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4/29-5/2 Red Sox @ Rangers Series Thread
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Post by incandenza on May 1, 2021 16:15:54 GMT -5
Benny just called up to say, hi. We could prob use a OF of his caliber right now. Jeez, I look away for a few days and suddenly he's up to a .334 wOBA/117 wRC+. In fact, since April 7th he's at .324/111 not even counting today (but had an 89 wRC+ overall as of this morning).
That's a pretty good lesson about trying to draw conclusions from April stats.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 1, 2021 16:34:44 GMT -5
Hated that trade. Sold low on Benintendi to make room for Ottavino, and now we’re also stuck with Renfroe starting against righties.
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Post by grandsalami on May 1, 2021 16:41:20 GMT -5
Benny just called up to say, hi. We could prob use a OF of his caliber right now. Jeez, I look away for a few days and suddenly he's up to a .334 wOBA/117 wRC+. In fact, since April 7th he's at .324/111 not even counting today (but had an 89 wRC+ overall as of this morning). That's a pretty good lesson about trying to draw conclusions from April stats.
Let’s also see if this is anything more than a one week hot streak
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Post by incandenza on May 1, 2021 16:43:40 GMT -5
Hated that trade. Sold low on Benintendi to make room for Ottavino, and now we’re also stuck with Renfroe starting against righties. Not to rehash that trade yet again, but if it was done to make room for Ottavino as you say, then it was a downgrade at LF* in exchange for an upgrade in the bullpen + 5 prospects: Winckowski, German, and the 3 PTBNLs. No one has to love that trade, but we should at least be clear about what was exchanged for what.
*But we don't even know it's a downgrade yet! If Benintendi can go from an 89 wRC+ to 117 in a single day, surely not all hope is lost for Hunchy Rendero.
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Post by Guidas on May 1, 2021 17:00:08 GMT -5
Darwinzon looks like a demon again So does Benintendi. I said Bloom was an idiot to trade him and I stand by it. I do 't know what data set convinced him to do it - especially for the bag of crap he got in return - but they were measuring the wrong things.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 1, 2021 17:02:39 GMT -5
Darwinzon looks like a demon again So does Benintendi. I said Bloom was an idiot to trade him and I stand by it. I do 't know what data set convinced him to do it - especially for the bag of crap he got in return - but they were measuring the wrong things. Probably the data set that saw him decline in every measurable way from 2018 I’m rooting for the guy, I’m happy he’s doing well. I’m not convinced he figures it out here and I’d like to see him keep it up before I call a trade a bust when I don’t know 3 of the main pieces...
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 1, 2021 17:09:56 GMT -5
I get trading Beni, and I never thought Franchy had a snowball’s chance of being our LF... but I anticipate the prospects. Still... serious question: when was the last time a Sox GM got such a free pass? I mean, they were terrible last year when he went with a little league pitching staff, and people said “Dombrowski left them bad off.” Fine. This year, the Cherington/Dombrowski Sox are on fire, and the off-season FA acquisitions are a very mixed bag... including, for the first time, a total-Bloom OF that is barely positive WAR (and is worse than last year’s). But he wanted to save money etc. So... pass. Many of his trades are “too soon to tell,” based on prospects... a number of whom could be a few years away. So, for example, the Beni trade can’t be judged until, say, 2024? So pass until then?
I guess it just seems like I don’t remember Theo or Ben or DD getting zero grief for their moves that flopped (or appeared to). Hell, DD got destroyed for the Pom trade, but Pom is a dominant reliever now and AE is... I think throwing? And remember part of the argument and as what he *could* have gotten for AE. DD got murdered for his Eovaldi extension, and who is this year’s #1?
I’ve basically seen a guy playing the paper clip game backwards. Start with a WS champion and get... Hunter Renfroe? Kiké Hernandez? But I guess that is not fair until 2024?
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Post by Guidas on May 1, 2021 17:16:38 GMT -5
Hated that trade. Sold low on Benintendi to make room for Ottavino, and now we’re also stuck with Renfroe starting against righties. How much “room” did they have to make? The difference between Renfroe’s salary and Benintendi is $2M a year. That’s roughly 1% of the current luxury tax-applicable salary for this year. Pennywise and Benni foolish.
