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6/25-6/27 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series Thread
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Post by soxfaninnj on Jun 25, 2021 21:56:08 GMT -5
To win a game on a walk, a wild pitch that should have been blocked than an error and a weak fly ball to win the game kinda makes up for yesterday’s brutal loss
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Post by kevfc89 on Jun 25, 2021 21:57:13 GMT -5
No matter what happens tonight. This is easily the best bullpen ive seen the red sox have. six guys looking pretty locked in and dominant lately in darwinzon, whitlock, ottavino, sawamura, taylor, and barnes.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jun 25, 2021 21:58:35 GMT -5
To win a game on a walk, a wild pitch that should have been blocked than an error and a weak fly ball to win the game kinda makes up for yesterday’s brutal loss This team just knows how to optimize value. They know they have to lose some games, so they just make sure it happens against the Rays and Astros so that they can stick it to the Yankees.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 25, 2021 21:59:25 GMT -5
Great Win!
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Post by Guidas on Jun 25, 2021 22:02:50 GMT -5
No matter what happens tonight. This is easily the best bullpen ive seen the red sox have. The ghost of Julián Taváres will now haunt you.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 25, 2021 22:06:24 GMT -5
Didn't see the ending. I couldn't deal with the stress when the the first two hitters got on on, so I went for a walk. Now blood is again flowing to all parts of my body and my heart rate has slowed back to normal.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 25, 2021 22:09:30 GMT -5
I can't imagine a value-conscious exec like CB is going to pay huge $$$ and years to keep that left side of the IF together. Not game related, but if they don’t keep Devers and/or X, the Pedey ceremony is going to be the last one for a looong time. They’ll be a team of mercenaries for the foreseeable future. Devers at DH and X at 3B...
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Post by foreverred9 on Jun 25, 2021 22:09:39 GMT -5
Is Barnes’ curve a victim of the sticky police? His spin rates were better last night, and tonight looks closer to last night than the previous two games, but he's definitely been a different pitcher the past two weeks. Numbers tailed down a bit over the rest of the inning, he landed in between last night and the previous two games. Here are his last 10 games, including tonight. May 29th, June 4th, 5th, 6th, 10th, 14th, 15th, 22nd, 24th, 25th: Fastball
2361 2390 2457 2327 2409 2383 2142 2232 2390 2305 Curve
2225 2231 2261 2279 2258 2276 2051 2084 2171 2112
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 25, 2021 22:13:36 GMT -5
Great win indeed - tuned in half way through, listened on my laptop as I worked through email...got to keep winning - and would love our offense to have a nice breakout game throughout the line up. So odd to be carried by our pitching!
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Post by manfred on Jun 25, 2021 22:14:00 GMT -5
Whitlock with another win against the Yankees.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 25, 2021 22:19:23 GMT -5
Not game related, but if they don’t keep Devers and/or X, the Pedey ceremony is going to be the last one for a looong time. They’ll be a team of mercenaries for the foreseeable future. Devers at DH and X at 3B... I don't think those deals are there to be made though. X isn't worth as much as a 3B and Devers isn't worth as much as a DH. If the RS see them that way, it's going to affect the offers they make. And if X and Devers are looking to max out, they're not going to accept those offers. My guess is that they sign one of the two, at most. And if they're both looking to max out, I hope they don't sign either. We see time after time how those contracts end up. Miggy. Pujols. Ellsbury. Panda (and his contract wasn't even that long). Price. Crawford. Beckett. Heyward. Chris Davis. Stanton. And that's just off the top of my feeble head. Make deals that make BB and economic sense. Be cold and bloodless.
