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Red Sox sign Marwin Gonzalez
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Post by Jimmy on Feb 11, 2021 19:56:02 GMT -5
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Post by soxstan96 on Feb 11, 2021 20:06:38 GMT -5
My lips to Chaim's ears lol. Not a terribly exciting signing, but it's one that makes complete sense. If we can somehow get him back to his 2017 form, we'd be cooking.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,231
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Post by cdj on Feb 11, 2021 20:08:05 GMT -5
Seems like they want a short bench
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 11, 2021 20:09:51 GMT -5
How are the acoustics around the 3rd base line?
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Post by Canseco on Feb 11, 2021 20:13:47 GMT -5
Not a great look, but it's nice to have the defensive flexibility.
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Post by wildsox on Feb 11, 2021 20:23:19 GMT -5
Not overly excited about this one. But it's only a 1 year deal and he's played for Cora before. And we can plug him into a few different positions.
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Post by greenmonster on Feb 11, 2021 20:36:21 GMT -5
My lips to Chaim's ears lol. Not a terribly exciting signing, but it's one that makes complete sense. If we can somehow get him back to his 2017 form, we'd be cooking. I wonder if Cora has any ideas
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,837
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Post by TearsIn04 on Feb 11, 2021 20:59:34 GMT -5
CB is exploiting the new inefficiency in BB this winter: low OBP. It's underrated.
Marwin Gonzalez posted a .377 in his cheaty, outlier 2017 season and hasn't had another year above .327. For his career, he's at a robust .317. He was .286 in a not so-SSS of 199 PAs last year.
We could see some quick innings with him, Renfroe, Franchy and KKH getting playing time.
But it's a one-year, low-money deal, so no harm. I guess.
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Post by manfred on Feb 11, 2021 21:01:56 GMT -5
So how do we anticipate this outfield working? Verdugo now in CF, right? Cordero/Renfroe in LF? Marwin/Kiké in RF? Or a different mix? Can someone explain how they mesh, because I’m too lazy to look at all the splits.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 11, 2021 21:15:58 GMT -5
Seems like they want a short bench They need to. If you look at the pitching - assume there are no injuries - I know, I know. For the rotation: E-Rod, Eovaldi, Richards, Perez, Pivetta For the bullpen: Barnes, Ottavino, Brasier, Sawamura, Hernandez, Taylor, Andriese, Whitlock That's 13 pitchers that they're kind of lock into. So that would mean a 4 man bench. So that's Plawecki, Gonzalez, Arroyo, Munoz or something like that. Perhaps Moreland can't be added, but I'd still like to see it.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,231
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Post by cdj on Feb 11, 2021 21:31:56 GMT -5
So how do we anticipate this outfield working? Verdugo now in CF, right? Cordero/Renfroe in LF? Marwin/Hernandezin RF? Or a different mix? Can someone explain how they mesh, because Iâm too lazy to look at all the splits. Marwin doesnt have a platoon split and he has been equally meh against righties and lefties Kiké isnt as pronounced as one might expect, one year was an EXTREME split. Like borderline comical. The rest werenât as drastic and in some cases he even hit righties better The OF is super weird to me right now. Marwin seems better in LF than RF at Fenway. Cordero/Renfroe should be a platoon imo- ideally in left but Iâm sure they can handle right without being a major negative. Kiké and Verdugo can play all 3 spots. They have a ton of flexibility so they can just ride the hot hands all year long. Still have no idea what the OF will look like though
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Post by Canseco on Feb 11, 2021 21:46:57 GMT -5
This has been a pretty depressing offseason, but it reaches a new low when one realizes Marwin Gonzalez’s signing—especially in the aftermath of trading Benintendi—likely means Jackie is gone.
Other than a small handful of remaining homegrown guys, this has the potential to be a bummer roster. Like, early 90s rosters bummer.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Feb 11, 2021 21:47:07 GMT -5
I still think the Sox will have a 4 man bench. Moreland is now gone as a target, however. Unless they plan on using Gonzalez full-time at LF. Then Moreland can still be had.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Feb 11, 2021 21:48:50 GMT -5
Seems like they want a short bench They need to. If you look at the pitching - assume there are no injuries - I know, I know. For the rotation: E-Rod, Eovaldi, Richards, Perez, Pivetta For the bullpen: Barnes, Ottavino, Brasier, Sawamura, Hernandez, Taylor, Andriese, Whitlock That's 13 pitchers that they're kind of lock into. So that would mean a 4 man bench. So that's Plawecki, Gonzalez, Arroyo, Munoz or something like that. Perhaps Moreland can't be added, but I'd still like to see it. Take Moreland over Arroyo also. Arroyo of no real need with so many on the roster capable of playing 2b and that's not even counting Chavis. Question would be signing Moreland would require another 2-4m of now precious cap space, which is growing scarcer.
