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8/20-8/22 Red Sox vs. Rangers Thread
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 22, 2021 15:14:25 GMT -5
Nothing against Xander as I love him but he is a Caribe island guy and IMO has that vibe, that can be a good thing to but intensity is not his thing. I think the fact is there is no captain and none of the veterans have that gene or cashet. As far as the blunders go I think it has a bit to do with guys trying to do too much by being aggressive and it has backfired at every turn. Rounding bases or trying for the extra base is a team trying to make something happen because they are feeling the pressure and the weight of the situation they find themselves in. Just my thoughts on the subject. In amny ways, I think this falls on Cora. If not their leader - although the team as a whole seems to perceive him as such, based on public comments - defense and base running philosophy rests with him, as does plate discipline philosophy. In fact, he's repeatedly expressed some frustration with the latter and defense. I agree, though, when the team gets behind lately they start chasing balls out of the zone and trying to do too much on the basis. In football we'd call this "lack of discipline" or just "failure to execute your assignment." Much the same on the bases (don't give away outs, they are finite) and chasing pitches (don't give the pitcher "free" strikes). Also, when they were winning and still did this - Devers in particular seems to find pitches six inches off the ground irresistible - we tend to ignore or forget, but it's been happening enough all year to be noticeable. You don't always need crazy intensity... remember Manny in 07 (?) turned the series around by saying essentially he didn't care. They just need to pitch better hit better and play better defense. That said, if they aren't paying Dustin Pedroia to come in and get this team going, what are they paying him for? |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 22, 2021 15:43:41 GMT -5
Rays beat the pale hose 9-0. As tied with SF in 10th.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 22, 2021 16:01:43 GMT -5
Nothing against Xander as I love him but he is a Caribe island guy and IMO has that vibe, that can be a good thing to but intensity is not his thing. I think the fact is there is no captain and none of the veterans have that gene or cashet. As far as the blunders go I think it has a bit to do with guys trying to do too much by being aggressive and it has backfired at every turn. Rounding bases or trying for the extra base is a team trying to make something happen because they are feeling the pressure and the weight of the situation they find themselves in. Just my thoughts on the subject. In amny ways, I think this falls on Cora. If not their leader - although the team as a whole seems to perceive him as such, based on public comments - defense and base running philosophy rests with him, as does plate discipline philosophy. In fact, he's repeatedly expressed some frustration with the latter and defense. I agree, though, when the team gets behind lately they start chasing balls out of the zone and trying to do too much on the basis. In football we'd call this "lack of discipline" or just "failure to execute your assignment." Much the same on the bases (don't give away outs, they are finite) and chasing pitches (don't give the pitcher "free" strikes). Also, when they were winning and still did this - Devers in particular seems to find pitches six inches off the ground irresistible - we tend to ignore or forget, but it's been happening enough all year to be noticeable. Cora can't do it all. It seems like you would be right and he is the leader and all that but hasn't he been a leading contender for Manager of the Year? I would say yes. I would also say the team wouldn't have been in this position if it wasn't for him. Their is this thing called the Patriot Way right. Can Bill do that on his own or does it take players who buy in and lead to make it a real thing. It was Brady for many years but he learned it from Bruschi and McGinest among others before him. Great teams need leaders among the players, coaches can't do it all. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2021 0:18:11 GMT -5
Haha, great choices....
Pete Abraham
@peteabe
·
6h
MLB announced the Red Sox and Orioles are scheduled to play in the Little League Classic at 7 p.m. on Aug. 21, 2022 in Williamsport, Pa.
