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8/10-8/12 Red Sox vs. Rays Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 12, 2021 18:51:14 GMT -5
This team became the worst team in baseball in the blink of an eye. What a shame.
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Post by manfred on Aug 12, 2021 18:55:39 GMT -5
Who is that? That needs an extended look? Duran? I’ve seen enough for a while. Downs? Maybe more time for Franchy? i think my point is why keep putting Marwin out there ? I feel bad piling on the guy, but he is awful and has no future with the club. Give the at bats to anyone....and I mean anyone else. They can't be any worse. It seems silly to give him at bats. Add....and if your giving up on Duran, I mean, he is the one guy you have to have some degree of patience with, no ? I’m not at all giving up on him long term. I do not think he is ready. He looked awful today, and he gas shown a serious weakness for chasing up in general. Add: I am also worried that Woo-stats might be misleading.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 12, 2021 18:59:11 GMT -5
Can everyone just relax now? The goal from here on in is to lose every game. Well except for when they play the Yankees. Suggestions: Shut down anyone who isn't 100%. Verdugo, Barnes, Sale, Bogaerts, Arroyo. Play Dalbec, Duran and Cordero every day. Give one of the bat only minor league guys a shot at DH. Most of those guys are oldish. Time to see if they can hit in MLB. Don't waste even one at bat on Schwarber. He's irrelevant the rest of the year and a free agent this off season. Get Seabold up if he's fully healthy. Yeah, guys - let’s LOSE!!
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Post by station13 on Aug 12, 2021 19:02:33 GMT -5
You cannot play Dalbec, Franchy, Gonzalez, and Vazquez everyday and win regularly.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 12, 2021 19:04:06 GMT -5
Sigh.
Well among other things, I think today is the day I finally gave up on Franchy.
Sale and Schwarber both back within the next few days, so the good news is that this team is already substantially improved - and while it is a bafflingly common notion here that they punted on the season by only addind one all-star at the trade deadline, I still think Houck + Sale + Schwarber = a bigger upgrade than any other team in the division. (To be fair, this could be balanced against Duran being yet another black hole added to the lineup... at least for now.)
The bad news is that they've squandered pretty much the entire lead over the Blue Jays and the Yankees. I don't guess I had to tell anyone that.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 12, 2021 19:07:53 GMT -5
i think my point is why keep putting Marwin out there ? I feel bad piling on the guy, but he is awful and has no future with the club. Give the at bats to anyone....and I mean anyone else. They can't be any worse. It seems silly to give him at bats. Add....and if your giving up on Duran, I mean, he is the one guy you have to have some degree of patience with, no ? I’m not at all giving up on him long term. I do not think he is ready. He looked awful today, and he gas shown a serious weakness for chasing up in general. Add: I am also worried that Woo-stats might be misleading. That may be, but I feel there is a rationale for letting him play because he is part of their future plans. Plus Verdugo isn't even with the squad. Marwin is a totally different story. Dalbec can go 0-3 with 2k's in his sleep. i would rather see him get every at bat, as opposed to Gonzalez. I don't think any splits are an advantage to winning at this point.
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Post by trajanacc on Aug 12, 2021 19:22:57 GMT -5
Can everyone just relax now? The goal from here on in is to lose every game. Well except for when they play the Yankees. Suggestions: Shut down anyone who isn't 100%. Verdugo, Barnes, Sale, Bogaerts, Arroyo. Play Dalbec, Duran and Cordero every day. Give one of the bat only minor league guys a shot at DH. Most of those guys are oldish. Time to see if they can hit in MLB. Don't waste even one at bat on Schwarber. He's irrelevant the rest of the year and a free agent this off season. Get Seabold up if he's fully healthy. Some of the these reactions are incredible. I get that the current slump is upsetting, but do you actually think this is reasonable? Imagine if a team leading the wild card completely threw in the towel, what do you think the reaction would be, both around Boston and nationally?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 12, 2021 19:26:57 GMT -5
didnt even know it was an early game. Not sure what to say. Stay the course, but in a span of 3 weeks we look like the worst team in the league. If Marwin isnt DFA'd in the next week, what the heck is the point ? I mean are you trying to win ? If not, give the playing time to someone who needs an extended look ? The problem is that I think they're not as good as TB (duh), Toronto. Oakland or even NY, who has looked like a joke, but somehow never dies. It's musica lb chairs for four teams with 2 available seats. I now anticipate the Sox will be left standing with somebody else when all is said and done. The only thing worse than blowing a playoff spot would be getting eliminated by the Yankees in a Wild Card game. Really, at this point, the most success I can dream for this team would be winning the Wild Card game before getting bounced in the ALDS. Before all this, I would have thought the Sox were going to the ALCS. That notion seems crazy now.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 12, 2021 19:34:54 GMT -5
