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8/24-8/26 Red Sox vs. Twins Thread
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Post by manfred on Aug 25, 2021 22:28:03 GMT -5
Maybe. But Verdugo with three terrible swings with a man on third was brutal. It was, but I'd be hard pressed to blame a loss on the guy who's 8 for his last 12 because of one bad AB. I didn’t say he wasn’t hot… but that was a terribly blown opportunity.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2021 22:29:47 GMT -5
I blame Vazquez tonight. Forgetting how many outs there were cost them the win in 9. Maybe. But Verdugo with three terrible swings with a man on third was brutal. We aren’t even talking about that at bat if Vazquez does something most little leaguers would do. Games over and we are joyous in here about our new acquisitions walk off
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 25, 2021 22:30:57 GMT -5
It was, but I'd be hard pressed to blame a loss on the guy who's 8 for his last 12 because of one bad AB. I didn’t say he wasn’t hot… but that was a terribly blown opportunity. Yeah, timing in baseball is everything. You have to come thru when it matters.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2021 22:32:44 GMT -5
I didn’t say he wasn’t hot… but that was a terribly blown opportunity. Yeah, timing in baseball is everything. You have to come thru when it matters. This year he’s .313/.421/.594 in high leverage situations. It was a bad at bat but that’s all it was. I can live with bad at bats. I can’t live with sub-little league bullshit from a “leader”
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Post by manfred on Aug 25, 2021 22:33:17 GMT -5
Maybe. But Verdugo with three terrible swings with a man on third was brutal. We aren’t even talking about that at bat if Vazquez does something most little leaguers would do. Games over and we are joyous in here about our new acquisitions walk off True… I mean, teams lose games. You can run it back to Pivetta. In the end, there were only a few guys who should sleep well tonight.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 25, 2021 22:35:22 GMT -5
Yeah, timing in baseball is everything. You have to come thru when it matters. This year he’s .313/.421/.594 in high leverage situations. It was a bad at bat but that’s all it was. I can live with bad at bats. I can’t live with sub-little league bullshit from a “leader” Yeah, the team IQ is pretty low this season, from bad strike zone judgment, bad baserunning, bad situational hitting, bad defense...this team does not help itself.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 25, 2021 22:36:19 GMT -5
Raffi and JD's O-fers stick out big time - way too many non-productive at bats in big spots.
CVaz, or Pivetta's poor start, stand out in this game - oh yes, and Robles implosion. Lots of messes.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2021 22:36:21 GMT -5
Schwarber did his damn best
Austin Davis was a stud
Kikè is great
That’s all I got for positives
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 25, 2021 22:53:58 GMT -5
Maybe. But Verdugo with three terrible swings with a man on third was brutal. We aren’t even talking about that at bat if Vazquez does something most little leaguers would do. Games over and we are joyous in here about our new acquisitions walk off Anyone want to make a list of the Vazquez gaffs on the basepaths in the past few weeks? It feels like it could be up to 10 at this point. On top of the passed balls and the erratic swings, it's been a disappointing regression for him this year.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 25, 2021 22:57:55 GMT -5
a pitch way inside and Vazquez swings at it which would have been ball four. How much wood can you get on a pitch like that. you can't get your bat inside the pitch to even drive it. Just a terrible pitch to swing at. this has to be looked at very strongly. Vaz has to know what the situation is and just take a walk. Kiké could have had 3 rbi's and closed to 2 runs with nobody out!!!!! It looked bad live, it looks even worse here:
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Post by incandenza on Aug 25, 2021 23:47:25 GMT -5
This year he’s .313/.421/.594 in high leverage situations. It was a bad at bat but that’s all it was. I can live with bad at bats. I can’t live with sub-little league bullshit from a “leader” Yeah, the team IQ is pretty low this season, from bad strike zone judgment, bad baserunning, bad situational hitting, bad defense...this team does not help itself. It's maddening. The one thing I'll mention re: Vazquez is that he was recently on the bereavement list. YMMV as to whether that's exculpatory for his recent rash of mental errors.
On the other hand, I am ready to light the torches and grab the pitchforks about guys standing in the box to admire their wall-ball singles. I mentioned it the other day regarding Bogaerts... I'm hardly an old school guy, but it drives me completely crazy! Like, if you could demonstrate you knew with absolute certainty your ball was going over the wall, feel free to stand around if that's fun for you to do, but they misjudge them so often! And how proud was Verdugo supposed to be about hitting a 350-foot homer even if it had gotten over the Monster?
Is it just me or is this more common now? Back in my day guys always hustled out of the box. (You see? You see what this is turning me into??)
