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8/3-8/5 Red Sox @ Tigers Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 3, 2021 21:38:22 GMT -5
Lame ass performance.
The starting pitching had been mediocre to crappy for most of the season, but at least the offense could dig out. Now the whole damn lineup is in a slump. Can't win with crapoy starting pitching and a struggling offense. Hope Detroit doesnt sweep them too.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 3, 2021 21:39:39 GMT -5
Second half record - 8 wins, 9 losses, including 3-7 for our last 10. We've scored 31 runs, given up 53. And let's be honest. The Red Sox could have very easily lost all 4 to NY. This team needed help and got a guy 2 weeks away. This team looks and feels defeated. They beat Cole 6 to 2, so that win wasn't subject to a play that could have gone either way.
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Post by tizzle on Aug 3, 2021 21:43:17 GMT -5
Well, John Henry doesn't have to pay the luxury tax, and that's what's really important. I'll sleep better tonight remembering that.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2021 21:46:22 GMT -5
Offense has been bad, Schwarber can’t come soon enough
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 3, 2021 21:46:37 GMT -5
Well, John Henry doesn't have to pay the luxury tax, and that's what's really important. I'll sleep better tonight remembering that. There is no trade they could have made at the deadline that would have fixed this team. Our rotation outside of Nate is a tire fire. And our entire lineup can’t hit for **** So unless bloom traded for an entirely new rotation and lineup this is what they are. And have been like this for more than a month.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 3, 2021 21:48:37 GMT -5
I'm just glad that Red Sox are looking out for our interest in prospects by helping us get a better draft pick next season.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 3, 2021 21:48:49 GMT -5
Just think how good they are going to be in 2023 !!!!!!
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 3, 2021 21:49:31 GMT -5
And let's be honest. The Red Sox could have very easily lost all 4 to NY. This team needed help and got a guy 2 weeks away. This team looks and feels defeated. They beat Cole 6 to 2, so that win wasn't subject to a play that could have gone either way. Fair enough. They lost their starter to migraines at the very beginning of the game and got a brilliant performance from Valdez. So, if you want to chalk that o to a solid win, that's fair. I doubt you win that game more often than not, but the strength of the Sox is the bullpen.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 3, 2021 21:54:54 GMT -5
I get a kick out of Wake saying you just have to tip your hat to the pitcher. Well...You would be tipping your hat to every pitcher that is thrown out there then.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 3, 2021 21:55:12 GMT -5
Well, John Henry doesn't have to pay the luxury tax, and that's what's really important. I'll sleep better tonight remembering that. There is no trade they could have made at the deadline that would have fixed this team. Our rotation outside of Nate is a tire fire. And our entire lineup can’t hit for **** So unless bloom traded for an entirely new rotation and lineup this is what they are. And have been like this for more than a month. Phillies got 2 starters for a reasonable price. Keeping Rizzo off the Yankees potentially takes 1-2 wins off their record. I personally was in favor of buying a prospect for Hosmer and flipping said prospect. Idk, anything would be better than nothing. They literally lost a game because of Arauz. Maybe an extra bat wins that game. Everyone wants to tell me that E-Rod is just super unlucky, so fine. Plan for E-Rod to be better, plan on Sale coming back, and then fill out the rotation with Houck, Pivetta and whatever starter you bring in. If this team was losing despite upgrading, fine, but they did nothing (outside of Schwarber) and have lost every single game since the deadline. The team looks completely demoralized. They haven't lost 4 games in a row all year. They're up to 5 now.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 3, 2021 21:55:43 GMT -5
The problem that is looming - the starters have been crap, the pen has been good, so we aren't giving up all that many runs (just a few stinkers in there) - but eventually the pen arms will burn out. But we are not winning the low scoring games because our whole line up has decided to go into a deep slump. Once they break out of it, it may not be enough because by then we may be giving up tons of runs.