Sigh. Well among other things, I think today is the day I finally gave up on Franchy. Sale and Schwarber both back within the next few days, so the good news is that this team is already substantially improved - and while it is a bafflingly common notion here that they punted on the season by only addind one all-star at the trade deadline, I still think Houck + Sale + Schwarber = a bigger upgrade than any other team in the division. (To be fair, this could be balanced against Duran being yet another black hole added to the lineup... at least for now.) The bad news is that they've squandered pretty much the entire lead over the Blue Jays and the Yankees. I don't guess I had to tell anyone that. With Franchy I had high Hope's. I don't anymore. He'll always K too much. Yeah he can hit a 480 foot bomb, but it's not how far you homer, but how often. And I'm not sure why you're baffled about the notion that they didn't do enough to help themselves at the deadline. They got an injured player who might not be able to play a position of need and didn't help their bullpen. They have a bunch of 5 inning starters. They needed to beef up the middle relief and Robles being awful was predictable and they needed late inning help for an overworked Barnes and Ottavino and didn't get it, and that is obvious every time they require at least 10 outs from the pen.
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Post by patford on Aug 12, 2021 19:37:04 GMT -5
Can everyone just relax now? The goal from here on in is to lose every game. Well except for when they play the Yankees. Suggestions: Shut down anyone who isn't 100%. Verdugo, Barnes, Sale, Bogaerts, Arroyo. Play Dalbec, Duran and Cordero every day. Give one of the bat only minor league guys a shot at DH. Most of those guys are oldish. Time to see if they can hit in MLB. Don't waste even one at bat on Schwarber. He's irrelevant the rest of the year and a free agent this off season. Get Seabold up if he's fully healthy. Yeah, guys - let’s LOSE!! Well I did say that should be the goal. And I'm completely serious.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 12, 2021 19:44:34 GMT -5
On the bright side, our rotation should be set for the rest of the year.
Houck Pivetta Sale ERod Eovaldi
I like it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 12, 2021 19:47:12 GMT -5
Yeah, guys - let’s LOSE!! Well I did say that should be the goal. And I'm completely serious. What's the point? To draft 12th instead of 18th? Because that's such a difference maker? I'd prefer they make the wild card instead of the Yankees. Besides, losing sucks especially when you get nothing useful out of it.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 12, 2021 19:49:43 GMT -5
didnt even know it was an early game. Not sure what to say. Stay the course, but in a span of 3 weeks we look like the worst team in the league. If Marwin isnt DFA'd in the next week, what the heck is the point ? I mean are you trying to win ? If not, give the playing time to someone who needs an extended look ? The problem is that I think they're not as good as TB (duh), Toronto. Oakland or even NY, who has looked like a joke, but somehow never dies. It's musica lb chairs for four teams with 2 available seats. I now anticipate the Sox will be left standing with somebody else when all is said and done. The only thing worse than blowing a playoff spot would be getting eliminated by the Yankees in a Wild Card game. Really, at this point, the most success I can dream for this team would be winning the Wild Card game before getting bounced in the ALDS. Before all this, I would have thought the Sox were going to the ALCS. That notion seems crazy now. Agreed. This is what happens when ownership and the Front Office don’t care a rip about this year’s team. It’s like “Major League” without Willie Mayes Hayes or the Wild Thing.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 12, 2021 19:55:38 GMT -5
Sigh. Well among other things, I think today is the day I finally gave up on Franchy. Sale and Schwarber both back within the next few days, so the good news is that this team is already substantially improved - and while it is a bafflingly common notion here that they punted on the season by only addind one all-star at the trade deadline, I still think Houck + Sale + Schwarber = a bigger upgrade than any other team in the division. (To be fair, this could be balanced against Duran being yet another black hole added to the lineup... at least for now.) The bad news is that they've squandered pretty much the entire lead over the Blue Jays and the Yankees. I don't guess I had to tell anyone that. With Franchy I had high Hope's. I don't anymore. He'll always K too much. Yeah he can hit a 480 foot bomb, but it's not how far you homer, but how often. And I'm not sure why you're baffled about the notion that they didn't do enough to help themselves at the deadline.They got an injured player who might not be able to play a position of need and didn't help their bullpen. They have a bunch of 5 inning starters. They needed to beef up the middle relief and Robles being awful was predictable and they needed late inning help for an overworked Barnes and Ottavino and didn't get it, and that is obvious every time they require at least 10 outs from the pen. Not the idea that they didn't make the right moves at the deadline - reasonable people can disagree on that - but that they *punted on the season* at the deadline. But I don't think there's any reason to get into that again.