BONUS COMPLAINT: Boy do I miss the days when this team knew how to draw walks. SO many swings at pitches outside the zone. And yet here's a fun fact: every single starter has a higher BB rate than their career average other than Dalbec (which in his case just means he walked more last season). Can't blame the players for being who they are, really. We have good hitters, but so many of them can be so aggravating when they're not on.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 25, 2021 23:58:20 GMT -5
Schwarber did his damn best Austin Davis was a stud Kikè is great That’s all I got for positives Yairo was 4 for 5 ( 2 HR ) Yorke was only 2 for 5 ( 1 HR )
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Post by incandenza on Aug 26, 2021 0:06:51 GMT -5
Last 7 games Raffi 3-24, 0 HR, 2 RBI JD 3-23, 0 HR, 0 RBI Xander 4-23, 0 HR, 2 RBI Hard to win many games when that is going on. It is even worse than I thought it was. One of these things is not like the others. Xander is mostly having good ABs, and a couple Ks in that stretch were prison shivs by the umpire. He got on base twice tonight he had a 123 wRC+ in August, 159 since August 10th. Devers and JDM, on the other hand, have both been below average hitters in August, which is a tough thing to stick in the middle of your lineup. Last 7 games Raffi 3-24, 0 HR, 2 RBI JD 3-23, 0 HR, 0 RBI Xander 4-23, 0 HR, 2 RBI Hard to win many games when that is going on. It is even worse than I thought it was. Weâve been discussing this since game 1: this team runs on that big three. They got off to huge starts, and the team was great. But the rest of the team canât carry them (even though they are not slouches⦠not slamming those supporting guys). Well, we were saying it at the beginning of the season, when it was true, but Verdugo, Renfroe, Kiké, Dalbec, and Schwarber have all been phenomenal in August. The dynamic has completely inverted! (With the exception that Xander is still good.) So it's not up to those three to carry the offense like it was in the first third of the season.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 26, 2021 6:00:05 GMT -5
This is what a team looks like when they are pressing. They are thinking too much rather than just playing loose and it shows with all the mistakes, playing tight under the pressure of a lost season.
Get back to just playing a kids a game guys, this isn't rocket science have some fun.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 26, 2021 8:06:18 GMT -5
Yeah, the team IQ is pretty low this season, from bad strike zone judgment, bad baserunning, bad situational hitting, bad defense...this team does not help itself. It's maddening. The one thing I'll mention re: Vazquez is that he was recently on the bereavement list. YMMV as to whether that's exculpatory for his recent rash of mental errors. On the other hand, I am ready to light the torches and grab the pitchforks about guys standing in the box to admire their wall-ball singles. I mentioned it the other day regarding Bogaerts... I'm hardly an old school guy, but it drives me completely crazy! Like, if you could demonstrate you knew with absolute certainty your ball was going over the wall, feel free to stand around if that's fun for you to do, but they misjudge them so often! And how proud was Verdugo supposed to be about hitting a 350-foot homer even if it had gotten over the Monster? Is it just me or is this more common now? Back in my day guys always hustled out of the box. (You see? You see what this is turning me into??) BONUS COMPLAINT: Boy do I miss the days when this team knew how to draw walks. SO many swings at pitches outside the zone. And yet here's a fun fact: every single starter has a higher BB rate than their career average other than Dalbec (which in his case just means he walked more last season). Can't blame the players for being who they are, really. We have good hitters, but so many of them can be so aggravating when they're not on.
You have hit on a few things that irk me as well. Even Schwarber stood and gestured into the dugout on his HR in the 9th which ended up in the 3rd row (certainly not a SaNo-doubter). Wouldn't have taken much for it to end up being off the wall as well. As for the no walks, It is not just the Red Sox but rather this is what is being valued by front offices these days....no fundamental baseball, no bunts, no advancing runners, no stealing....just hit HR's and doesn't matter if you strike out. It makes for a boring game so now we have the bat flips and show boating to try and make it exciting.
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Post by manfred on Aug 26, 2021 9:52:04 GMT -5
This has been a crazy season. Most of us had the Sox at 85-90 wins, and early on, many of us (certainly me) were a bit sheepish for underestimating them. But now, if they go .500 the rest of the way out, which seems possible, they will be what folks expected.
A circuitous route to an expected outcome.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Aug 26, 2021 10:17:17 GMT -5
It's maddening. The one thing I'll mention re: Vazquez is that he was recently on the bereavement list. YMMV as to whether that's exculpatory for his recent rash of mental errors. On the other hand, I am ready to light the torches and grab the pitchforks about guys standing in the box to admire their wall-ball singles. I mentioned it the other day regarding Bogaerts... I'm hardly an old school guy, but it drives me completely crazy! Like, if you could demonstrate you knew with absolute certainty your ball was going over the wall, feel free to stand around if that's fun for you to do, but they misjudge them so often! And how proud was Verdugo supposed to be about hitting a 350-foot homer even if it had gotten over the Monster? Is it just me or is this more common now? Back in my day guys always hustled out of the box. (You see? You see what this is turning me into??) BONUS COMPLAINT: Boy do I miss the days when this team knew how to draw walks. SO many swings at pitches outside the zone. And yet here's a fun fact: every single starter has a higher BB rate than their career average other than Dalbec (which in his case just means he walked more last season). Can't blame the players for being who they are, really. We have good hitters, but so many of them can be so aggravating when they're not on.