So - a real conundrum. Mostly Cora and the hitting coach(es) have to figure out where the heads of our hitters are - because they are not where they need to be.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 3, 2021 21:59:02 GMT -5
There is no trade they could have made at the deadline that would have fixed this team. Our rotation outside of Nate is a tire fire. And our entire lineup can’t hit for **** So unless bloom traded for an entirely new rotation and lineup this is what they are. And have been like this for more than a month. Phillies got 2 starters for a reasonable price. Keeping Rizzo off the Yankees potentially takes 1-2 wins off their record. I personally was in favor of buying a prospect for Hosmer and flipping said prospect. Idk, anything would be better than nothing. They literally lost a game because of Arauz. Maybe an extra bat wins that game. Everyone wants to tell me that E-Rod is just super unlucky, so fine. Plan for E-Rod to be better, plan on Sale coming back, and then fill out the rotation with Houck, Pivetta and whatever starter you bring in. If this team was losing despite upgrading, fine, but they did nothing (outside of Schwarber) and have lost every single game since the deadline. The team looks completely demoralized. They haven't lost 4 games in a row all year. They're up to 5 now. Take a look at their record for all of last month. This is their actual talent level. It would have been pointless to spend capital to only fix some of the issues on the Sox when we would have had to retool our entire lineup as well. Outside of Devers nobody can hit to save their life. And to actually fix those issues would cost more than the Sox even have in the minors.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 3, 2021 22:05:04 GMT -5
The problem that is looming - the starters have been crap, the pen has been good, so we aren't giving up all that many runs (just a few stinkers in there) - but eventually the pen arms will burn out. But we are not winning the low scoring games because our whole line up has decided to go into a deep slump. Once they break out of it, it may not be enough because by then we may be giving up tons of runs. So - a real conundrum. Mostly Cora and the hitting coach(es) have to figure out where the heads of our hitters are - because they are not where they need to be. Cora talks about controlling the strike zone, and talks about them chasing too much. We're in an era where pitchers don't pitch, they throw. Lots of strike outs and a lot of walks allowed. The Sox strike out but they don't walk much. They have to hit their way on. And to score when not hitting HRs, they have to string 2 or 3 hits together. If they walked more, maybe it would only require 1 or 2 hits. Obviously that's not the whole reason but it's part of it and pitching staffs are exploiting the Sox tendency to chase out of the strike zone.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 3, 2021 22:09:04 GMT -5
Phillies got 2 starters for a reasonable price. Keeping Rizzo off the Yankees potentially takes 1-2 wins off their record. I personally was in favor of buying a prospect for Hosmer and flipping said prospect. Idk, anything would be better than nothing. They literally lost a game because of Arauz. Maybe an extra bat wins that game. Everyone wants to tell me that E-Rod is just super unlucky, so fine. Plan for E-Rod to be better, plan on Sale coming back, and then fill out the rotation with Houck, Pivetta and whatever starter you bring in. If this team was losing despite upgrading, fine, but they did nothing (outside of Schwarber) and have lost every single game since the deadline. The team looks completely demoralized. They haven't lost 4 games in a row all year. They're up to 5 now. Take a look at their record for all of last month. This is their actual talent level. It would have been pointless to spend capital to only fix some of the issues on the Sox when we would have had to retool our entire lineup as well. Outside of Devers nobody can hit to save their life. And to actually fix those issues would cost more than the Sox even have in the minors. I don't think this team is that bad or that far off. They just needed a starter and a 1B. Schwarber was a unique pickup, but I don't like it as the 1B replacement. Winning an extra game or 2 would be huge right now.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 3, 2021 22:13:33 GMT -5
This is why the Sox didn't really go all in at the deadline. They are not that good, too many holes and they couldn't fill all of them. We all know the rotation has been smoke and mirrors all season.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 3, 2021 22:25:20 GMT -5
Take a look at their record for all of last month. This is their actual talent level. It would have been pointless to spend capital to only fix some of the issues on the Sox when we would have had to retool our entire lineup as well. Outside of Devers nobody can hit to save their life. And to actually fix those issues would cost more than the Sox even have in the minors. I don't think this team is that bad or that far off. They just needed a starter and a 1B. Schwarber was a unique pickup, but I don't like it as the 1B replacement. Winning an extra game or 2 would be huge right now. Take a look at their record for all of last month. This is their actual talent level. It would have been pointless to spend capital to only fix some of the issues on the Sox when we would have had to retool our entire lineup as well. Outside of Devers nobody can hit to save their life. And to actually fix those issues would cost more than the Sox even have in the minors. I don't think this team is that bad or that far off. They just needed a starter and a 1B. Schwarber was a unique pickup, but I don't like it as the 1B replacement. Winning an extra game or 2 would be huge right now. They needed more than a 1B
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2021 22:29:41 GMT -5
Dang it, I was determined to write a despondent post, then I read through the thread and as usual all the despondency makes me want to point to the bright side, seek some sort of cosmic balance for the despair. (There are 2 or 3 of you that I truly, legitimately do not understand why you even watch the games.)
