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4/22-4/25 Red Sox vs. Mariners Series Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2021 13:23:40 GMT -5
I've seen enough of Renfroe. Franchy is a project and I want them to continue to work with him. Kiké is fine, but for the love of all things, move him to 8/9. I know it's supposed to be a bridge kind of year, but this team can do well with an extra bat that's on an expiring contract. Plus, they get Chris Sale back in a couple of months which would be like a big time trade acquisition.
I like this team, but there's a lot of dead weight. I don't like Richards and I don't care what his underlying numbers say. Pivetta is doing well, but he really needs to get those walks down. Pérez is a 5 and you live with what he gives you. He'll keep you in games and give up occasional clunkers.
I think I'm just really angry with how yesterday's game went. This felt like a bad team. 7 runs on 3 hits on a game you were winning late? Lead off triple garnished 1 run, on a wild pitch. Just awful.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 23, 2021 13:24:20 GMT -5
Yeah, fair to criticize the Richards signing, but I reject the premise that he didn't have to add a starting pitcher in the off-season. But once you do that, your options become pretty constrained for the lineup. *Verdugo is an ideal leadoff guy.* I mean, not ideal ideal, but he'd be quite good in that role and I am very confused about why it hasn't been given to him.
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Post by manfred on Apr 23, 2021 13:44:49 GMT -5
Yeah, fair to criticize the Richards signing, but I reject the premise that he didn't have to add a starting pitcher in the off-season. But once you do that, your options become pretty constrained for the lineup. *Verdugo is an ideal leadoff guy.* I mean, not ideal ideal, but he'd be quite good in that role and I am very confused about why it hasn't been given to him. My defense of not adding a starter is that getting a high-risk back-end guy is not a huge addition. I’d basically just as soon had them add Porcello on a minor league contract to eat innings. If you *do* want to spend, then do it. But in for a penny, in for a pound. Get someone more reliable even if he’s more expensive. The problem is this was a terrible FA class. But I’m a fan of saying sure, we’d like to sign a starter, but we aren’t seeing what we want, so we won’t just take a bad choice. Pablo was a perfect example of that thinking. Need a 3B, no clear great ones, he’s the best of a bad lot, so here we go.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 23, 2021 13:47:04 GMT -5
Yeah, fair to criticize the Richards signing, but I reject the premise that he didn't have to add a starting pitcher in the off-season. But once you do that, your options become pretty constrained for the lineup. *Verdugo is an ideal leadoff guy.* I mean, not ideal ideal, but he'd be quite good in that role and I am very confused about why it hasn't been given to him. Exactly. Verdugo is their best option. They say that you want your best hitter 2nd....so with that in mind, I'd go: Verdugo Bogaerts Devers Martinez Vazquez Dalbec Arroyo Cordero/Renfroe/Gonzalez Hernandez Someone (stan) mentioned Hector Rondon. Maybe he can help their pen. He's probably the guy in their minor league system that can possibly handle the 8th inning. He hasn't been great himself, but at least he's another possibility besides Ryan Brasier. As far as lefties in the pen go.....? They signed Tyler Olson....but that's why I asked about Watson and the possibility of signing him if he hasn't already been signed.