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Post by manfred on Feb 11, 2021 21:53:54 GMT -5
They need to. If you look at the pitching - assume there are no injuries - I know, I know. For the rotation: E-Rod, Eovaldi, Richards, Perez, Pivetta For the bullpen: Barnes, Ottavino, Brasier, Sawamura, Hernandez, Taylor, Andriese, Whitlock That's 13 pitchers that they're kind of lock into. So that would mean a 4 man bench. So that's Plawecki, Gonzalez, Arroyo, Munoz or something like that. Perhaps Moreland can't be added, but I'd still like to see it. Take Moreland over Arroyo also. Arroyo of no real need with so many on the roster capable of playing 2b and that's not even counting Chavis. Question would be signing Moreland would require another 2-4m of now precious cap space, which is growing scarcer. There is logic to Moreland to mitigate the risk with Dalbec. Plus, he seems like a good dude to have in the clubhouse. Plus, they can trade him again at the deadline if necessary.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 11, 2021 22:07:29 GMT -5
This has been a pretty depressing offseason, but it reaches a new low when one realizes Marwin Gonzalez’s signing—especially in the aftermath of trading Benintendi—likely means Jackie is gone. Other than a small handful of remaining homegrown guys, this has the potential to be a bummer roster. Like, early 90s rosters bummer. If your criteria is homegrown guys, you must've hated the '04 team. I think Youkilis, Garciaparra, and Nixon were the only guys on the team that they'd drafted who got significant playing time.
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Post by manfred on Feb 11, 2021 22:21:12 GMT -5
This has been a pretty depressing offseason, but it reaches a new low when one realizes Marwin Gonzalez’s signing—especially in the aftermath of trading Benintendi—likely means Jackie is gone. Other than a small handful of remaining homegrown guys, this has the potential to be a bummer roster. Like, early 90s rosters bummer. If your criteria is homegrown guys, you must've hated the '04 team. I think Youkilis, Garciaparra, and Nixon were the only guys on the team that they'd drafted who got significant playing time. In fairness, I don’t think that’s what he said. I get people disagree on how much all these moves help this year, but I can’t imagine even the most sanguine amongst us have a hard time getting that some might see a distinct lack of charisma in the incoming players. That is a separate matter, so I’m not arguing “the plan.” I’m just saying it is not that common that guys listed as utility men or platoon guys lead to a rush on new jerseys. Many of them scream transitional (Marwin, age 32, one year contract, utility... it’s like he just said “I’ll be right back”). Now... I will add that Dave Roberts didn’t likely light any fires when he joined the team. Bellhorn. etc. So maybe Kiké is the next Sox legend. But I don’t see it as absurd to look at these moves as perhaps clinical but not exciting. And... equally, sure it is fair to say exciting is often a mistake. Bauer and Springer would’ve been mistakes, headlines aside. So, again, this is not about how things may or may not shake out... but when you lose multiple fan favorites — and even Bloom acknowledged it — it is a bummer.
