weather is and how much will it change once the weather warms up ??
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 26, 2021 23:08:58 GMT -5
I mean, it is, but not by some huge amount (50-100 points of OPS), and it's almost entirely tied up in slugging, which makes me think it could, in large part, be a New England weather thing. It also makes me wonder how much this April is bringing it down because we're still not even talking about an 100-game sample of March/April games. The Red Sox have given up an AL league leading 14 HRs vs the 2nd fewest is 19, and the league average is 24 HRs. Do you think the weather is more responsible for this or the group of pitchers themselves? Note: probably a combination of the two factors obviously, but how much of a factor do you think the weather is and how much will it change once the weather warms up ?? When the weather warms up I'd anticipate Dalbec will go on a tear, hitting about 5 HRs in a week. Wouldn't be shocked if he had 10 homers by Memorial Day. And yeah, Red Sox pitchers will give up more HRs as the weather warms up.
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Post by Jimmy on Apr 28, 2021 9:20:50 GMT -5
Franchy is eligible to be optioned to AAA, correct? Site says he has two options left. I think Franchy could benefit from an AAA stint as this point. He looks lost. I think this would be a good corresponding move with the eventual Danny Santana call up if Franchy is still struggling at that point. Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d rather give Franchy a chance to go down and fix whatever’s wrong than DFA Brice or option Taylor. At least those guys can eat innings in a mop up role.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 28, 2021 9:23:55 GMT -5
Franchy is eligible to be optioned to AAA, correct? Site says he has two options left. I think Franchy could benefit from an AAA stint as this point. He looks lost. I think this would be a good corresponding move with the eventual Danny Santana call up if Franchy is still struggling at that point. Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d rather give Franchy a chance to go down and fix whatever’s wrong than DFA Brice or option Taylor. At least those guys can eat innings in a mop up role. Cora already said that until there is a AAA season, optioning Francy doesn't make sense. Yes, if they do indeed start the season on time, I can see Franchy being optioned and getting every day ABs in AAA, even against lefties with Santana getting the call up, but not until then. And from what I read, I don't think Santana is completely ready yet anyways. That's why I think his opt out was moved back a bit.
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Post by Jimmy on Apr 28, 2021 9:31:48 GMT -5
Franchy is eligible to be optioned to AAA, correct? Site says he has two options left. I think Franchy could benefit from an AAA stint as this point. He looks lost. I think this would be a good corresponding move with the eventual Danny Santana call up if Franchy is still struggling at that point. Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d rather give Franchy a chance to go down and fix whatever’s wrong than DFA Brice or option Taylor. At least those guys can eat innings in a mop up role. Cora already said that until there is a AAA season, optioning Francy doesn't make sense. Yes, if they do indeed start the season on time, I can see Franchy being optioned and getting every day ABs in AAA, even against lefties with Santana getting the call up, but not until then. And from what I read, I don't think Santana is completely ready yet anyways. That's why I think his opt out was moved back a bit. Gotcha. In a few weeks when AAA is going and Santana is ready, if Franchy is still struggling think the move makes sense.
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Post by manfred on Apr 28, 2021 10:11:35 GMT -5
Is there a reason to believe Santana is closer to his 2019 version and not his 2015-2018, 2020 version? Did he do something different?