Soooo...
1) Rays lost. Sox only 1 game back. 2) A big part of the slump is that they're still on a bit of a bad luck streak. Granted, the Tigers' bullpen legitimately shut them down and the offense looked terrible for the last 5 innings, but Verdugo smoked that one GIDP ball; that ball finds a hole and it's a big inning in the making. That stuff just hasn't been happening for them for the past five days. 3) Let's remember, this is still just a 4-game skid, really. Splitting with Toronto was fine. Winning 3 of 4 against NY before that was great. NY, Toronto, and Tampa have all had multiple deeper and longer funks than this.
4) The Rays got their shot in the arm a couple weeks ago. The Jays and Yankees got their shots in the arm a few days ago. We're going to get our two shots in the arm in about a week and it's going to totally change the complexion and mood of the team. Just gotta hang in there til then. 5) Duran did some good stuff in this game! 6) Hansel looks... good? Did they One Weird Trick another solid reliever somehow? Pretty sweet if they did... 7) The fangraphs odds still have us as the favorite to win the division, and most likely in the division to make the playoffs. The Red Sox are the envy of the AL East!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2021 22:38:31 GMT -5
There was a 2 batter span where Yacksel Rios looked like the best pitcher of all time. We will always have that
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2021 22:52:03 GMT -5
The thing that frustrates me about Richards is that the Sox so obviously want to stay under the tax line but spent almost $10 mill on him. If they were over and money didn’t matter, fine. But on a tight budget… frustrating. The whole free agent starting pitching class from last off-season is kind of a dumpster fire. There are two main exceptions to this: 1) Guys who had specific teams/regions they wanted to stay in and so wouldn't have signed here (Wainwright, Morton); 2) Guys who signed with the Giants (DeSclafani, Wood).
Beyond that the pickings get slim real quickly. It's basically Taijuan Walker and... crickets. (Kluber and Bauer were good until... stuff happened.)
I liked what Bloom tried with Richards. I like that it's only a club option for next season so it's not an albatross for the team. It hasn't worked out, and this is not an apologia for Bloom - the Giants seemed to figure out the trick! (Or, at least as likely, they got lucky.) But one lesson here appears to be that it's really hard to make free agent pitchers work out. Guess we'll just have to make do with the old-fashioned way: picking the Yankees' pocket in the Rule 5 draft.
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Post by manfred on Aug 3, 2021 22:56:20 GMT -5
The thing that frustrates me about Richards is that the Sox so obviously want to stay under the tax line but spent almost $10 mill on him. If they were over and money didn’t matter, fine. But on a tight budget… frustrating. The whole free agent starting pitching class from last off-season is kind of a dumpster fire. There are two main exceptions to this: 1) Guys who had specific teams/regions they wanted to stay in and so wouldn't have signed here (Wainwright, Morton); 2) Guys who signed with the Giants (DeSclafani, Wood).
Beyond that the pickings get slim real quickly. It's basically Taijuan Walker and... crickets. (Kluber and Bauer were good until... stuff happened.)
I liked what Bloom tried with Richards. I like that it's only a club option for next season so it's not an albatross for the team. It hasn't worked out, and this is not an apologia for Bloom - the Giants seemed to figure out the trick! (Or, at least as likely, they got lucky.) But one lesson here appears to be that it's really hard to make free agent pitchers work out. Guess we'll just have to make do with the old-fashioned way: picking the Yankees' pocket in the Rule 5 draft.