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Post by Canseco on Feb 11, 2021 22:32:01 GMT -5
This has been a pretty depressing offseason, but it reaches a new low when one realizes Marwin Gonzalez’s signing—especially in the aftermath of trading Benintendi—likely means Jackie is gone. Other than a small handful of remaining homegrown guys, this has the potential to be a bummer roster. Like, early 90s rosters bummer. If your criteria is homegrown guys, you must've hated the '04 team. I think Youkilis, Garciaparra, and Nixon were the only guys on the team that they'd drafted who got significant playing time. No. It's not all about homegrown guys, and there is a slight difference between an '04 type roster and this one. The former oozed star power and was coming off a successful, albeit crushing 2003. Expectations were sky high. They added guys like Schilling and Foulke to a roster that already had Pedro, Nomar, Manny, etc. Not depressing. The latter has some sentimental favorites such as Bogaerts, Devers, Vazquez, and Sale, but it will likely lose 2/3 of a beloved championship outfield in one offseason (after, of course, moving Mookie the offseason prior). It just feels like a collection of misfit toys mixed in with a likable core. Top it all off with the stench attached to the Marwin Gonzalez-Alex Cora ties, and, yeah, I find this to be, on paper, a pretty depressing roster.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 11, 2021 23:04:28 GMT -5
Can't say I'm excited to see mediocre Marwin Gonzalez added, but I guess it kind of makes sense and fits in with what Bloom has been doing, which is why I was pretty sure that Marwin Gonzalez was going to wind up on the Red Sox, given the Cora connection, and the fact that he can play multiple positions and that they needed a LH bat who can platoon with Renfroe or Hernandez if need be.
My guess is that Gonzalez is going to see steady time in LF, probably splitting time with Kiké Hernandez. You'll see Verdugo in CF, and my guess is that we'll actually see Franchy Cordero platooning in RF with Hunter Renfroe. As somebody pointed out, Marwin Gonzalez is inexperienced in RF, so his presence in RF is unlikely.
Cordero is probably not a great OF, but he has played some CF and has some speed, so it's more likely that he can cover ground, plus I think he has a decent arm, so I think he actually winds up in RF platooning with Renfroe.
So against righties, the outfield alignment would be Gonzalez/Verdugo/Cordero. Against southpaws, it might be Hernandez/Verdugo/Renfroe.
Which means that against righties Hernandez plays 2b and Arroyo winds up at 2b against lefties, I suppose.
Either way you slice it, not only offensively, but defensively that a huge step down from the Killer Bs outfield.
I would think that the Sox end game to the outfield would be that in time this season, hopefully sooner than later (by some point in May or June), the outfield alignment would wind up with the Cordero/Renfroe platoon shifting to LF, with Verdugo sliding over to RF to make room for Jarren Duran. While not in a league with their predecessors, I would think that outfield alignment defensively would be more palatable.
At this point, I'd have to think Duran is central to their plan in the outfield, because I cannot see the Sox spending the whole entire season with guys being stretched defensively and nobody playing the position they're best suited for. I mean Verdugo is more of a natural RF, and is a better fit at Fenway Park in that capacity. Cordero and Renfroe would be better suited for LF. And the Sox could use Duran's speed in CF.
I would think because Gonzalez is ultimately a utility man, that the plan is to start him as a platoon regular but have him hit the bench or perhaps platoon with Hernandez at 2b if necessary, not in a straight platoon as I'd still expect Hernandez to get the bulk of the playing time at 2b but probably hit the bench against a tough righty - once Duran is deemed ready to take over CF.
I hope the Sox bring in Moreland who'd make a good lefty PH and insurance policy should Dalbec or even JDM struggle.
But I have a feeling that's not in the cards.
If they do add another player it might be somebody who can handle CF as a late inning defensive replacement and pinch-run. I would have thought Billy Hamilton, but he's signed elsewhere now. Maybe that's where Yairo Munoz comes in?
They obviously want versatility. I suspect that's because they want to carry 13 pitchers most if not all season.
As I pointed out in another post, the identity of these 13 pitchers is actually easier to define as opposed to the AAAA filler that the roster had last year, so at least in that respect Bloom did something to improve the team.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 11, 2021 23:31:49 GMT -5
If your criteria is homegrown guys, you must've hated the '04 team. I think Youkilis, Garciaparra, and Nixon were the only guys on the team that they'd drafted who got significant playing time. No. It's not all about homegrown guys, and there is a slight difference between an '04 type roster and this one. The former oozed star power and was coming off a successful, albeit crushing 2003. Expectations were sky high. They added guys like Schilling and Foulke to a roster that already had Pedro, Nomar, Manny, etc. Not depressing. The latter has some sentimental favorites such as Bogaerts, Devers, Vazquez, and Sale, but it will likely lose 2/3 of a beloved championship outfield in one offseason (after, of course, moving Mookie the offseason prior). It just feels like a collection of misfit toys mixed in with a likable core. Top it all off with the stench attached to the Marwin Gonzalez-Alex Cora ties, and, yeah, I find this to be, on paper, a pretty depressing roster. I definitely didn't read your post close enough and was being a bit glib anyway.
