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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 10:16:57 GMT -5
Could Bloom be interested in Matthew Boyd? Should he be? I hope not. His track record beyond last year isn't good and the Sox at some point have to fill the hole in the rotation with something other than a fringy let's hope we can unlock something kind of guy. At some point they'll have to get somebody with a longer track record of dependability, somebody you'd want to pencil into a playoff start.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 29, 2021 10:34:58 GMT -5
WHY? Gausman at 5/110 with no loss of a draft pick seems like a good fit to me. This kind of scares me that they’ll be dumpster diving this off season. The Richards experiment did not go well and I expect the Wacha deal to end similarly. Plus, the thing about Gausman is the dude is a horse. He’ll eat innings if that’s what Bloom cares about so much.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 10:52:58 GMT -5
I would presume that most of the free agent signings need to kind of happen today so physicals, etc. can happen prior to the Dec 2nd freeze.
I'm guessing the Sox are done between now and the freeze, save for perhaps some minor move.
We will have at least a couple of months as I expect the chasm between the players and owners to deepen and not be resolved anytime between Dec 2nd and Feb 15th and I wouldn't be surprised to see it linger into spring training and even the exhibition season (honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see the season interrupted either).
So I expect we'll be left with the scenario where the Sox are frozen with the subtraction of E-Rod, the addition of Wacha, a bullpen that still has a lot more questions than answers, and perhaps a 2b hole - although if the Sox were to make a move prior to Dec 2nd - I'd guess it would be signing Baez, if the Tigers don't.
That doesn't mean that Bloom won't make a flurry of moves once the new rules are in place and the Sox pick through the rest of what's available hoping that prices go down. I'm sure he will.
But for us fans (some of us who are impatient) it'll be tough seeing the roster remain unimproved for a long stretch of time.
I consider myself impatient at times even though I'm rational enough to know there's a lot more offseason to be had when/if the new CBA is ratified.
So rationally I know the Sox are nowhere near done, but emotionally it's going to be rough waiting a long time for there to be movement. I think the upcoming 2 months will be turbulent with all the acrimony between the owners and players and I'm sure Manfred won't help the situation.
So for the baseball junkie in me, it will be like a nuclear winter. No baseball news at all...except for the HOF voting next Sunday and then the writers' HOF vote in January (watch that wind up with nobody elected!).
A winter of no rumors, no acquisitions....thankfully the New England Patriots are looking very good all of the sudden. Not looking forward to the winter of nothing.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 10:55:24 GMT -5
WHY? Gausman at 5/110 with no loss of a draft pick seems like a good fit to me. This kind of scares me that they’ll be dumpster diving this off season. The Richards experiment did not go well and I expect the Wacha deal to end similarly. Plus, the thing about Gausman is the dude is a horse. He’ll eat innings if that’s what Bloom cares about so much. Maybe they gave Gausman the same offer they gave E-Rod
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Post by greenmonster on Nov 29, 2021 12:11:45 GMT -5
I would presume that most of the free agent signings need to kind of happen today so physicals, etc. can happen prior to the Dec 2nd freeze. I'm guessing the Sox are done between now and the freeze, save for perhaps some minor move. We will have at least a couple of months as I expect the chasm between the players and owners to deepen and not be resolved anytime between Dec 2nd and Feb 15th and I wouldn't be surprised to see it linger into spring training and even the exhibition season (honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see the season interrupted either). So I expect we'll be left with the scenario where the Sox are frozen with the subtraction of E-Rod, the addition of Wacha, a bullpen that still has a lot more questions than answers, and perhaps a 2b hole - although if the Sox were to make a move prior to Dec 2nd - I'd guess it would be signing Baez, if the Tigers don't. That doesn't mean that Bloom won't make a flurry of moves once the new rules are in place and the Sox pick through the rest of what's available hoping that prices go down. I'm sure he will. But for us fans (some of us who are impatient) it'll be tough seeing the roster remain unimproved for a long stretch of time. I consider myself impatient at times even though I'm rational enough to know there's a lot more offseason to be had when/if the new CBA is ratified. So rationally I know the Sox are nowhere near done, but emotionally it's going to be rough waiting a long time for there to be movement. I think the upcoming 2 months will be turbulent with all the acrimony between the owners and players and I'm sure Manfred won't help the situation. So for the baseball junkie in me, it will be like a nuclear winter. No baseball news at all...except for the HOF voting next Sunday and then the writers' HOF vote in January (watch that wind up with nobody elected!). A winter of no rumors, no acquisitions....thankfully the New England Patriots are looking very good all of the sudden. Not looking forward to the winter of nothing. We could always go buy tickets to give out as Christmas gifts ................ NOT
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Post by bosoxnation on Nov 29, 2021 12:24:10 GMT -5
We should offer Stroman 2 years 45 million…….Cmon Bloom it will complete the rotation!