I am not convinced he is going to be a huge step up — so at least I hope they are scheming to put together a back up plan to the back up plan. I guess that might be Duran. But I’d like Cora to start cycling Marwin into left much more. And, risky as it might be, JDM actually made a nice throw yesterday and could be worth throwing out there once a week.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 28, 2021 10:33:22 GMT -5
Is there a reason to believe Santana is closer to his 2019 version and not his 2015-2018, 2020 version? Did he do something different? I am not convinced he is going to be a huge step up — so at least I hope they are scheming to put together a back up plan to the back up plan. I guess that might be Duran. But I’d like Cora to start cycling Marwin into left much more. And, risky as it might be, JDM actually made a nice throw yesterday and could be worth throwing out there once a week. That's what I think they'll do. They can try Santana. He has had two good seasons, his rookie season and 2019 and has been really bad in between and last year when he was injured. Which guy do you get? What I get out of this is at least he has been good at some point over the past two years. It's not like you're hoping his ability translates, there is a track record here of some success, so yes I think you can try him in LF first. I think ideally you'd want Duran in CF if Hernandez winds up being below average, but yes Duran is a viable option in LF and somebody they might wait on longer as he really has never had any AAA atbats. And yes, they could give Marwin Gonzalez more of a home in LF. He's mediocre, though, but that's better than replacement level. There's also a possibility that they send Cordero down, they figure out what's up with him, and he comes back to the majors a new man. Can you rely on that? No, but can it happen? Yeah, it could, so that's another possibility. Then there's another option they could utilize if none of this works and that's the trade market. I would think in terms of difficulty to acquire, a corner outfielder would be one of the easiest assets to acquire, so there is that possibility as well if all else seems to not be working come the end of July.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 28, 2021 11:00:12 GMT -5
Then there's another option they could utilize if none of this works and that's the trade market. I would think in terms of difficulty to acquire, a corner outfielder would be one of the easiest assets to acquire, so there is that possibility as well if all else seems to not be working come the end of July. What makes you think there's a lot of that kind of asset, and what are you willing to give up for it? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing, I'm just saying, I don't think one can assume the market will be dripping with some kind of asset, and there's the problem of how much are you willing to give up to get it.
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Post by manfred on Apr 28, 2021 11:05:01 GMT -5
It seems like a long way from discussing trades. There are a lot of questions with all the internal options, but there are a lot of them, at least. Only one has to answer affirmatively. Renfroe heat up; Franchy, er,... yeah; Santana be decent; Marwin take over; Duran arrive...
By the time trades become a real option, they may have a solution ok enough not to make it worth it.
Broadly, they are likely to be cautious trading to improve for this year. They didn’t just go through a semi-teardown to build prospects to turn around and trade prospects for temporary fixes.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 28, 2021 11:20:56 GMT -5
Then there's another option they could utilize if none of this works and that's the trade market. I would think in terms of difficulty to acquire, a corner outfielder would be one of the easiest assets to acquire, so there is that possibility as well if all else seems to not be working come the end of July. What makes you think there's a lot of that kind of asset, and what are you willing to give up for it? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing, I'm just saying, I don't think one can assume the market will be dripping with some kind of asset, and there's the problem of how much are you willing to give up to get it. I'm assuming in a vacuum. Let me see if I can explain my line of thinking properly. The Sox need somebody who is average in LF. They don't need to get the second coming of Manny Ramirez. They need one of those marginal upgrades that Bloom is fond of making. I think it's easier to get a corner OF than it is to get a SS or a catcher or a starting pitcher. It's lower on the defensive spectrum so you'd anticipate there are more guys who can be adequately offensively who play LF than SS or catch. Likewise quality pitching can be really costly to obtain. If you use any analytical stat, middle relievers don't have a ton of value, but a good one could be costly to obtain, or at least more than you'd want to give up. I just feel it's easier to go get a LF if you need to get one than to get a guy who can hit that's higher on the defensive spectrum. And I'm not saying the Sox must do this. They have other options to exhaust. I think it's a good thing if that's one of your biggest needs. I think it's a good thing that as of now they don't look like a team that has to go try to acquire a starting pitcher. While it's not a bad thing to get, they do have internal options they can use, which some teams aren't in a position to do, and it's also the kind of options the Sox haven't had in awhile. They can see if Sale is healthy. They can try to stretch out Whitlock if need be. They can see what Connor Seabold can give them. They have Tanner Houck to turn to. The latter two are the most obvious and simplest options. The prevents them from having to spend big resources to improve their pitching. If they had to go get a starter I would think that would be more costly than having to get an average leftfielder, which they might not need to get either if Santana pans out or Cordero gets his issues solved or Gonzalez picks up the pace or Duran is ready to hit the ground running and isn't needed in CF.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 28, 2021 11:24:25 GMT -5
It seems like a long way from discussing trades. There are a lot of questions with all the internal options, but there are a lot of them, at least. Only one has to answer affirmatively. Renfroe heat up; Franchy, er,... yeah; Santana be decent; Marwin take over; Duran arrive... By the time trades become a real option, they may have a solution ok enough not to make it worth it. Broadly, they are likely to be cautious trading to improve for this year. They didn’t just go through a semi-teardown to build prospects to turn around and trade prospects for temporary fixes. Just to be clear, trades are a last resort but an option if the internal options don't pan out. And as we both know, injuries could occur which can quickly change your needs.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 28, 2021 13:52:55 GMT -5
Santana seems like just another version of Cordero.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 28, 2021 13:59:40 GMT -5
Santana seems like just another version of Cordero. Similar type of hitter, but Santana has had some track record of success, unlike Cordero. If Cordero blossoms he could have a year like Santana had in 2019. Hope one of them has a season like Santana had in 2019.