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Post by Guidas on May 1, 2021 17:18:06 GMT -5
So does Benintendi. I said Bloom was an idiot to trade him and I stand by it. I do 't know what data set convinced him to do it - especially for the bag of crap he got in return - but they were measuring the wrong things. Probably the data set that saw him decline in every measurable way from 2018 I’m rooting for the guy, I’m happy he’s doing well. I’m not convinced he figures it out here and I’d like to see him keep it up before I call a trade a bust when I don’t know 3 of the main pieces... That should be counted as a 1-year decline sine 2020’s data set was barely spring training quality.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 1, 2021 17:18:14 GMT -5
I get trading Beni, and I never thought Franchy had a snowball’s chance of being our LF... but I anticipate the prospects. Still... serious question: when was the last time a Sox GM got such a free pass? I mean, they were terrible last year when he went with a little league pitching staff, and people said “Dombrowski left them bad off.” Fine. This year, the Cherington/Dombrowski Sox are on fire, and the off-season FA acquisitions are a very mixed bag... including, for the first time, a total-Bloom OF that is barely positive WAR (and is worse than last year’s). But he wanted to save money etc. So... pass. Many of his trades are “too soon to tell,” based on prospects... a number of whom could be a few years away. So, for example, the Beni trade can’t be judged until, say, 2024? So pass until then? I guess it just seems like I don’t remember Theo or Ben or DD getting zero grief for their moves that flopped (or appeared to). Hell, DD got destroyed for the Pom trade, but Pom is a dominant reliever now and AE is... I think throwing? DD got murdered for his Eovaldi extension, and who is this year’s #1? I’ve basically seen a guy playing the paper clip game backwards. Start with a WS champion and get... Hunter Renfroe? Kiké Hernandez? But I guess that is not fair until 2024? I mean he probably seems like he gets a free pass when you disingenuously ignore all the good he’s done
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 1, 2021 17:25:02 GMT -5
I get trading Beni, and I never thought Franchy had a snowball’s chance of being our LF... but I anticipate the prospects. Still... serious question: when was the last time a Sox GM got such a free pass? I mean, they were terrible last year when he went with a little league pitching staff, and people said “Dombrowski left them bad off.” Fine. This year, the Cherington/Dombrowski Sox are on fire, and the off-season FA acquisitions are a very mixed bag... including, for the first time, a total-Bloom OF that is barely positive WAR (and is worse than last year’s). But he wanted to save money etc. So... pass. Many of his trades are “too soon to tell,” based on prospects... a number of whom could be a few years away. So, for example, the Beni trade can’t be judged until, say, 2024? So pass until then? I guess it just seems like I don’t remember Theo or Ben or DD getting zero grief for their moves that flopped (or appeared to). Hell, DD got destroyed for the Pom trade, but Pom is a dominant reliever now and AE is... I think throwing? DD got murdered for his Eovaldi extension, and who is this year’s #1? I’ve basically seen a guy playing the paper clip game backwards. Start with a WS champion and get... Hunter Renfroe? Kiké Hernandez? But I guess that is not fair until 2024? I mean he probably seems like he gets a free pass when you disingenuously ignore all the good he’s done I’ve never ignored it. Loved the Ottavino trade. Loved the Workman trade. I like Kiké as a utilityman, but not a CF. Other moves, I’m sure.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 1, 2021 17:25:57 GMT -5
Hated that trade. Sold low on Benintendi to make room for Ottavino, and now we’re also stuck with Renfroe starting against righties. How much “room” did they have to make? The difference between Renfroe’s salary and Benintendi is $2M a year. That’s roughly 1% of the current luxury tax-applicable salary for this year. Pennywise and Benni foolish. Preach, brother. I am wondering the same exact thing.
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Post by incandenza on May 1, 2021 17:26:52 GMT -5
The biggest supporter of Dombrowski here is also the one who's been apoplectic about the Mookie trade since the day it was made, and that fact never ceases to amaze me.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on May 1, 2021 17:27:36 GMT -5
Darwinzon looks like a demon again So does Benintendi. I said Bloom was an idiot to trade him and I stand by it. I do 't know what data set convinced him to do it - especially for the bag of crap he got in return - but they were measuring the wrong things. Well apparently you got leaked the return before anyone else so since you clearly know the entirety of it, can you enlighten us? I don't really want to get into this discussion too much because it's just exceedingly stupid (the trade wasn't some massive steal for the Red Sox but it will likely end up being fine given the prospect haul), but why do you think it was a data set that convinced him to make the trade? I'm not sure if you watched any games last year but he LOOKED abysmal. Like a completely different player. Not saying you throw every guy that struggles over 14 games to the curb but if you like the value you get for him I think you take it, and they clearly feel comfortable with the level of prospect return they're getting if they were fine letting Lee go. This whole thing is just confirmation bias. You are upset about Beni leaving so you whine about every little thing that "proves" your point that it was a bad trade while ignoring the actual logic of the situation. It's very frustrating and I can't believe that a group of adults a) can't see what is very obvious and b) are still relitigating this every two days.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 1, 2021 17:40:45 GMT -5
Anyway... to the present: Kiké is out again. Is he hurt? I haven’t seen anything. Second day in a row of Renfroe vs a RHP, though, fortunately it is a Texas Ranger RHP, so it could work out.