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Post by manfred on Apr 23, 2021 13:53:48 GMT -5
Yeah, fair to criticize the Richards signing, but I reject the premise that he didn't have to add a starting pitcher in the off-season. But once you do that, your options become pretty constrained for the lineup. *Verdugo is an ideal leadoff guy.* I mean, not ideal ideal, but he'd be quite good in that role and I am very confused about why it hasn't been given to him. Exactly. Verdugo is their best option. They say that you want your best hitter 2nd....so with that in mind, I'd go: Verdugo Bogaerts Devers Martinez Vazquez Dalbec Arroyo Cordero/Renfroe/Gonzalez Hernandez That works for me, but to be honest I can’t see how Kiké leading off has hurt them. And I can’t see how... after the first... have Kiké/Verdugo be 9-1 or 1-2 makes a difference. Ultimately, we are talking about the first at-bat. Or... we are talking about Kiké’s overall approach, which is what it is at 9 or 1. I don’t think a shift in leadoff *from this lineup* will change anything. Maybe if Duran can get on, with his speed, they have a different weapon. My feeling is they need to spread the production and OBP. Dalbec is going to keep getting better, I think. But after around the 5 or 6 hitter, things can be dicey depending on what Cora lines up.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2021 14:10:12 GMT -5
Does Verdugo have history hitting lead off? I'm wondering if there's a reason he doesn't, such as maybe he feels uncomfortable in that spot? There's still a human element and baseball players are creatures of habit.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Apr 23, 2021 14:12:28 GMT -5
Exactly. Verdugo is their best option. They say that you want your best hitter 2nd....so with that in mind, I'd go: Verdugo Bogaerts Devers Martinez Vazquez Dalbec Arroyo Cordero/Renfroe/Gonzalez Hernandez That works for me, but to be honest I can’t see how Kiké leading off has hurt them. And I can’t see how... after the first... have Kiké/Verdugo be 9-1 or 1-2 makes a difference. Ultimately, we are talking about the first at-bat. Or... we are talking about Kiké’s overall approach, which is what it is at 9 or 1. I don’t think a shift in leadoff *from this lineup* will change anything. Maybe if Duran can get on, with his speed, they have a different weapon. My feeling is they need to spread the production and OBP. Dalbec is going to keep getting better, I think. But after around the 5 or 6 hitter, things can be dicey depending on what Cora lines up. I think spreading out the production is actually the exact wrong idea. I'd rather sequence the hits together than spread them out and strand a runner every inning. There's a reason teams have been sticking their worst hitters in the 7-9 holes for a hundred years.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 23, 2021 14:12:45 GMT -5
Exactly. Verdugo is their best option. They say that you want your best hitter 2nd....so with that in mind, I'd go: Verdugo Bogaerts Devers Martinez Vazquez Dalbec Arroyo Cordero/Renfroe/Gonzalez Hernandez That works for me, but to be honest I can’t see how Kiké leading off has hurt them. And I can’t see how... after the first... have Kiké/Verdugo be 9-1 or 1-2 makes a difference. Ultimately, we are talking about the first at-bat. Or... we are talking about Kiké’s overall approach, which is what it is at 9 or 1. I don’t think a shift in leadoff *from this lineup* will change anything. Maybe if Duran can get on, with his speed, they have a different weapon. My feeling is they need to spread the production and OBP. Dalbec is going to keep getting better, I think. But after around the 5 or 6 hitter, things can be dicey depending on what Cora lines up. It hurts them because you have a guy with a sub .300 OBP getting the most plate appearances per game if he plays regularly. That's more outs at the top of the lineup. His SA is alright so he'd be fine toward the bottom of the order although I think he'd do better if spotted against lefties. I know that his split is reverse right now but based on his long track record he'd be much better off hitting the bench against some righties. Don't think the Sox have the personnel available to make that happen right now. But that's why I feel his leading off is a bad idea. I'd rather he get 4 plate appearances per game than 5.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 23, 2021 14:18:04 GMT -5
Does Verdugo have history hitting lead off? I'm wondering if there's a reason he doesn't, such as maybe he feels uncomfortable in that spot? There's still a human element and baseball players are creatures of habit. He did it all last season and had the best stats of his career.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2021 14:28:40 GMT -5
Does Verdugo have history hitting lead off? I'm wondering if there's a reason he doesn't, such as maybe he feels uncomfortable in that spot? There's still a human element and baseball players are creatures of habit. He did it all last season and had the best stats of his career. Thank you for that. Honestly I tuned out for much of that debacle of a season so my memory of 2020 isn't great. So, there's no excuse for Verdugo hitting 2nd. Verdugo has a .350 OBP with JD, Xander, Devers and Marwin ahead of him. None of those guys I want batting lead off. Kiké has a .279. It's atrocious that he's in that spot and I feel like Cora is making him an unfair target.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 23, 2021 15:04:56 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Apr 23, 2021 15:08:52 GMT -5
I don’t really care about the changes from any “integrity” standpoint, but I’ll be interested to see if they hasten the end of extra inning games. What I don’t get is if you make it easier for both teams to score a run in the same way, aren’t you just creating the likelihood a 3-3 tie becomes a 4-4 tie, then a 5-5 tie... etc?