The teams were scheduled to play in the 2020 event that was canceled by the pandemic.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 23, 2021 1:17:43 GMT -5
The problem is that Glasshalfempty is that way even when the Red Sox win! Look back at the thread. Complains about Schwarber in a 6-0 win, after getting on base 4 times, complains he was the DH, complains Schwarber is not playing 1B. Glasshalfempty searches for a negative continuously taking over the title of biggest downer from Manfred. Team is awesome. Schwarber helped put this team over the top. Best trade ever. Got it. I mean, it's a miracle that they're 1- against the mighty (now 43-80) Rangers at the moment. Just can't be annoyed with the team when they just blew a 10.5 game lead and just got swept by the team that just passed them, even though they showed so much resiliency the next day against a lineup of .680 OPS hitters and a starter with a 5 ERA in a season they're trying to get the best draft pick imaginable. Name change: Drieduporangepulp2 |
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Post by jmei on Aug 23, 2021 6:20:32 GMT -5
Please cut out the personal sniping. Thanks.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 23, 2021 7:18:28 GMT -5
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 23, 2021 7:21:47 GMT -5
Haha, great choices.... Pete Abraham @peteabe · 6h MLB announced the Red Sox and Orioles are scheduled to play in the Little League Classic at 7 p.m. on Aug. 21, 2022 in Williamsport, Pa. The teams were scheduled to play in the 2020 event that was canceled by the pandemic. MLB must have seen the Red Sox playing like Little Leaguers on Saturday night |
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Post by jkfer98 on Aug 23, 2021 8:48:38 GMT -5
14-19 since Duran’s call up and Kiké moved out of the “every day CFer” role. Honestly I don’t think it’ll be that long until Duran gets sent back down. When Arroyo returns you have to make him the every day 2B and Kiké the every day CFer again. There’s no reason to continue to allow the defense to suffer, especially with Duran not hitting. And there’s no reason to regulate Duran to a full-time bench role when he clearly needs to get ABs and get work in. Is there any reason why the regular lineup (when heathy) can’t be something like: 8 Kiké, 5 Devers, 6 Bogaerts, 3 Schwarber, DH JD, 9 Renfroe, 7 Verdugo, 2 Vaz/Plawecki, 4 Arroyo? Unless Schwarber REALLY can’t learn first? I think we’re kind of screwed if the Shaw/Dalbec platoon survives the rest of the season. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2021 9:01:07 GMT -5
14-19 since Duran’s call up and Kiké moved out of the “every day CFer” role. Honestly I don’t think it’ll be that long until Duran gets sent back down. When Arroyo returns you have to make him the every day 2B and Kiké the every day CFer again. There’s no reason to continue to allow the defense to suffer, especially with Duran not hitting. And there’s no reason to regulate Duran to a full-time bench role when he clearly needs to get ABs and get work in. Is there any reason why the regular lineup (when heathy) can’t be something like: 8 Kiké, 5 Devers, 6 Bogaerts, 3 Schwarber, DH JD, 9 Renfroe, 7 Verdugo, 2 Vaz/Plawecki, 4 Arroyo? Unless Schwarber REALLY can’t learn first? I think we’re kind of screwed if the Shaw/Dalbec platoon survives the rest of the season. The thing that is surprising to me is not the drop-off in CF from Hernandez to Duran, but the drop-off at 2b from Arroyo to Hernandez. I thought Hernandez was supposed to be a great defensive 2b. Then of course the acquisition of Schwarber has resulted in the shoehorning of JD Martinez into the outfield which further destroys the outfield defense. At least with Schwarber, a 1b mystery replaces a bad defensive 1b, so you hope you don't have worse replacing bad defensively at 1b. Of course the starters don't go long and the pen has been awful, and the hitters haven't hit when it matters, so add in awful defense and baserunning, too, and you get a team that can't do anything right. So maybe Arroyo coming back would be huge for the Sox, and they go back to sticking Hernandez in CF, move JDM to DH, and try to live at 1b with Schwarber. The Red Sox need to put forth the best version of themselves over the final 38 games or whatever it is. |
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Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2021 9:22:52 GMT -5
How does it look in Boston? This game going to happen? I have a good feeling about today.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,828 
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Post by cdj on Aug 23, 2021 9:25:58 GMT -5
Hernandez 4
Schwarber 7
Martinez DH
Bogaerts 6
Devers 5
Renfroe 9
Plawecki 2
Verdugo 7
Dalbec 3
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Post by jmei on Aug 23, 2021 9:30:46 GMT -5
How does it look in Boston? This game going to happen? I have a good feeling about today. Remnants of Henri are going to start arriving in the afternoon, but they might be able to get enough of the game in before the heavy stuff hits. |
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 23, 2021 9:40:49 GMT -5