I do think the Robles addition was weird.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 12, 2021 20:50:27 GMT -5
They announced preseason that they were all but allergic to exceeding the salary cap this year. RESETTING it was the mantra they were singing. As the result, we pretty much expected a mediocre year. And then the Sox overachieved and we believed.
The current funk would have been a lot easier to swallow if they had not teased us with visions of post season glory. And we forgot the mantra. Staying under the salary cap, (sorry, resetting the damn thing) is the driving force, and it explains everything. Schwarber instead of Rizzo. No bullpen help, save for Ottovino, when we all wanted more at the outset, even the Scherff for cash and Gretel. Perez instead of a significant starter.
Predictions on this site centered on 84-85 wins with a range of 77 to 90 at the extremes.
We should not be surprised, but that will not stop us from being greatly disappointed. The WC now looks like crap because we thought there was a chance for more.
Please remember that we are Red Sox nation We used to know how to suffer. Welcome to the past.
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Post by jmei on Aug 12, 2021 20:54:17 GMT -5
The problem is that I think they're not as good as TB (duh), Toronto. Oakland or even NY, who has looked like a joke, but somehow never dies. It's musica lb chairs for four teams with 2 available seats. I now anticipate the Sox will be left standing with somebody else when all is said and done. The only thing worse than blowing a playoff spot would be getting eliminated by the Yankees in a Wild Card game. Really, at this point, the most success I can dream for this team would be winning the Wild Card game before getting bounced in the ALDS. Before all this, I would have thought the Sox were going to the ALCS. That notion seems crazy now. Agreed. This is what happens when ownership and the Front Office don’t care a rip about this year’s team. It’s like “Major League” without Willie Mayes Hayes or the Wild Thing. There’s a major contradiction between the idea that “this team is hopeless” and the idea that “they should have done more at the trade deadline.” This is not a sport where adding an extra player or two makes a huge difference in the win column. The team is what it is. I think they’ve got a major run left in the. Add in Sale, Schwarber and Arroyo and subtract (or play less) Gonzalez, Santana, Dalbec, Duran and the fringier bullpen arms, and this team is as good as any in the division in terms of true talent.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 12, 2021 21:07:26 GMT -5
Agreed. This is what happens when ownership and the Front Office don’t care a rip about this year’s team. It’s like “Major League” without Willie Mayes Hayes or the Wild Thing. There’s a major contradiction between the idea that “this team is hopeless” and the idea that “they should have done more at the trade deadline.” This is not a sport where adding an extra player or two makes a huge difference in the win column. The team is what it is. I think they’ve got a major run left in the. Add in Sale, Schwarber and Arroyo and subtract (or play less) Gonzalez, Santana, Dalbec, Duran and the fringier bullpen arms, and this team is as good as any in the division in terms of true talent. Also, it was danged interminable but now they're finally through the really difficult stretch of divisional play. From here on they have the easiest schedule in the division. Strength of schedule:
Rays: .508 Red Sox: .487 Blue Jays: .493 Yankees: .513
They'll need to win some games against the Rays and Yankees. But hopefully Sale and Schwarber can help with that.
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Post by itsdunkindonutstime on Aug 12, 2021 21:09:48 GMT -5
Correct me if I am wrong on this, but if the season had ended today The Sox would fly out to Oakland for WC 1 game takes it all and the winner gets to play Houston ? Yikes!