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Post by incandenza on Apr 23, 2021 15:27:18 GMT -5
He did it all last season and had the best stats of his career. Thank you for that. Honestly I tuned out for much of that debacle of a season so my memory of 2020 isn't great. So, there's no excuse for Verdugo hitting 2nd. Verdugo has a .350 OBP with JD, Xander, Devers and Marwin ahead of him. None of those guys I want batting lead off. Kiké has a .279. It's atrocious that he's in that spot and I feel like Cora is making him an unfair target. I'd rather have Marwin lead off, to be honest. His OBP is slightly higher for his career and in each of the last three seasons.
Or I'm fine with Kiké leading off only against lefties, and then they could have Marwin against righties, if they're really determined to have Verdugo bat 2nd, but for some reason that doesn't seem to be on the table.
ADD: Wasn't the idea that they were gonna get Kiké to "hunt fastballs" early in the count (i.e., swing at more pitches)? Well, it's all very SSS, but so far his ISO is up a bit but his BB% is down to 3.5%. More power, fewer walks - just what you want in a leadoff hitter, right?
On balance it's working out, more or less, as he has a respectable 96 wRC+. Which would be great for an 8 or 9 hitter...
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 23, 2021 16:23:36 GMT -5
Duran should be leading off very soon. And, playing LF.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,505
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 23, 2021 17:19:53 GMT -5
I know it's a hack thing to say, but after his first start, Richards comments seem to indicate to me he wasn't a great fit for Boston. Maybe he'll turn it around, maybe he won't, but I don't trust him one bit.
I think it should be a platoon for LF, with Franchy getting the early AB's in a game, and then switching to Renfroe late in the game defensively. Verdugo should be starting almost EVERY game unless he has an injury. And Duran should be getting called up soonish to play CF/LF. Arroyo should be your starting 2B now until Duran comes up, but Kiké needs to be dropped in the order. Dalbec should be given an extended leash but if he's struggling I'm fine with Marwin manning 1B, roaming the outfield, or giving guys a blow on the dirt, his offensive numbers haven't been great, but I don't think I appreciated how well he can play at almost every position.
I really think Duran can make a huge difference in this lineup, he did all spring, timely hitting with some pop, and a blast of speed we just don't have right now on the ballclub. If they are willing to throw Franchy out there even with his suspect defense, Duran to me is an upgrade. They have to find some solution for the bottom of that order so it isn't always a guaranteed fast inning. Not a major reshuffle, but hitting Vasquez down there would at least give them a chance to start something and turn it over to the top of their lineup, who ultimately I believe should be Verdugo.
In my mind their lineup should be:
Verdugo Arroyo Xander Devers JD Kiké Francy (or Duran when he comes up) Vasquez Dalbec
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2021 17:43:58 GMT -5
Duran should be leading off very soon. And, playing LF. I like Duran, but hit him 8th or 9th until he earns moving up in the order. No need to put extra pressure on the kid.
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Post by kjkramer on Apr 23, 2021 18:04:36 GMT -5
Let's steal tonight and dominate the next 2
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Apr 23, 2021 18:04:53 GMT -5
Duran should be leading off very soon. And, playing LF. I like Duran, but hit him 8th or 9th until he earns moving up in the order. No need to put extra pressure on the kid. Duran deserves some time in AAA Meanwhile, they've got players to fill in, ride the bench during injuries: Wilson, Munoz, Rosario, Arauz, Chavis
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2021 18:20:05 GMT -5
This is going to be a Perez clunker.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2021 18:22:30 GMT -5
Thank you Xander.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 23, 2021 18:23:14 GMT -5
Duran should be leading off very soon. And, playing LF. Has he been getting at bats?
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Post by Guidas on Apr 23, 2021 18:26:11 GMT -5
Also, am I the only one who thinks KiKi should be batting 8th?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2021 18:28:46 GMT -5
I like seeing the number 2 hitter get a hit with 1 out almost every time they get on.
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 23, 2021 18:29:57 GMT -5
I like seeing the number 2 hitter get a hit with 1 out almost every time they get on. tbf, Hernandez hit a hard groundball against the shift, which would go as a hit most of the time.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 23, 2021 18:32:35 GMT -5
X gonna do it to ya!
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