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8/30 Gameday Thread: DSL and FCL in Focus - Five Games
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 30, 2021 7:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 30, 2021 9:25:07 GMT -5
The average field in the Affiliate Gameday Scoreboard Including the FCL and DSL appears to be positively bugged. As if they could seduce me with a Lyonell James average 40 points higher than it truly is.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 30, 2021 9:50:25 GMT -5
The average field in the Affiliate Gameday Scoreboard Including the FCL and DSL appears to be positively bugged. As if they could seduce me with a Lyonell James average 40 points higher than it truly is. It's because they're resuming a suspended game...so that average is from earlier in the month. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 30, 2021 10:14:38 GMT -5
Successfully projecting this morning's DSL starters (or "starters" in Pinero's case) will be the best thing I do all week.
Should've followed my instincts and moved LDLR into the Monday SP slot too.
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 30, 2021 10:58:53 GMT -5
The average field in the Affiliate Gameday Scoreboard Including the FCL and DSL appears to be positively bugged. As if they could seduce me with a Lyonell James average 40 points higher than it truly is. It's because they're resuming a suspended game...so that average is from earlier in the month. Oh that's wild. And to be fair, I've never built a website of that scale but that seems like an awfully strange way to implement that. |
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 30, 2021 12:56:00 GMT -5
Luis De La Rosa with a solid 5IP, 4H, 2ER, 2BB, 3K line today. Solid debut in the Sox org this season (especially if you remove his July 20 outing).
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 30, 2021 14:32:53 GMT -5
This is probably something I should've been paying more attention to over the years at a macro level but I just can't really recall any good examples - The Sox obviously like developing guys as starters even if they're relief-only profiles at the MLB level, but is there a general set point at which they'll scrap the starting experiment? Is it when they've proven they're not capable starting pitchers, when they're hit a certain point in their development (like, have reached AAA and need to start getting acclimated to how a reliever prepares), or is it sometimes a function of whether or not that team in the organization has enough starters to fill a rotation? Maybe a combo of all 3?
I mostly ask because of AJ Politi. Seems to have a two-pitch mix that could generally play as an MLB reliever but has been pretty terrible as a starter this year. Would wonder given how stacked that rotation is if he transitions to the bullpen at some point.
The flip side of the coin is Chris Murphy. If he doesn't fix the command/homer issues he's probably a reliever at the MLB level, but it's pretty hard to justify the transition when he's pitching as well as he has been.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 30, 2021 14:52:22 GMT -5
I think part of it is taking some of the guys who legitimately have the durability and seeing if they can get the other parts to connect. Also, I think there's good reason to think that it helps in a pitchers' approach and pitch mix if/when they move back to the bullpen. Kind of a different era in terms of how they developed guys, but I don't think there's any chance that Papelbon turns into that kind of dominant reliever and isn't working out with the starters. And when you look at it, the best relievers are usually guys who worked as starters until the high minors, even if they had a pretty clear relief profile. Darwinzon Hernandez, for example.
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 30, 2021 14:58:19 GMT -5
This is probably something I should've been paying more attention to over the years at a macro level but I just can't really recall any good examples - The Sox obviously like developing guys as starters even if they're relief-only profiles at the MLB level, but is there a general set point at which they'll scrap the starting experiment? Is it when they've proven they're not capable starting pitchers, when they're hit a certain point in their development (like, have reached AAA and need to start getting acclimated to how a reliever prepares), or is it sometimes a function of whether or not that team in the organization has enough starters to fill a rotation? Maybe a combo of all 3? I mostly ask because of AJ Politi. Seems to have a two-pitch mix that could generally play as an MLB reliever but has been pretty terrible as a starter this year. Would wonder given how stacked that rotation is if he transitions to the bullpen at some point. The flip side of the coin is Chris Murphy. If he doesn't fix the command/homer issues he's probably a reliever at the MLB level, but it's pretty hard to justify the transition when he's pitching as well as he has been. I don't necessarily have a good answer to this question overall, but I do recall some instances of the Sox trying guys as starters for pretty long time. Papelbon's first appearance was a start for instance. Had a couple of starts in fact. edit: Crap, beaten to the punch on the Papelbon reference. Well, they also started Andrew Miller for a good bit of time and Darwinzon Hernandez was probably a starter for longer than some people thought was reasonable? Idk. |
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Post by manfred on Aug 30, 2021 15:21:50 GMT -5
I thought Papelbon had some issue with his shoulder that made starting risky. Am I making that up?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 30, 2021 15:30:25 GMT -5
I thought Papelbon had some issue with his shoulder that made starting risky. Am I making that up? I think so but I do recall that he didn't want to be a reliever at first then decided he liked closing. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 30, 2021 15:30:59 GMT -5
I thought Papelbon had some issue with his shoulder that made starting risky. Am I making that up? My memory is that he didn't make the rotation one year, then he fell into the closer role after they gave up on Foulke after like one game and then they didn't want to mess with him after he was a stud in the role. |
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Post by ramireja on Aug 30, 2021 15:39:16 GMT -5
A bit of an interesting stat nugget from today's FCL game (FCL Sox won by the way pushing their record 26-15): Every player in the lineup got a hit with five players tallying two hits (Mayer, Ugueto, Miller, Belen, and Garcia), whereas every player in the lineup also struck out with four players striking out twice (Bonaci, Mayer, Gonzalez, and Belen).