Sale Eovaldi Stroman Pivetta Wacha
That means 1 more year of Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen which makes our bullpen that much better!!!!
That’s a beautiful thing.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 12:42:47 GMT -5
We should offer Stroman 2 years 45 million…….Cmon Bloom it will complete the rotation! Sale Eovaldi Stroman Pivetta Wacha That means 1 more year of Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen which makes our bullpen that much better!!!! That’s a beautiful thing. Do you really think Stroman would sign on the dotted line for 2 years 45 million? The guy can easily get a contract for about 4 or 5 years somewhere in the 80 - 100 million range. You act like the Red Sox are the only team that Stroman could possibly sign for, as if no other team can beat an offer like that. That's not realistic at all.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 29, 2021 12:49:58 GMT -5
We should offer Stroman 2 years 45 million…….Cmon Bloom it will complete the rotation! Sale Eovaldi Stroman Pivetta Wacha That means 1 more year of Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen which makes our bullpen that much better!!!! That’s a beautiful thing. I would expect stroman to get something comparable to Gausman so no I don't see him taking a 2 year deal.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 29, 2021 13:20:10 GMT -5
We should offer Stroman 2 years 45 million…….Cmon Bloom it will complete the rotation! Sale Eovaldi Stroman Pivetta Wacha That means 1 more year of Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen which makes our bullpen that much better!!!! That’s a beautiful thing. I would expect stroman to get something comparable to Gausman so no I don't see him taking a 2 year deal. I could see him taking something like what E-Rod got (which is basically a two-year deal if he performs well and a 5-year deal if he doesn't) but with half again as much money. In other words, 5/$100-ish with a player option for the last three years. With no player option, the AAV would go up.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 29, 2021 13:21:48 GMT -5
For all of you who have said Sherzer would be a good short term pickup, I think you are right of course. But the Mets are about to lose their minds. If it's at the $40m AAV that is being reported, you just tip your cap to the Mets and say "Good luck with that."
EDIT: Pretty remarkable rebound in the FA market compared with the last few years pre-Covid...
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Post by bosoxnation on Nov 29, 2021 14:00:12 GMT -5
Should you guys take Lester on a 1 year deal?
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 29, 2021 14:06:34 GMT -5
Should you guys take Lester on a 1 year deal? As much as I love Lester and wish they had kept him in Boston way back when, that ship has sailed and I don't see him being a fit.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 16:24:51 GMT -5
As has already been reported on another thread, Rob Bradford reports that the Sox are in the thick of the Rich Hill sweepstakes.
If the Sox are close, perhaps not the top bidder, but close, I think there's a good chance the Sox come away with Rich Hill who I think would really like to come back to pitch in Boston.
I'd be happy with Hill, but I still don't think that Hill plus Wacha is greater than E-Rod plus Richards plus Perez.
I hope the Sox do get Hill, but with his age and track record of injuries, he's somebody I like competing in the back end of the rotation, holding a spot if he's healthy and if he's not, that would open up a spot for Houck and/or Whitlock.
The thing is I still feel like, even with Hill if they get him and Wacha, they really haven't replaced E-Rod.
I'm high on Whitlock and think that he can become a solid starter and eventually replace E-Rod, but I don't like penciling that in and putting those kinds of expectations on him.