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 12, 2021 21:11:28 GMT -5
Can everyone just relax now? The goal from here on in is to lose every game. Well except for when they play the Yankees. Suggestions: Shut down anyone who isn't 100%. Verdugo, Barnes, Sale, Bogaerts, Arroyo. Play Dalbec, Duran and Cordero every day. Give one of the bat only minor league guys a shot at DH. Most of those guys are oldish. Time to see if they can hit in MLB. Don't waste even one at bat on Schwarber. He's irrelevant the rest of the year and a free agent this off season. Get Seabold up if he's fully healthy. Some of the these reactions are incredible. I get that the current slump is upsetting, but do you actually think this is reasonable? Imagine if a team leading the wild card completely threw in the towel, what do you think the reaction would be, both around Boston and nationally? I don't disagree with your general point, but you do realize that the Red Sox are NOT leading the wildcard? That would be Oakland
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 12, 2021 21:15:42 GMT -5
There’s a major contradiction between the idea that “this team is hopeless” and the idea that “they should have done more at the trade deadline.” This is not a sport where adding an extra player or two makes a huge difference in the win column. The team is what it is. I think they’ve got a major run left in the. Add in Sale, Schwarber and Arroyo and subtract (or play less) Gonzalez, Santana, Dalbec, Duran and the fringier bullpen arms, and this team is as good as any in the division in terms of true talent. Also, it was danged interminable but now they're finally through the really difficult stretch of divisional play. From here on they have the easiest schedule in the division. Strength of schedule: Rays: .508 Red Sox: .487 Blue Jays: .493 Yankees: .513 They'll need to win some games against the Rays and Yankees. But hopefully Sale and Schwarber can help with that.
They lined up Sale to face the O's and avoid both the Rays and Yankees
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Post by Guidas on Aug 12, 2021 21:17:55 GMT -5
Agreed. This is what happens when ownership and the Front Office don’t care a rip about this year’s team. It’s like “Major League” without Willie Mayes Hayes or the Wild Thing. There’s a major contradiction between the idea that “this team is hopeless” and the idea that “they should have done more at the trade deadline.” This is not a sport where adding an extra player or two makes a huge difference in the win column. The team is what it is. I think they’ve got a major run left in the. Add in Sale, Schwarber and Arroyo and subtract (or play less) Gonzalez, Santana, Dalbec, Duran and the fringier bullpen arms, and this team is as good as any in the division in terms of true talent. I think Scherzer and Kimbrel or one of Rizzo/Bryant would’ve made huge difference and they may only be 1-2 games out if not tied for first. I think Bryant or Rizzo create a domino effect in the line-up and another solid starter could’ve meant no Richards or Perez after the 30th because they’d be replaced by Scherzer and Houck. And I think that could’ve been done without giving up Casas and Duran and maybe even Groome.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 12, 2021 21:18:09 GMT -5
They announced preseason that they were all but allergic to exceeding the salary cap this year. RESETTING it was the mantra they were singing. As the result, we pretty much expected a mediocre year. And then the Sox overachieved and we believed. The current funk would have been a lot easier to swallow if they had not teased us with visions of post season glory. And we forgot the mantra. Staying under the salary cap, (sorry, resetting the damn thing) is the driving force, and it explains everything. Schwarber instead of Rizzo. No bullpen help, save for Ottovino, when we all wanted more at the outset, even the Scherff for cash and Gretel. Perez instead of a significant starter. Predictions on this site centered on 84-85 wins with a range of 77 to 90 at the extremes. We should not be surprised, but that will not stop us from being greatly disappointed. The WC now looks like crap because we thought there was a chance for more. Please remember that we are Red Sox nation We used to know how to suffer. Welcome to the past. This exactly. I was pondering this today as the offense was in a coma and Robles was balking in a run. 2019 was pretty horrible - The team went into the year totally unprepared. 2020 - yuck. COVID, no Cora, not much of anything good. Then this year - Cora returns, they played well in spring training, they were the comeback kids in the first half of the season. Many here were seduced by that success. Then reality hit, the short starters blew out the pen, the offense went to sleep, and now we are all revisiting our preseason predictions and taking a good hard look at the team and what it lacks. Of course we are disappointed. I guess I will settle back and try to separate myself from the team a bit emotionally. If Sale and Schwarber make a big difference (and Arroyo and Brasier return, meaning we can say goodbye to some real non-performers) - who knows???
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Post by Guidas on Aug 12, 2021 21:18:52 GMT -5
Also, it was danged interminable but now they're finally through the really difficult stretch of divisional play. From here on they have the easiest schedule in the division. Strength of schedule: Rays: .508 Red Sox: .487 Blue Jays: .493 Yankees: .513 They'll need to win some games against the Rays and Yankees. But hopefully Sale and Schwarber can help with that.
They lined up Sale to face the O's and avoid both the Rays and Yankees Yeah, wtf is that planning all about. Wins against the Rays and now the Yanks effectively count twice.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 12, 2021 21:30:50 GMT -5
I sense s philosophical conflict between Bloom & Cora. At least regarding revamping the bullpen in mid-August.
Bloom is willing to cut bait with players and rotate AAA pitchers up. Cora: wants to live or die with his current roster.
Cora is not Bloom-esque.
Sources: just surmising
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 12, 2021 21:55:57 GMT -5
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