Hernandez 4 Schwarber 7 Martinez DH Bogaerts 6 Devers 5 Renfroe 9 Plawecki 2 Verdugo 7 Dalbec 3 Gonna guess typo and Verdugo will be actually be shifting to CF ? |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2021 9:42:16 GMT -5
Hernandez 4 Schwarber 7 Martinez DH Bogaerts 6 Devers 5 Renfroe 9 Plawecki 2 Verdugo 7 Dalbec 3 Gonna guess typo and Verdugo will be actually be shifting to CF ? |
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Post by patford on Aug 23, 2021 10:11:24 GMT -5
14-19 since Duran’s call up and Kiké moved out of the “every day CFer” role. Honestly I don’t think it’ll be that long until Duran gets sent back down. When Arroyo returns you have to make him the every day 2B and Kiké the every day CFer again. There’s no reason to continue to allow the defense to suffer, especially with Duran not hitting. And there’s no reason to regulate Duran to a full-time bench role when he clearly needs to get ABs and get work in. Is there any reason why the regular lineup (when heathy) can’t be something like: 8 Kiké, 5 Devers, 6 Bogaerts, 3 Schwarber, DH JD, 9 Renfroe, 7 Verdugo, 2 Vaz/Plawecki, 4 Arroyo? Unless Schwarber REALLY can’t learn first? I think we’re kind of screwed if the Shaw/Dalbec platoon survives the rest of the season. I'm confident Duran is not a good CF and never will be better than well below average. He should be moved to LF or better yet back to 2B. The reason not to send Duran down comes down to whether or not management still thinks the team can win a WS. If the thinking is this team can not possibly win it all then the focus should be on seeing if Dalbec and Duran can show improvement at the plate and if Duran can play 2B. |
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Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2021 10:14:05 GMT -5
14-19 since Duran’s call up and Kiké moved out of the “every day CFer” role. Honestly I don’t think it’ll be that long until Duran gets sent back down. When Arroyo returns you have to make him the every day 2B and Kiké the every day CFer again. There’s no reason to continue to allow the defense to suffer, especially with Duran not hitting. And there’s no reason to regulate Duran to a full-time bench role when he clearly needs to get ABs and get work in. Is there any reason why the regular lineup (when heathy) can’t be something like: 8 Kiké, 5 Devers, 6 Bogaerts, 3 Schwarber, DH JD, 9 Renfroe, 7 Verdugo, 2 Vaz/Plawecki, 4 Arroyo? Unless Schwarber REALLY can’t learn first? I think we’re kind of screwed if the Shaw/Dalbec platoon survives the rest of the season. I'm confident Duran is not a good CF and never will be better than well below average. He should be moved to LF or better yet back to 2B. The reason not to send Duran down comes down to whether or not management still thinks the team can win a WS. If the thinking is this team can not possibly win it all then the focus should be on seeing if Dalbec and Duran can show improvement at the plate and if Duran can play 2B. That seems wildly premature. I’ve seen Duran look a bit shaky on some reads, but I would never say he can’t be at least average. With his speed, even if he makes imperfect reads, he can make up for them. It seems way too early to give up on him in CF. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 23, 2021 10:21:18 GMT -5
RedSoxStats posted something about Duran's jump off the bat being close to the worst in the majors. The tiny sample size DRS/UZR are ugly so far.
I am bearish on Duran and would be looking to cash in on his super high prospect ranking.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 23, 2021 10:26:32 GMT -5
14-19 since Duran’s call up and Kiké moved out of the “every day CFer” role. Honestly I don’t think it’ll be that long until Duran gets sent back down. When Arroyo returns you have to make him the every day 2B and Kiké the every day CFer again. There’s no reason to continue to allow the defense to suffer, especially with Duran not hitting. And there’s no reason to regulate Duran to a full-time bench role when he clearly needs to get ABs and get work in. Is there any reason why the regular lineup (when heathy) can’t be something like: 8 Kiké, 5 Devers, 6 Bogaerts, 3 Schwarber, DH JD, 9 Renfroe, 7 Verdugo, 2 Vaz/Plawecki, 4 Arroyo? Unless Schwarber REALLY can’t learn first? I think we’re kind of screwed if the Shaw/Dalbec platoon survives the rest of the season. I'm confident Duran is not a good CF and never will be better than well below average. He should be moved to LF or better yet back to 2B. The reason not to send Duran down comes down to whether or not management still thinks the team can win a WS. If the thinking is this team can not possibly win it all then the focus should be on seeing if Dalbec and Duran can show improvement at the plate and if Duran can play 2B. In the construct we are playing out the string for 2022 then I don't mind Duran trying 2B (unless the team feels strongly against his ability to play there). I still would rather Schwarber getting reps at 1B because my assumption is the team is interested in bringing him back next year. It would help in knowing how his bat/glove would fit in 2022 and beyond. They could move Verdugo back to CF and stick Schwarber in LF (which is what I was hoping the plan was when they got him). If he's adequate enough then maybe they look for outfield help in the off-season and play Schwarber at 1B/DH with the occasional LF appearance. Is there a reason to not try Dalbec at LF? It might help his value if he can rotate around 1B, 3B and LF rather than being a platoon 1B. Off-topic, but way for Jeter Downs seize the moment and take over a glaring vacancy at 2B. Any word if he has been dealing with something all year? I'm just really surprised at what a poor year he's had. |