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Post by manfred on Jun 25, 2021 22:23:22 GMT -5
Devers at DH and X at 3B... I don't think those deals are there to be made though. X isn't worth as much as a 3B and Devers isn't worth as much as a DH. If the RS see them that way, it's going to affect the offers they make. And if X and Devers are looking to max out, they're not going to accept those offers. My guess is that they sign one of the two, at most. And if they're both looking to max out, I hope they don't sign either. We see time after time how those contracts end up. Miggy. Pujols. Ellsbury. Panda (and his contract wasn't even that long). Price. Crawford. Beckett. Heyward. Chris Davis. Stanton. And that's just off the top of my feeble head. Make deals that make BB and economic sense. Be cold and bloodless. I’m not sure bloodless is the way to maintain fans. The more bloodless baseball (and sports) have gotten, the fewer people have watched.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 25, 2021 22:34:02 GMT -5
I don't think those deals are there to be made though. X isn't worth as much as a 3B and Devers isn't worth as much as a DH. If the RS see them that way, it's going to affect the offers they make. And if X and Devers are looking to max out, they're not going to accept those offers. My guess is that they sign one of the two, at most. And if they're both looking to max out, I hope they don't sign either. We see time after time how those contracts end up. Miggy. Pujols. Ellsbury. Panda (and his contract wasn't even that long). Price. Crawford. Beckett. Heyward. Chris Davis. Stanton. And that's just off the top of my feeble head. Make deals that make BB and economic sense. Be cold and bloodless. I’m not sure bloodless is the way to maintain fans. The more bloodless baseball (and sports) have gotten, the fewer people have watched. It's actually quite the opposite. BB revenues and salaries have zoomed upward big-time compared to the rest of the economy since free agency began in 1976. I used to be a lot more sentimental about this stuff. I hated that they let Mo Vaughn go. I almost threw up (no exaggeration) the day I hit refresh on espn.com/mlb to check for FA news and saw a photo-shopped picture of Pedro smiling in a Mets cap. I died inside the day Nomar got traded. I have since accepted the reality that winning requires cold and bloodless. I mean, do you wish they had matched the four-year, $52M the Mets gave Pedro? That would have meant $13 million less to build out the rest of the 2007 WC roster. Do you wish they had matched the MFY offer for Ellsbury? That would have meant $22 million less to build the rest of the 2018 WC team.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 25, 2021 22:34:14 GMT -5
I don't think those deals are there to be made though. X isn't worth as much as a 3B and Devers isn't worth as much as a DH. If the RS see them that way, it's going to affect the offers they make. And if X and Devers are looking to max out, they're not going to accept those offers. My guess is that they sign one of the two, at most. And if they're both looking to max out, I hope they don't sign either. We see time after time how those contracts end up. Miggy. Pujols. Ellsbury. Panda (and his contract wasn't even that long). Price. Crawford. Beckett. Heyward. Chris Davis. Stanton. And that's just off the top of my feeble head. Make deals that make BB and economic sense. Be cold and bloodless. I’m not sure bloodless is the way to maintain fans. The more bloodless baseball (and sports) have gotten, the fewer people have watched. People will watch if the team wins. If X and devers are on a bad team like in 2020 fans will tune out. Winning brings out the fans ultimately.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 25, 2021 22:38:14 GMT -5
I’m not sure bloodless is the way to maintain fans. The more bloodless baseball (and sports) have gotten, the fewer people have watched. People will watch if the team wins. If X and devers are on a bad team like in 2020 fans will tune out. Winning brings out the fans ultimately. The best evidence of this is the makeup of the most beloved team in RS history (honorable mention to the '67 team). The '04 Idiots had one truly homegrown starting position player. That was Trot Nixon. None of their SPs were drafted and developed by them. The closer and top two RPs were from other organizations. Yet that parade ranks as one of the best and most emotional days of my life.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 25, 2021 22:39:46 GMT -5
People will watch if the team wins. If X and devers are on a bad team like in 2020 fans will tune out. Winning brings out the fans ultimately. The best evidence of this is the makeup of the most beloved team in RS history (honorable mention to the '67 team). The '04 Idiots had one truly homegrown starting position player. That was Trot Nixon. None of their SPs were drafted and developed by them. The closer and top two RPs were from other organizations. Yet that parade ranks as one of the best and most emotional days of my life. And they traded Nomar away, a franchise icon.
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Post by manfred on Jun 25, 2021 22:39:57 GMT -5
People will watch if the team wins. If X and devers are on a bad team like in 2020 fans will tune out. Winning brings out the fans ultimately. The best evidence of this is the makeup of the most beloved team in RS history (honorable mention to the '67 team). The '04 Idiots had one truly homegrown starting position player. That was Trot Nixon. None of their SPs were drafted and developed by them. The closer and top two RPs were from other organizations. Yet that parade ranks as one of the best and most emotional days of my life. But is the game growing or shrinking?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 25, 2021 22:41:30 GMT -5
The best evidence of this is the makeup of the most beloved team in RS history (honorable mention to the '67 team). The '04 Idiots had one truly homegrown starting position player. That was Trot Nixon. None of their SPs were drafted and developed by them. The closer and top two RPs were from other organizations. Yet that parade ranks as one of the best and most emotional days of my life. But is the game growing or shrinking? It is shrinking for many reasons and not signing a guy like X won't be the reason it shrinks.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 25, 2021 22:47:44 GMT -5
But is the game growing or shrinking? It is shrinking for many reasons and not signing a guy like X won't be the reason it shrinks. Again, it's grown like crazy since FA began and players started moving around to get paid. Ditto for the NFL and NBA. Revenues shriveled last year due to the pandemic. And you can't ignore problems like pace of game, time of game, ubiquity of K's, etc. as drags on interest in BB. These are problems that have gotten worse the last 20 years or so and reached the point where the game is unwatchable for a lot of people.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jun 25, 2021 22:53:59 GMT -5
You mention the Sox would be bringing in mercenaries if they let Devers and X go, but it goes both ways. Them leaving for top dollar would also make them mercenaries. Unfortunately that's the age we're in.