I hear that. But even going back to signing him, I was against it and would have preferred spending elsewhere. But… I get it, and it was understandable. I just think it is frustrating not to have that space in the payroll.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2021 23:04:33 GMT -5
The whole free agent starting pitching class from last off-season is kind of a dumpster fire. There are two main exceptions to this: 1) Guys who had specific teams/regions they wanted to stay in and so wouldn't have signed here (Wainwright, Morton); 2) Guys who signed with the Giants (DeSclafani, Wood).
Beyond that the pickings get slim real quickly. It's basically Taijuan Walker and... crickets. (Kluber and Bauer were good until... stuff happened.)
I liked what Bloom tried with Richards. I like that it's only a club option for next season so it's not an albatross for the team. It hasn't worked out, and this is not an apologia for Bloom - the Giants seemed to figure out the trick! (Or, at least as likely, they got lucky.) But one lesson here appears to be that it's really hard to make free agent pitchers work out. Guess we'll just have to make do with the old-fashioned way: picking the Yankees' pocket in the Rule 5 draft.
I hear that. But even going back to signing him, I was against it and would have preferred spending elsewhere. But… I get it, and it was understandable. I just think it is frustrating not to have that space in the payroll. And I hear that. It's a fair perspective. But they were going to have to sign somebody for that role. (I mean, they could have gone into the season with it delegated to Houck/Seabold, but you can see how that would've gone.) With hindsight, of course it'd be nice if they had gone with one of the 3 guys who have actually done well. But, like, Alex Wood (signed for 1/$3 million!) had pitched 48 innings and started 9 games in the previous two seasons with a 6 ERA. If you had him pegged as the big winner in the free agency sweepstakes you're a lot smarter than 29 GMs!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 3, 2021 23:10:52 GMT -5
When there is joy about Marwin Gonzalez ( and his .202 BA) coming off the IL and ending up in the lineup (not necessarily joy here, but clearly someone on the Sox mgt love the guy), there is a clear roster problem. Not enough bats to cover for the big guys slumping (and slumping all at once).
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Post by unitspin on Aug 4, 2021 4:32:00 GMT -5
We're just lucky Tampa is fumbling the ball bcs they could easily be up 3-4 games in the division right now.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 4, 2021 6:22:13 GMT -5
So a Boston #1? I'll take Mize over anyone not named Sale in this rotation. Even Nasty Nate. The lack of movement at the deadline destroyed the vibes on this team. Acquiring a slugger with a 900+ OPS = doing nothing. Does everyone realize the Yankees have won 27 Championships? A slugger who is not healthy. I think people are really throwing away the whole hamstring injury as a big nothing burger. Look at Bellinger this year he's had chronic hamstring issues since the original injury popped up. Theres a chance he comes in is fine and hits 20 homers. There's also a chance he has 3 at bats and strains his hammy again playing a position that he's never played before. You're asking a lot to go right. Starting pitching outside of Sale and Nate is still junk. I get it. Sale is going to pitch like prime Sale and bring the Sox to the title and everything will be okay. But forgive me if I'm very skeptical of resting the hopes of this team on two injured players while this same team just got outplayed this weekend vs Tampa.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 4, 2021 6:34:56 GMT -5
Acquiring a slugger with a 900+ OPS = doing nothing. Does everyone realize the Yankees have won 27 Championships? I think he’s trolling me at this point lol MY PHONE IS ALREADY IN THE OCEAN WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM ME? ? Where does Schwarber play? The team is asking a guy coming off a high grade hamstring injury to learn a brand new position. A position where he is going to have to be mobile and get to the occasional bad throw. Again saying that Mize is better than anyone outside of Sale on this staff is a legitimate thought. K rate might not be there but can anyone say with a straight face they'd take E-Rod over Mize at this point? The Sox didn't fix any issues at the deadline and you saw what happened vs Tampa. Nothing is fixed unless Sale comes back without any issues and gets back to being a top 3 pitcher in the league immediately. He's coming back from Tommy John not a sprained ankle. There's no way he's back to normal until next year.
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