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Benintendi traded to KC in 3-way deal w/ NYM
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 21, 2021 7:29:34 GMT -5
It's kind of sad how bad Benintendi looks....how did it all go so wrong. Interesting note. He hasn't hit a home run since 2019. 15 for 96 with 4 doubles since 2019. Looks like the Sox were good to get some value. Am really looking for the minor league season to kick in so we can start seeing stats on the PTBNL.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 21, 2021 12:31:26 GMT -5
For a guy that I’ve been told sucks he’s been doing a decent job not sucking, even with his ridiculous K rate This has the potential to go down as a wildly lopsided trade. He’s already pulled off one with Philly. He’s already gotten more out of Pivetta than what the Phils got out of the two relievers. Let’s continue this trend Chaim
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Post by dyoungteach on Apr 21, 2021 12:39:29 GMT -5
Some interesting names from Mets. ( I’m assuming a nicer prospect considering we gave them Lee).
Tyler megill Mark vientos Alexander Ramirez
Obviously more but those names came from mlbs minor league update and could. Be In the range Sox are picking from.
This trade could be an absolute theft when all is done
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Post by manfred on Apr 21, 2021 12:42:37 GMT -5
For a guy that I’ve been told sucks he’s been doing a decent job not sucking, even with his ridiculous K rate This has the potential to go down as a wildly lopsided trade. He’s already pulled off one with Philly. He’s already gotten more out of Pivetta than what the Phils got out of the two relievers. Let’s continue this trend Chaim OTOH: xwOBA: bottom 1% xBA: bottom 1% xSLG: bottom 1% K rate: bottom 2% Whiff rate: bottom 2% Barrels: 0 But maybe he will turn the corner.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 21, 2021 12:55:17 GMT -5
For a guy that I’ve been told sucks he’s been doing a decent job not sucking, even with his ridiculous K rate This has the potential to go down as a wildly lopsided trade. He’s already pulled off one with Philly. He’s already gotten more out of Pivetta than what the Phils got out of the two relievers. Let’s continue this trend Chaim OTOH: xwOBA: bottom 1% xBA: bottom 1% xSLG: bottom 1% K rate: bottom 2% Whiff rate: bottom 2% Barrels: 0 But maybe he will turn the corner. I know the Sox preach aggression at the plate, by my gosh, he swings at some awful pitches. I'm hoping they can work with him somehow. From everything I've read this is a smart willing kid, open to suggestion on bettering himself. I know that plate discipline can be instinctual, but if this kid learns to lay off some of those pitches, can get himself in hitters' counts, he could be one helluva player. He just needs to stop getting himself out.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,053
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Post by cdj on Apr 21, 2021 13:04:46 GMT -5
For a guy that I’ve been told sucks he’s been doing a decent job not sucking, even with his ridiculous K rate This has the potential to go down as a wildly lopsided trade. He’s already pulled off one with Philly. He’s already gotten more out of Pivetta than what the Phils got out of the two relievers. Let’s continue this trend Chaim OTOH: xwOBA: bottom 1% xBA: bottom 1% xSLG: bottom 1% K rate: bottom 2% Whiff rate: bottom 2% Barrels: 0 But maybe he will turn the corner. Hence the “not even close to warm” bat part of that tweet. I’d say it’s pretty impressive that he’s managed to come through in big spots in spite of all of that
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 21, 2021 13:09:20 GMT -5
All of which comes down to changing his approach. That was one of the narratives around his coming to the Sox. Cora has a reputation for working with players. Now's the time to see how this plays out with Cordero.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 21, 2021 13:12:56 GMT -5
All of which comes down to changing his approach. That was one of the narratives around his coming to the Sox. Cora has a reputation for working with players. Now's the time to see how this plays out with Cordero. One of the problems is that Cordero missed time in spring training with Covid related issues so Cora didn't get to work with him and Cordero got a late start, pretty much missed most of spring training and I doubt he had much time to get his approach tweaked. I guess Cora and Hyers will have to do it on the fly, which can be tricky.