If you're going to overspend for free agents, give it to the homegrown players but don't sign them too far into their 30s. Buy out the end of arbitration, grab their 27-33 years.
Based on that, I'm more inclined to let X walk and sign Devers.
This might be a crazy idea, and I said it a month ago as well, but I think they lost out the day they signed him to a team friendly deal a few years ago. That essentially forced a renegotiation at age 30, and I'm not sure there's many (if any) good long-term contracts where the first year was 30+. If they spent more back then, I think they would have had him until 33 whereas now we might lose him at 30.
TL;DR - don't be cheap, overpay for the 27-33 years when they are still value-add, you made millions off their early years (and maybe they'll give you a team friendly deal for the final years)
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 25, 2021 23:07:31 GMT -5
You mention the Sox would be bringing in mercenaries if they let Devers and X go, but it goes both ways. Them leaving for top dollar would also make them mercenaries. Unfortunately that's the age we're in. If you're going to overspend for free agents, give it to the homegrown players but don't sign them too far into their 30s. Buy out the end of arbitration, grab their 27-33 years.Based on that, I'm more inclined to let X walk and sign Devers. This might be a crazy idea, and I said it a month ago as well, but I think they lost out the day they signed him to a team friendly deal a few years ago. That essentially forced a renegotiation at age 30, and I'm not sure there's many (if any) good long-term contracts where the first year was 30+. If they spent more back then, I think they would have had him until 33 whereas now we might lose him at 30. TL;DR - don't be cheap, overpay for the 27-33 years when they are still value-add, you made millions off their early years (and maybe they'll give you a team friendly deal for the final years) YES, a million times over to this. If X wants Lindor money and years, then see 'ya. And I'd trade him this off-season for a decent return, not let him walk for a draft pick after the 2022 season. The RS had a lot of success with this approach with prior generations of players. The contract DD gave Nomar after his rookie year was great. Lester, Youks and Pedroia (go F yourself, Machado) left potential payout on the table in return for lifetime security pre-FA. There have been others too. Unfortunately and for various reasons, they have not had as much success in taking this approach with the great group of players who came up between 2013 and 2016.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 26, 2021 0:11:17 GMT -5
The best evidence of this is the makeup of the most beloved team in RS history (honorable mention to the '67 team). The '04 Idiots had one truly homegrown starting position player. That was Trot Nixon. None of their SPs were drafted and developed by them. The closer and top two RPs were from other organizations. Yet that parade ranks as one of the best and most emotional days of my life. And they traded Nomar away, a franchise icon. The Red Sox traded him at the right time!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 26, 2021 0:12:08 GMT -5
It's a great win - especially any time you beat the Yankees. If given a choice between blowing the last game against TB and this one against NY, I'd rather it turned out the way it did, as I really, really hate losing to the Yankees.
The defense was better, but still problematic. Perez has had his 3rd bad game out of 4 although better defense would have helped him.
That said, it's really hard to keep winning games where your bullpen has to be virtually perfect. Fortunately they were up to the task but it is difficult seeing them pitch so many innings and under a lot of pressure. Hard to keep that up. They need to get more consistent stronger starting pitching performances and a steadier offense would help.
I will say, I really love the fact the Whitlock notched his second win against the Yankees. And it was a bonus that Ottavino mowed the Yankees down. I do have to say - sometimes Ottavino makes me nervous, but he HAS been damn good. He's hard to square up.
And I hope every time Whitlock and Ottavino (particularly Whitlock as he's a long-term piece and a future starter) succeed, especially against NY, that it pisses of their FO and their fanbase.
The Rays benefitted from the Sox passing up Rich Hill and choosing Richards. That played out directly this week in Tampa's favor as it was a mistake by Boston that TB capitalized on. Likewise, similar situation with the Sox taking advantage of NY with their not protecting Whitlock and dealing away Ottavino with Frank German for nothing just so they could sign insignificant players for their roster as it turned out (I do like O'Day but he's been injured). I really enjoy seeing NY being beaten that way.
Now hopefully the Sox can beat NY in Game 2 because the matchup certainly isn't in Boston's favor for Game 3.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 26, 2021 0:13:00 GMT -5
This team just knows how to optimize value. *except when it comes to marwin gonzález, danny santana and kiké hernández*
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 26, 2021 0:25:58 GMT -5
Surprised no one mentioned the outstanding play of Devers at third base. Given the complaints about his defense he really countered that in this game.
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