But my guess is that if the Sox do land Hill, they are done adding to the rotation even though I don't think they should be. If Kluber is getting 8 million and Haney is getting 8 million and Wacha is getting 7 million, Hill should easily get 10 - 12 million.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 29, 2021 16:26:51 GMT -5
Now that the unicorns are off the starting pitcher board, I'm looking at some of the down-market guys. My apologies to anyone who's been beating the Tyler Anderson drum but he didn't ring a bell for me at all. Looking through his game log from 2021, out of 31 starts, he had two 9-run games, a 6-run game, and two 4-ER games. Other than that, it was all 1, 2, or 3 runs given up (plus 7 shutout innings on July 4th). That's pretty solid. He threw more innings than E-Rod or Pivetta. He walked 3 guys in a game only twice (E-Rod had 8 such outings, Pivetta had 10). 134 K/38 BB in 167 IP is pretty good. Obviously he's not going to blow guys away but he's not going to shoot himself in the foot either. He did allow 27 balls to leave the yard but 7 of those were in a 15-inning span in May. He doesn't seem to be getting a lot of buzz (didn't make the top 50 MLBTR list) but looks like he could eat a plateful of innings every 5 days for a reasonable outlay. Maybe 1/$8m with a club option or 2/$14m with a club option? He sure looks at least as valuable as Wacha to me.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 29, 2021 16:35:46 GMT -5
WHY? Gausman at 5/110 with no loss of a draft pick seems like a good fit to me. This kind of scares me that they’ll be dumpster diving this off season. The Richards experiment did not go well and I expect the Wacha deal to end similarly. Plus, the thing about Gausman is the dude is a horse. He’ll eat innings if that’s what Bloom cares about so much. Completely agree.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Nov 29, 2021 16:48:50 GMT -5
As has already been reported on another thread, Rob Bradford reports that the Sox are in the thick of the Rich Hill sweepstakes. If the Sox are close, perhaps not the top bidder, but close, I think there's a good chance the Sox come away with Rich Hill who I think would really like to come back to pitch in Boston. I'd be happy with Hill, but I still don't think that Hill plus Wacha is greater than E-Rod plus Richards plus Perez. I hope the Sox do get Hill, but with his age and track record of injuries, he's somebody I like competing in the back end of the rotation, holding a spot if he's healthy and if he's not, that would open up a spot for Houck and/or Whitlock. The thing is I still feel like, even with Hill if they get him and Wacha, they really haven't replaced E-Rod. I'm high on Whitlock and think that he can become a solid starter and eventually replace E-Rod, but I don't like penciling that in and putting those kinds of expectations on him. But my guess is that if the Sox do land Hill, they are done adding to the rotation even though I don't think they should be. If Kluber is getting 8 million and Haney is getting 8 million and Wacha is getting 7 million, Hill should easily get 10 - 12 million. I disagree on some points. ERod is easily the best pitcher out of everyone. Detroit killed it on that contract. Depth is extremely important but so is having people who you can be confident in to give you 6 solid innings. I'm not confident in Hill or Wacha at all. Hill is 42 and while he's hanging on he could legitimately fall off any time. Wacha was not good last year. He was mediocre at best. If thats the best that the ownership group comes up with during the same offseason where they bought the Penguins people are not going to be happy.
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 29, 2021 16:57:21 GMT -5
Yeah, ERod looks like clearly the best big money deal so far,
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 16:59:21 GMT -5
As has already been reported on another thread, Rob Bradford reports that the Sox are in the thick of the Rich Hill sweepstakes. If the Sox are close, perhaps not the top bidder, but close, I think there's a good chance the Sox come away with Rich Hill who I think would really like to come back to pitch in Boston. I'd be happy with Hill, but I still don't think that Hill plus Wacha is greater than E-Rod plus Richards plus Perez. I hope the Sox do get Hill, but with his age and track record of injuries, he's somebody I like competing in the back end of the rotation, holding a spot if he's healthy and if he's not, that would open up a spot for Houck and/or Whitlock. The thing is I still feel like, even with Hill if they get him and Wacha, they really haven't replaced E-Rod. I'm high on Whitlock and think that he can become a solid starter and eventually replace E-Rod, but I don't like penciling that in and putting those kinds of expectations on him. But my guess is that if the Sox do land Hill, they are done adding to the rotation even though I don't think they should be. If Kluber is getting 8 million and Haney is getting 8 million and Wacha is getting 7 million, Hill should easily get 10 - 12 million. I disagree on some points. ERod is easily the best pitcher out of everyone. Detroit killed it on that contract. Depth is extremely important but so is having people who you can be confident in to give you 6 solid innings. I'm not confident in Hill or Wacha at all. Hill is 42 and while he's hanging on he could legitimately fall off any time. Wacha was not good last year. He was mediocre at best. If thats the best that the ownership group comes up with during the same offseason where they bought the Penguins people are not going to be happy. What exactly are we disagreeing on?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 17:01:42 GMT -5