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Post by manfred on Apr 21, 2021 13:19:57 GMT -5
OTOH: xwOBA: bottom 1% xBA: bottom 1% xSLG: bottom 1% K rate: bottom 2% Whiff rate: bottom 2% Barrels: 0 But maybe he will turn the corner. Hence the “not even close to warm” bat part of that tweet. I’d say it’s pretty impressive that he’s managed to come through in big spots in spite of all of that He also has a .500 BABIP. I’m new to advanced stats. Is that sustainable? Interestingly, it isn’t cause he is smoking the ball. He is in the 29th percentile for EV. My main point is actually not to s—t on Franchy. Note I want to bench Renfroe, but I’d let Franchy ride pretty much all season. See if he adjusts. But.... for all our talk about Beni being toast, and as terrible as he has been, he is *beating* Franchy in all of the numbers I cited. He is nearly doubling him for EV! But Beni has a .275 BABIP (not as good as the .500). It seems that since Beni was good and is sucking, we are saying, well, he is sucking. But other than that BABIP, there is not much space between the two. So it seems like they should be held to the same standard. (That is, if we are going to give Franchy the benefit of the doubt that he will heat up, why not give Beni the same grace?). I’m glad we are not enduring Beni’s sad end. I am less glad to replace him with a guy who is not showing that much more. I’ve said before... it doesn’t matter. The next great Sox OF will likely be Verdugo, Duran, and someone not currently on the radar.
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 21, 2021 13:29:27 GMT -5
.205 and .616 ops.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 21, 2021 14:20:06 GMT -5
Unless I'm missing something. Cordero - .270/.341/.324/.666 0.5 WAR Benintendi - .193/.270/.246/.515 -0.2 WAR. That's already 7/10 of a win difference and we're only 18 games in and Cordero hasn't had any power.
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 21, 2021 14:26:14 GMT -5
Just a notation of the stats on this day of a 27 year old former prospect on his third team trying to establish himself in a platoon in 2003.
David Arias ended April with 4 doubles and one homer. Recognizing he’s an outlier, it’s still early.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 21, 2021 14:35:11 GMT -5
Hence the “not even close to warm” bat part of that tweet. I’d say it’s pretty impressive that he’s managed to come through in big spots in spite of all of that He also has a .500 BABIP. I’m new to advanced stats. Is that sustainable? Interestingly, it isn’t cause he is smoking the ball. He is in the 29th percentile for EV. My main point is actually not to s—t on Franchy. Note I want to bench Renfroe, but I’d let Franchy ride pretty much all season. See if he adjusts. But.... for all our talk about Beni being toast, and as terrible as he has been, he is *beating* Franchy in all of the numbers I cited. He is nearly doubling him for EV! But Beni has a .275 BABIP (not as good as the .500). It seems that since Beni was good and is sucking, we are saying, well, he is sucking. But other than that BABIP, there is not much space between the two. So it seems like they should be held to the same standard. (That is, if we are going to give Franchy the benefit of the doubt that he will heat up, why not give Beni the same grace?). I’m glad we are not enduring Beni’s sad end. I am less glad to replace him with a guy who is not showing that much more. I’ve said before... it doesn’t matter. The next great Sox OF will likely be Verdugo, Duran, and someone not currently on the radar. I've only seen Franchy in a few at bats, I thought he was going to be just like Renfroe, a guy who swings from the heels always and watch out when he connects, but I saw him in a game 2x poke a ball the other way to beat the shift, that tells me the ability is there. I'm a little skeptical about his defense (he plays awful deep all the time like he's afraid of going back on balls) but I think if he can stay healthy, and if he can get a little bit better at identifying pitches in his hot zones and spitting on other stuff he will be real fun to watch at the dish. I'm not worried about EV right now, and even if I was comparing the two, Beni has gotten more chances (AB's) anyways. Beni has gotten 20 more at bats and has 1 more hit than Franchy total. As for the Beni portion, I still root for the kid. I want both sides to win in this deal, and I want Beni to catch fire, mainly because he was a likeable kid, and he always played hard. I am however about done with Renfroe other than for defensive purposes. He has a hole in his swing large enough to land a lunar module. I'd really like to see Duran in the MLB soonish, I think he would add even more to this offense.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 21, 2021 16:40:36 GMT -5
Re Franchy's deep metrics ... if you intentionally hit the ball medium-hard to the opposite field because you know it can't be defended, Statcast ignores the direction and grades that as a lousy xBA when it's nothing of the sort. Franchy has done that three times, I believe, in a very impressive fashion. He's already demonstrated a Fenway-valuable hitting skill, and he's taken to playing the LF walls as quickly as I can ever remember. That suggests a lot of hard work.
His swing for pull power is completely MIA. He can't make anything remotely approaching square contact when not moderating his bat speed to go the other way. It's kind of extraordinary how messed up the swing is.
He's not the first guy to lose his swing for a stretch, and I don't think it's tougher to fix a grossly messed up swing than one that's just a crucial bit off, unless he has multiple, separate flaws.
It used to take Manny 50 PA playing every game to fix his swing, and that's typical. Franchy has 41 PA, and as a platoon player. There's actually no expectation that he would have fixed his swing already, given that he started the season messed up. We're four or more bad starts away from even suspecting he has JBJ Syndrome.