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Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2021 10:31:10 GMT -5
RedSoxStats posted something about Duran's jump off the bat being close to the worst in the majors. The tiny sample size DRS/UZR are ugly so far. I am bearish on Duran and would be looking to cash in on his super high prospect ranking. Out of curiosity, are you bearish primarily because of D? Or overall? I always expected him to struggle a bit on promotion… it just seems like it is pretty natural to have a lot to deal with after that jump. But he has looked promising at the plate to me. If he can lay off the high fastball, he’ll be fine (I think). |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 23, 2021 10:38:03 GMT -5
RedSoxStats posted something about Duran's jump off the bat being close to the worst in the majors. The tiny sample size DRS/UZR are ugly so far. I am bearish on Duran and would be looking to cash in on his super high prospect ranking. Out of curiosity, are you bearish primarily because of D? Or overall? I always expected him to struggle a bit on promotion… it just seems like it is pretty natural to have a lot to deal with after that jump. But he has looked promising at the plate to me. If he can lay off the high fastball, he’ll be fine (I think). It's really hard to carry him while he's figuring things out at the plate if his defense is awful. Strike outs and lack of walks are a serious concern. 36.4% strike out to 2.3% walk rate. He's also 24. It's not 26, but he's not "young" either. He has some, but limited time, to figure it all out. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 23, 2021 10:42:32 GMT -5
The spreadsheets have his bat at around .260/.315/.400. I'd take the over on that, but it shows that his track record isn't off the charts. If his defense stinks then I don't he's adding a lot to a major league team in the present.
He's going to turn 25 in a couple weeks, we're already past the point where big improvements are the default expectation.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,828
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Post by cdj on Aug 23, 2021 10:42:56 GMT -5
Hernandez 4 Schwarber 7 Martinez DH Bogaerts 6 Devers 5 Renfroe 9 Plawecki 2 Verdugo 7 Dalbec 3 Gonna guess typo and Verdugo will be actually be shifting to CF ? Lol u right |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2021 10:46:47 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, are you bearish primarily because of D? Or overall? I always expected him to struggle a bit on promotion… it just seems like it is pretty natural to have a lot to deal with after that jump. But he has looked promising at the plate to me. If he can lay off the high fastball, he’ll be fine (I think). It's really hard to carry him while he's figuring things out at the plate if his defense is awful. Strike outs and lack of walks are a serious concern. 36.4% strike out to 2.3% walk rate. He's also 24. It's not 26, but he's not "young" either. He has some, but limited time, to figure it all out. I'm not ready to write him off, but he'd probably be best served coming off the bench where they can utilize his speed. For next year, I think he should get a legit crack at CF. The heat of the pennant race is not the time for a rookie to try to figure things out. Next season, he should get that time to figure things out in Boston. When it's early you can struggle like a Dustin Pedroia did and work on things. The power is there. The speed certainly is. Experience will be a big help as far as defense goes and learning to lay off the high fastball, if he can. I think he ought to be given a chance to do that. But next season makes more sense at this point given his struggles. I think if the Sox make the playoffs he should definitely be one of the 26 players on the roster. |
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Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2021 11:03:08 GMT -5
The spreadsheets have his bat at around .260/.315/.400. I'd take the over on that, but it shows that his track record isn't off the charts. If his defense stinks then I don't he's adding a lot to a major league team in the present. He's going to turn 25 in a couple weeks, we're already past the point where big improvements are the default expectation. That’s fair. For what it is worth, if he could be an average defender, put up those numbers, and steal 30 bases, I’d be content. But I also think he can at least hit for a higher slugging. Between his home run power and the likelihood he can turn what would normally be singles into doubles, I am optimistic he can have a good number of extra base hits. |
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