Yeah, ERod looks like clearly the best big money deal so far, Did Bloom really think that 3 years 40 million was going to bring E-Rod? Or did he flat out not want him? Did he think it would be easy to replace a guy with a FIP of about 3.5 for the money he was paying E-Rod in 2021? I'm of the belief that Bloom badly misread the starting pitching market, but I guess we'll have to see on that one.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Nov 29, 2021 17:04:36 GMT -5
I disagree on some points. ERod is easily the best pitcher out of everyone. Detroit killed it on that contract. Depth is extremely important but so is having people who you can be confident in to give you 6 solid innings. I'm not confident in Hill or Wacha at all. Hill is 42 and while he's hanging on he could legitimately fall off any time. Wacha was not good last year. He was mediocre at best. If thats the best that the ownership group comes up with during the same offseason where they bought the Penguins people are not going to be happy. What exactly are we disagreeing on? More or less on Rich Hill holding up.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 17:09:41 GMT -5
What exactly are we disagreeing on? More or less on Rich Hill holding up. I don't think he holds up. Do you? I know he did last year, but I wouldn't bet on it at his, what, age 42 season? My guess is he spends some time on the DL, misses a portion of the season, but can come back into the rotation, or even be a legit option out of the pen. All I can think of is when the Sox were in the playoffs. Once Taylor was out of the game and they needed another lefty they were screwed. Darwinzon was incapable, Davis didn't inspire confidence, so in one of the biggest spots of the season they turned to Martin Perez and a 3-2 deficit ballooned into a 9-2 lost cause and the season went to hell after that inning. I don't like Hill as the #3 starter to replace E-Rod, but I like him as a #4/#5 guy to start. But I could be very unrealistic here - his $ probably winds up going a good deal higher than Wacha so that you probably do have to pencil him into the 3 spot, but I don't like the chances of him holding up all season long. If he's an expensive depth guy I like it. If he's E-Rod's replacement, then not so much.
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Post by foreverred9 on Nov 29, 2021 20:13:01 GMT -5
Yeah, ERod looks like clearly the best big money deal so far, Did Bloom really think that 3 years 40 million was going to bring E-Rod? Or did he flat out not want him? Did he think it would be easy to replace a guy with a FIP of about 3.5 for the money he was paying E-Rod in 2021? I'm of the belief that Bloom badly misread the starting pitching market, but I guess we'll have to see on that one. I forget where the 3 years, 40 million came from, but one thing we need to be careful of is distinguishing between the intial offer and the final offer. I don't think the Sox ever got to offer a final offer, so if that 3/40 feels like a low-ball offer, it probably is. I'm starting to come to the opinion that ERod didn't give us (or the league) a chance to negotiate. He found a team that really wanted him and he signed within days of that meeting in Miami. Maybe ERod is now thinking "darn, I wish I stayed in this market longer". Who knows though, it's pure conjecture from here on out.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Nov 29, 2021 20:15:30 GMT -5
Yeah, ERod looks like clearly the best big money deal so far, Did Bloom really think that 3 years 40 million was going to bring E-Rod? Or did he flat out not want him? Did he think it would be easy to replace a guy with a FIP of about 3.5 for the money he was paying E-Rod in 2021? I'm of the belief that Bloom badly misread the starting pitching market, but I guess we'll have to see on that one. Cite your sources on that number
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 29, 2021 20:20:40 GMT -5
Did Bloom really think that 3 years 40 million was going to bring E-Rod? Or did he flat out not want him? Did he think it would be easy to replace a guy with a FIP of about 3.5 for the money he was paying E-Rod in 2021? I'm of the belief that Bloom badly misread the starting pitching market, but I guess we'll have to see on that one. I forget where the 3 years, 40 million came from, but one thing we need to be careful of is distinguishing between the intial offer and the final offer. I don't think the Sox ever got to offer a final offer, so if that 3/40 feels like a low-ball offer, it probably is. I'm starting to come to the opinion that ERod didn't give us (or the league) a chance to negotiate. He found a team that really wanted him and he signed within days of that meeting in Miami. Maybe ERod is now thinking "darn, I wish I stayed in this market longer". Who knows though, it's pure conjecture from here on out. It's not a real offer. I threw out those figures as an offer the Sox might have thrown out. It could be higher than what they actually offered or lower although I think we can safely assume that the Sox offer was nowhere near 5 years 77 million given the way E-Rod jumped on it. The fact that he jumped so quickly tells me he felt very disappointed that in all that time the Sox never made a serious offer and he got the distinct impression the Sox really didn't value him. It looks like E-Rod and the Sox both underestimated his market. I think the Sox will regret it more as at least E-Rod can opt out in 2 years and potentially get back into the market and maybe make a better score.
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 29, 2021 20:21:03 GMT -5
My guess is the Red Sox were shotgun blasting team friendly offers to the FA market while ERod was shopping his 5/77 demand that in retrospect was pretty light. It sounds like Detroit jumped on the deal and ERod didn't bother to see if anyone else would top it with a gun to their head.
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