You have hit on a few things that irk me as well. Even Schwarber stood and gestured into the dugout on his HR in the 9th which ended up in the 3rd row (certainly not a SaNo-doubter). Wouldn't have taken much for it to end up being off the wall as well. As for the no walks, It is not just the Red Sox but rather this is what is being valued by front offices these days....no fundamental baseball, no bunts, no advancing runners, no stealing....just hit HR's and doesn't matter if you strike out. It makes for a boring game so now we have the bat flips and show boating to try and make it exciting. Schwarber hit the ball 440 feet. I was positive it was out on contact
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Post by incandenza on Aug 26, 2021 10:29:12 GMT -5
This has been a crazy season. Most of us had the Sox at 85-90 wins, and early on, many of us (certainly me) were a bit sheepish for underestimating them. But now, if they go .500 the rest of the way out, which seems possible, they will be what folks expected. A circuitous route to an expected outcome. Doing a quick averaging of the predictions in this thread... looks like the mean prediction was between 85 and 86 wins. They're currently on pace for 91, though they also have a stronger roster than they did for most of the season and a fairly easy schedule going forward.
All in all they've been healthier than anyone could have reasonably predicted at the start of the season, and you could argue that accounts for much of the difference between 86 and 91 wins.
(On the other hand, imagine knowing in advance what the starting pitchers' ERAs would be, and then making predictions.)
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Post by manfred on Aug 26, 2021 10:58:24 GMT -5
This has been a crazy season. Most of us had the Sox at 85-90 wins, and early on, many of us (certainly me) were a bit sheepish for underestimating them. But now, if they go .500 the rest of the way out, which seems possible, they will be what folks expected. A circuitous route to an expected outcome. Doing a quick averaging of the predictions in this thread... looks like the mean prediction was between 85 and 86 wins. They're currently on pace for 91, though they also have a stronger roster than they did for most of the season and a fairly easy schedule going forward.
All in all they've been healthier than anyone could have reasonably predicted at the start of the season, and you could argue that accounts for much of the difference between 86 and 91 wins.
(On the other hand, imagine knowing in advance what the starting pitchers' ERAs would be, and then making predictions.)
It’s true! Imagine saying that 2 of their 5 starters would be in the pen by August… and Pivetta would be putting up similar numbers to those he had in Philadelphia. I’m guessing people would predict catastrophe!
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 26, 2021 11:18:49 GMT -5
I'm happy with the season. I had them at 85 wins, I think, and right now their odds are pretty good of squeaking into the playoffs.
It's been a good year for the long term future, too. Of the major leaguers they have the rights for at least 2 more years - Whitlock had a big time breakout year. Sale, Pivetta, Arroyo, Renfroe and Houck increased their stock. Verdugo treaded water. Dalbec and Franchy stunk.
Good year for the prospects on the whole, too. Yorke's breakout is the most fun one in a while.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 26, 2021 12:08:28 GMT -5
Espinal RHP, Ockimey, Munoz ... free agents in October. On a worse team, they'd get some MLB time. That'd be cool.
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Post by manfred on Aug 26, 2021 12:14:00 GMT -5
Espinal RHP, Ockimey, Munoz ... free agents in October. On a worse team, they'd get some MLB time. That'd be cool. I’d love for Ockimey to get a cup of coffee. He’s been around for a while, done fine without ever breaking out, and it’d be nice.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 26, 2021 14:20:10 GMT -5
Don't think it will happen but I think Cora should bench Vazquez and Verdugo today for their mental mistakes yesterday. Maybe that will send a message to everybody to have their heads in the game.
I know today's managers can't be all old school, but I know that's what Dick Williams would have done. He also would have belittled the player to his face and the press. Cora shouldn't do that. He should be more diplomatic, but perhaps a benching can serve as a wakeup call for forgetting how many outs there are or not running hard out of the box.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 26, 2021 15:22:07 GMT -5
Don't think it will happen but I think Cora should bench Vazquez and Verdugo today for their mental mistakes yesterday. Maybe that will send a message to everybody to have their heads in the game. I know today's managers can't be all old school, but I know that's what Dick Williams would have done. He also would have belittled the player to his face and the press. Cora shouldn't do that. He should be more diplomatic, but perhaps a benching can serve as a wakeup call for forgetting how many outs there are or not running hard out of the box. Don't know about that. Look at the optics of Larussa publicaly chiding his rookie catcher as one of the many ways that could go wrong. I'm sure behind closed doors words are being exchanged. Plus it significantly weakens our defense if both of them are out at the same time. It's bad enough seeing JD lumber around LF like his legs are made of oak, I don't want to see both Schwarber and JD in the same outfield ever.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 26, 2021 15:45:04 GMT -5
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