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Post by greenmonster on Apr 28, 2021 14:35:13 GMT -5
Santana seems like just another version of Cordero. Similar type of hitter, but Santana has had some track record of success, unlike Cordero. If Cordero blossoms he could have a year like Santana had in 2019. Hope one of them has a season like Santana had in 2019. ...and of course, Santana can play pretty much any position (except P,C).
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Apr 28, 2021 20:53:34 GMT -5
3 walks and a double at last check for our boy
RESURRECT YOURSELF YOUNG KING
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Post by manfred on Apr 29, 2021 8:20:42 GMT -5
Don’t look now but last 7 games, Beni at .304/.429/.907. Love to see him fight back.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 29, 2021 9:40:37 GMT -5
Don’t look now but last 7 games, Beni at .304/.429/.907. Love to see him fight back. Would it be that shocking to see him at .270 with a .340 OBP and say a .410 SA? Even so, I think the Sox felt he was a guy that they had no intention of extending and given the chance to get 5 players for him, they jumped on it. Just hope they hit on some of these guys. Cordero isn't exactly instilling confidence. Too early to write him off but something has to change with him as far as plate discipline or else he won't amount to anything.
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Post by manfred on Apr 29, 2021 9:43:48 GMT -5
Don’t look now but last 7 games, Beni at .304/.429/.907. Love to see him fight back. Would it be that shocking to see him at .270 with a .340 OBP and say a .410 SA? Even so, I think the Sox felt he was a guy that they had no intention of extending and given the chance to get 5 players for him, they jumped on it. Just hope they hit on some of these guys. Cordero isn't exactly instilling confidence. Too early to write him off but something has to change with him as far as plate discipline or else he won't amount to anything. I’m not keeping up because I am second guessing... let me be clear. I think you make that trade *assuming* Beni gets it together. But I am still really rooting for him, and I don’t figure it is controversial here to check in. So it isb’t meant to be a shot at anyone.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 29, 2021 9:53:57 GMT -5
Would it be that shocking to see him at .270 with a .340 OBP and say a .410 SA? Even so, I think the Sox felt he was a guy that they had no intention of extending and given the chance to get 5 players for him, they jumped on it. Just hope they hit on some of these guys. Cordero isn't exactly instilling confidence. Too early to write him off but something has to change with him as far as plate discipline or else he won't amount to anything. I’m not keeping up because I am second guessing... let me be clear. I think you make that trade *assuming* Beni gets it together. But I am still really rooting for him, and I don’t figure it is controversial here to check in. So it isb’t meant to be a shot at anyone. Oh, I didn't take it that way. Part of me is thinking, "Wouldn't it be great to have a .750 OPS in LF right about now?", but I have to remind myself even though Cordero is a mess right now, there are 3 other players to be determined, one of which should be a really good prospect (the others could be as well?) and Winckowki. Plus the possibility (can't count on it) that Cordero can get straightened out. While he is built a lot differently than Wily Mo Pena, he kind of reminds me a little bit of him, although Pena actually had a better track record when the Sox acquired him.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 29, 2021 10:40:32 GMT -5
Just a general thought: It might be a good idea to put trade-independent "how is Benintendi doing right now" thoughts in the Where Are They Now thread. I'd started it back in the day because I wanted to say nice things about players like Margot and Moncada without relitigating the Sale and Kimbrel deals, and this is right in that same category.
I'll also say that there's some overemphasis on Franchy Cordero's play as it relates to this trade. It reminds me of how people were critical of the Rays for trading Matthew Liberatore for Jose Martinez when they didn't yet know who Randy Arozarena was and about the pick they used on Alika Williams.
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