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Post by manfred on Apr 21, 2021 17:23:09 GMT -5
Re Franchy's deep metrics ... if you intentionally hit the ball medium-hard to the opposite field because you know it can't be defended, Statcast ignores the direction and grades that as a lousy xBA when it's nothing of the sort. Franchy has done that three times, I believe, in a very impressive fashion. He's already demonstrated a Fenway-valuable hitting skill, and he's taken to playing the LF walls as quickly as I can ever remember. That suggests a lot of hard work.
His swing for pull power is completely MIA. He can't make anything remotely approaching square contact when not moderating his bat speed to go the other way. It's kind of extraordinary how messed up the swing is.
He's not the first guy to lose his swing for a stretch, and I don't think it's tougher to fix a grossly messed up swing than one that's just a crucial bit off, unless he has multiple, separate flaws.
It used to take Manny 50 PA playing every game to fix his swing, and that's typical. Franchy has 41 PA, and as a platoon player. There's actually no expectation that he would have fixed his swing already, given that he started the season messed up. We're four or more bad starts away from even suspecting he has JBJ Syndrome.
I’ve watch every one of his ABs this season, I believe, and I think it might be generous to say he is intentionally dinking shots to the opposite field. He does not seem to me to be Mr. Bat Control. As for the low ABs... yes. If the Sox are going to fix him, it is far too soon to say they can’t. Let him play out 2021. But I think it is fair to say that they *haven’t* fixed him... by which I mean that given his extreme BABIP, his lack of punch and his lack of contact, this version of Franchy is not good enough to be a part of the plan.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 24, 2021 7:20:18 GMT -5
Benny Homer!
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 24, 2021 7:50:13 GMT -5
Re Franchy's deep metrics ... if you intentionally hit the ball medium-hard to the opposite field because you know it can't be defended, Statcast ignores the direction and grades that as a lousy xBA when it's nothing of the sort. Franchy has done that three times, I believe, in a very impressive fashion. He's already demonstrated a Fenway-valuable hitting skill, and he's taken to playing the LF walls as quickly as I can ever remember. That suggests a lot of hard work.
His swing for pull power is completely MIA. He can't make anything remotely approaching square contact when not moderating his bat speed to go the other way. It's kind of extraordinary how messed up the swing is.
He's not the first guy to lose his swing for a stretch, and I don't think it's tougher to fix a grossly messed up swing than one that's just a crucial bit off, unless he has multiple, separate flaws.
It used to take Manny 50 PA playing every game to fix his swing, and that's typical. Franchy has 41 PA, and as a platoon player. There's actually no expectation that he would have fixed his swing already, given that he started the season messed up. We're four or more bad starts away from even suspecting he has JBJ Syndrome.
I’ve watch every one of his ABs this season, I believe, and I think it might be generous to say he is intentionally dinking shots to the opposite field. He does not seem to me to be Mr. Bat Control. As for the low ABs... yes. If the Sox are going to fix him, it is far too soon to say they can’t. Let him play out 2021. But I think it is fair to say that they *haven’t* fixed him... by which I mean that given his extreme BABIP, his lack of punch and his lack of contact, this version of Franchy is not good enough to be a part of the plan. I haven't seen all of his ABs but I have seen him intentionally go opposite field for sure, no doubt about it. One in particular he fouled off multiple pitches to finally get there. It was an impressive AB so maybe there is something there, he does look terrible more often than not though. Lots of work to do but hopefully he comes around, the athleticism is there but he is obviously a bit lost.
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Post by manfred on Apr 24, 2021 9:39:24 GMT -5
Beni and Franchy now tied at .1 bWAR.
The one area that seems likeliest to move in each case is Beni’s OBP and Franchy’s slugging. Whatever else, Beni should walk a bit more, and Franchy should eventually hit a homer.
It is a thrilling race.
Interesting note on Beni: while all his power numbers have crashed, and many side indicators are down (low launch angle etc)... he has the highest EV of his career this season at 89.6. 2019 was the only other season over 89.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 24, 2021 11:38:36 GMT -5
Beni and Franchy now tied at .1 bWAR. The one area that seems likeliest to move in each case is Beni’s OBP and Franchy’s slugging. Whatever else, Beni should walk a bit more, and Franchy should eventually hit a homer. It is a thrilling race. Interesting note on Beni: while all his power numbers have crashed, and many side indicators are down (low launch angle etc)... he has the highest EV of his career this season at 89.6. 2019 was the only other season over 89. The fact that the race is like this is sad for both teams, but more so for KC. Franchy is just a filler/experimental piece and really the value of the trade is tied to the lottery tickets. If the Sox win or tie on Franchy alone, woof.