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Post by manfred on Feb 11, 2021 23:49:28 GMT -5
No. It's not all about homegrown guys, and there is a slight difference between an '04 type roster and this one. The former oozed star power and was coming off a successful, albeit crushing 2003. Expectations were sky high. They added guys like Schilling and Foulke to a roster that already had Pedro, Nomar, Manny, etc. Not depressing. The latter has some sentimental favorites such as Bogaerts, Devers, Vazquez, and Sale, but it will likely lose 2/3 of a beloved championship outfield in one offseason (after, of course, moving Mookie the offseason prior). It just feels like a collection of misfit toys mixed in with a likable core. Top it all off with the stench attached to the Marwin Gonzalez-Alex Cora ties, and, yeah, I find this to be, on paper, a pretty depressing roster. I definitely didn't read your post close enough and was being a bit glib anyway. Hey, man,it’s cool — it’s the glib season. I’m ready for teams to pack up and play ball.
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Post by benzinger on Feb 12, 2021 0:38:42 GMT -5
This has been a pretty depressing offseason, but it reaches a new low when one realizes Marwin Gonzalez’s signing—especially in the aftermath of trading Benintendi—likely means Jackie is gone. Other than a small handful of remaining homegrown guys, this has the potential to be a bummer roster. Like, early 90s rosters bummer. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Jackie Bradley stinks. His career OPS+ is 94. So, he’s not even league average and his agent is Boras(who somehow thinks he’s getting 5yr/$50m in this market). Good luck to JBJ. His glove was great in CF, but we’ve seen enough of that bat. Let’s see what some other options look like instead.
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Post by benzinger on Feb 12, 2021 0:40:59 GMT -5
Take Moreland over Arroyo also. Arroyo of no real need with so many on the roster capable of playing 2b and that's not even counting Chavis. Question would be signing Moreland would require another 2-4m of now precious cap space, which is growing scarcer. There is logic to Moreland to mitigate the risk with Dalbec. Plus, he seems like a good dude to have in the clubhouse. Plus, they can trade him again at the deadline if necessary. Marwin can play 1B. And I’m still holding out hope that JDM gets some work over there, too. Let him get some work in the field.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,231
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Post by cdj on Feb 12, 2021 0:45:44 GMT -5
This has been a pretty depressing offseason, but it reaches a new low when one realizes Marwin Gonzalez’s signing—especially in the aftermath of trading Benintendi—likely means Jackie is gone. Other than a small handful of remaining homegrown guys, this has the potential to be a bummer roster. Like, early 90s rosters bummer. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Jackie Bradley stinks. Career OPS+ of 94. So, he’s not even league average and his agent is Boras(who somehow thinks he’s getting 5yr/$50m in this market). Good luck to JBJ. His glove was great in CF, but we’ve seen enough of that bat. Let’s see what some other options look like instead. He’s essentially been a 3 WAR player since taking over as a starter, you have zero clue what you’re talking about if you think that “stinks”. Is Mookie Betts merely good by your standards? Also the player profile you described- somebody with a career OPS+ of 94 with an elite glove- isn’t even a description of a player that stinks so i just don’t get it
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Post by benzinger on Feb 12, 2021 0:52:34 GMT -5
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Jackie Bradley stinks. Career OPS+ of 94. So, he’s not even league average and his agent is Boras(who somehow thinks he’s getting 5yr/$50m in this market). Good luck to JBJ. His glove was great in CF, but we’ve seen enough of that bat. Let’s see what some other options look like instead. He’s essentially been a 3 WAR player since taking over as a starter, you have zero clue what you’re talking about if you think that “stinks” Also the player profile you described- somebody with a career OPS+ of 94 with an elite glove- isn’t even a description of a player that stinks so i just don’t get it This board is hilarious with its overrating of JBJ. He’s a lousy hitter with a nice glove. You are generously rounding up to make him a 3 WAR player when he’s only been over that level twice in his career(in fairness, he was headed there in 2020 if it were a full season). Outside of 2016 when he was an all-star, he’s been nothing special at all. And he’s easily replaced. I’m guessing you still hope the Sox sign Brock Holt, too?
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