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Post by Guidas on May 1, 2021 17:48:33 GMT -5
So does Benintendi. I said Bloom was an idiot to trade him and I stand by it. I do 't know what data set convinced him to do it - especially for the bag of crap he got in return - but they were measuring the wrong things. Well apparently you got leaked the return before anyone else so since you clearly know the entirety of it, can you enlighten us? I don't really want to get into this discussion too much because it's just exceedingly stupid (the trade wasn't some massive steal for the Red Sox but it will likely end up being fine given the prospect haul), but why do you think it was a data set that convinced him to make the trade? I'm not sure if you watched any games last year but he LOOKED abysmal. Like a completely different player. Not saying you throw every guy that struggles over 14 games to the curb but if you like the value you get for him I think you take it, and they clearly feel comfortable with the level of prospect return they're getting if they were fine letting Lee go. This whole thing is just confirmation bias. You are upset about Beni leaving so you whine about every little thing that "proves" your point that it was a bad trade while ignoring the actual logic of the situation. It's very frustrating and I can't believe that a group of adults a) can't see what is very obvious and b) are still relitigating this every two days. Please. I’ll buy you a steak dinner if any of these guys put up the same or better WAR as Beni from the point of the trade forward. I mean, it may be seven years before anyone can make a call on that but the odds (and about 100 years of MLB data) are against it.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 1, 2021 17:49:20 GMT -5
Hated that trade. Sold low on Benintendi to make room for Ottavino, and now we’re also stuck with Renfroe starting against righties. I think Bloom was making room for Duran.
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Post by kjkramer on May 1, 2021 17:49:23 GMT -5
Off topic, but glad to see Benintendi starting to hit well. I am a big fan of his.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 1, 2021 18:06:13 GMT -5
Jeez, I look away for a few days and suddenly he's up to a .334 wOBA/117 wRC+. In fact, since April 7th he's at .324/111 not even counting today (but had an 89 wRC+ overall as of this morning). That's a pretty good lesson about trying to draw conclusions from April stats.
Let’s also see if this is anything more than a one week hot streak I always liked Beni, and I hope he does well. A GM can not resign everyone, and trading him now got a bigger return than next offseason. Bloom must have felt the team needed Ottavino in the bullpen more than Beni in the outfield. The subtraction of Beni’s salary helped stay under CBT.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 1, 2021 18:14:09 GMT -5
It feels like it would defy the laws of physics if JD, X, or Devers doesn’t homer off Lyles today.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 1, 2021 18:19:16 GMT -5
I get trading Beni, and I never thought Franchy had a snowball’s chance of being our LF... but I anticipate the prospects. Still... serious question: when was the last time a Sox GM got such a free pass? I mean, they were terrible last year when he went with a little league pitching staff, and people said “Dombrowski left them bad off.” Fine. This year, the Cherington/Dombrowski Sox are on fire, and the off-season FA acquisitions are a very mixed bag... including, for the first time, a total-Bloom OF that is barely positive WAR (and is worse than last year’s). But he wanted to save money etc. So... pass. Many of his trades are “too soon to tell,” based on prospects... a number of whom could be a few years away. So, for example, the Beni trade can’t be judged until, say, 2024? So pass until then? I guess it just seems like I don’t remember Theo or Ben or DD getting zero grief for their moves that flopped (or appeared to). Hell, DD got destroyed for the Pom trade, but Pom is a dominant reliever now and AE is... I think throwing? And remember part of the argument and as what he *could* have gotten for AE. DD got murdered for his Eovaldi extension, and who is this year’s #1? I’ve basically seen a guy playing the paper clip game backwards. Start with a WS champion and get... Hunter Renfroe? Kiké Hernandez? But I guess that is not fair until 2024? it is a bridge year. Bloom sign guys to flip. The contracts were mostly 1 year or 1 plus an option. Bloom also did not want to block the prospects coming up. If the moves and prospects do not work out next year Bloom will get criticism with lots and lots of back interest Soto speak.
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Post by unitspin on May 1, 2021 18:19:37 GMT -5
Jeez, I look away for a few days and suddenly he's up to a .334 wOBA/117 wRC+. In fact, since April 7th he's at .324/111 not even counting today (but had an 89 wRC+ overall as of this morning). That's a pretty good lesson about trying to draw conclusions from April stats.
Let’s also see if this is anything more than a one week hot streak 100% he could be batting .180 at the seasons end. I think he will settle in and be a solid player but it could go either way.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 1, 2021 18:21:14 GMT -5
My wife just asked me “is Dalbec is the new Benintendi?”
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 1, 2021 18:27:22 GMT -5
My wife just asked me “is Dalbec is the new Benintendi?” Lol, he is not an outfielder and does not hit left handed, other than that ....well no he is not. Lol
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 1, 2021 18:29:23 GMT -5
My wife just asked me “is Dalbec is the new Benintendi?” Lol, he is not an outfielder and does not hit left handed, other than that ....well no he is not. Lol Yeah its probably because he looks kinda like him lol
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