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Post by manfred on Apr 24, 2021 11:45:31 GMT -5
Beni and Franchy now tied at .1 bWAR. The one area that seems likeliest to move in each case is Beni’s OBP and Franchy’s slugging. Whatever else, Beni should walk a bit more, and Franchy should eventually hit a homer. It is a thrilling race. Interesting note on Beni: while all his power numbers have crashed, and many side indicators are down (low launch angle etc)... he has the highest EV of his career this season at 89.6. 2019 was the only other season over 89. The fact that the race is like this is sad for both teams, but more so for KC. Franchy is just a filler/experimental piece and really the value of the trade is tied to the lottery tickets. If the Sox win or tie on Franchy alone, woof. The thing that could sting for KC is Lee. In the straight LF exchange, I totally see why KC prefers Beni, and he could still be salvageable. If the Sox end up with something good from the Mets, I do wonder if KC would have been better off doing a straight trade of Lee to the Mets. But they are in first and likely thought Beni might help a core make the playoffs.
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 24, 2021 11:51:57 GMT -5
The thing that could sting for KC is Lee. In the straight LF exchange, I totally see why KC prefers Beni, and he could still be salvageable. If the Sox end up with something good from the Mets, I do wonder if KC would have been better off doing a straight trade of Lee to the Mets. But they are in first and likely thought Beni might help a core make the playoffs. Can't see the title without thinking that even if it is bad in a two way, it's OK in a three way.
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art
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Posts: 335
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Post by art on Apr 24, 2021 20:52:06 GMT -5
Hence the “not even close to warm” bat part of that tweet. I’d say it’s pretty impressive that he’s managed to come through in big spots in spite of all of that He also has a .500 BABIP. I’m new to advanced stats. Is that sustainable? Interestingly, it isn’t cause he is smoking the ball. He is in the 29th percentile for EV. My main point is actually not to s—t on Franchy. Note I want to bench Renfroe, but I’d let Franchy ride pretty much all season. See if he adjusts. But.... for all our talk about Beni being toast, and as terrible as he has been, he is *beating* Franchy in all of the numbers I cited. He is nearly doubling him for EV! But Beni has a .275 BABIP (not as good as the .500). It seems that since Beni was good and is sucking, we are saying, well, he is sucking. But other than that BABIP, there is not much space between the two. So it seems like they should be held to the same standard. (That is, if we are going to give Franchy the benefit of the doubt that he will heat up, why not give Beni the same grace?). I’m glad we are not enduring Beni’s sad end. I am less glad to replace him with a guy who is not showing that much more. I’ve said before... it doesn’t matter. The next great Sox OF will likely be Verdugo, Duran, and someone not currently on the radar. It's partly because he has gotten some generous scoring by the official scorer on some ground balls he's hit that have been muffed. When you only have 9 hits a couple of gifts really help out.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 25, 2021 18:20:33 GMT -5
Not really a Benny comment or Cordero. We have one outfielder. I’m hoping Duran becomes another. Even if he does(fingers crossed), I’d like to get another for beyond this year. Marte makes 12m. We’d have to deal Richards to stay under luxury tax. Starling is a free agent after this year. Shouldn’t command a high return. Make a deal and see if he’s interested in an extension.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 25, 2021 19:16:32 GMT -5
He also has a .500 BABIP. I’m new to advanced stats. Is that sustainable? Interestingly, it isn’t cause he is smoking the ball. He is in the 29th percentile for EV. My main point is actually not to s—t on Franchy. Note I want to bench Renfroe, but I’d let Franchy ride pretty much all season. See if he adjusts. But.... for all our talk about Beni being toast, and as terrible as he has been, he is *beating* Franchy in all of the numbers I cited. He is nearly doubling him for EV! But Beni has a .275 BABIP (not as good as the .500). It seems that since Beni was good and is sucking, we are saying, well, he is sucking. But other than that BABIP, there is not much space between the two. So it seems like they should be held to the same standard. (That is, if we are going to give Franchy the benefit of the doubt that he will heat up, why not give Beni the same grace?). I’m glad we are not enduring Beni’s sad end. I am less glad to replace him with a guy who is not showing that much more. I’ve said before... it doesn’t matter. The next great Sox OF will likely be Verdugo, Duran, and someone not currently on the radar. It's partly because he has gotten some generous scoring by the official scorer on some ground balls he's hit that have been muffed. When you only have 9 hits a couple of gifts really help out. The scoring on one of those (4/19) was changed the next day to an error, FYI. Based on his spray chart it looks like he's only got one groundball hit.
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Post by unitspin on Apr 25, 2021 19:59:31 GMT -5
Benny, 2-4 today with a sb. Batting a whopping .225. He did hit a homer recently maybe he is turning a corner.
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