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 30, 2021 15:42:48 GMT -5
I think part of it is taking some of the guys who legitimately have the durability and seeing if they can get the other parts to connect. Also, I think there's good reason to think that it helps in a pitchers' approach and pitch mix if/when they move back to the bullpen. Kind of a different era in terms of how they developed guys, but I don't think there's any chance that Papelbon turns into that kind of dominant reliever and isn't working out with the starters. And when you look at it, the best relievers are usually guys who worked as starters until the high minors, even if they had a pretty clear relief profile. Darwinzon Hernandez, for example. Yeah I get the logic behind trying them as starters and agree with what you're saying, I think the part I'm curious about the mechanics of is when/why they decide to cut the starter experiment for particular guys. Like you mention with Darwinzon, he was a pure starter until he got up to Portland in 2018 where they started giving him some experience out of the bullpen. Obviously we had a pretty good idea he was a future reliever at that point, the curious guy in me would ask "Okay why choose the time you did to start making that transition?". I get that, like promotions, it's one of those things that there's no "one size fits all" way of approaching, it depends on the player. For some it just becomes apparent the parts won't connect earlier on. But, again like promotions, I think it's an aspect of minor league development that people don't really have a good understanding of the mechanics behind, and I love learning more about stuff like that. |
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 30, 2021 16:00:35 GMT -5
I have a question about the development list. Rio Gomez and Jake Thompson were pitching very poorly and were put on the development list and after they returned, they have been pitching very well. Alan Marrero was just added to the list and I assume he will be hitting great. A.J. Politi looks like a good candidate for the list. What I would like to know is what do they do with the players that changes them so dramatically?
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 30, 2021 16:15:40 GMT -5
I have a question about the development list. Rio Gomez and Jake Thompson were pitching very poorly and were put on the development list and after they returned, they have been pitching very well. Alan Marrero was just added to the list and I assume he will be hitting great. A.J. Politi looks like a good candidate for the list. What I would like to know is what do they do with the players that changes them so dramatically? The development list is basically this year’s phantom IL. To my knowledge, the teams don’t do anything special with the players on the DEV list. It’s basically roster manipulation. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 30, 2021 16:25:28 GMT -5
I thought Papelbon had some issue with his shoulder that made starting risky. Am I making that up? My memory is that he didn't make the rotation one year, then he fell into the closer role after they gave up on Foulke after like one game and then they didn't want to mess with him after he was a stud in the role. He had a shoulder subluxation in late 2006. The next year they were thinking about working him out as a starter but he basically told them he'd prefer to close, IIRC, so they scrapped the idea. |
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 30, 2021 16:26:38 GMT -5
I think part of it is taking some of the guys who legitimately have the durability and seeing if they can get the other parts to connect. Also, I think there's good reason to think that it helps in a pitchers' approach and pitch mix if/when they move back to the bullpen. Kind of a different era in terms of how they developed guys, but I don't think there's any chance that Papelbon turns into that kind of dominant reliever and isn't working out with the starters. And when you look at it, the best relievers are usually guys who worked as starters until the high minors, even if they had a pretty clear relief profile. Darwinzon Hernandez, for example. I understand the idea and agree. But it's important to point out a correlation != causation point here in that the best relievers are the ones who worked as starters for as long as possible. Well holding all other variables constant, better pitchers last longer as starters, even if they have relief profiles. |
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 30, 2021 16:28:49 GMT -5
My memory is that he didn't make the rotation one year, then he fell into the closer role after they gave up on Foulke after like one game and then they didn't want to mess with him after he was a stud in the role. He had a shoulder subluxation in late 2006. The next year they were thinking about working him out as a starter but he basically told them he'd prefer to close, IIRC, so they scrapped the idea. He also had a weird profile in that he was a college closer who the Sox tried out as a starter and then converted back to a reliever iirc. |
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Post by soxin8 on Aug 30, 2021 17:06:47 GMT -5
This is probably something I should've been paying more attention to over the years at a macro level but I just can't really recall any good examples - The Sox obviously like developing guys as starters even if they're relief-only profiles at the MLB level, but is there a general set point at which they'll scrap the starting experiment? Is it when they've proven they're not capable starting pitchers, when they're hit a certain point in their development (like, have reached AAA and need to start getting acclimated to how a reliever prepares), or is it sometimes a function of whether or not that team in the organization has enough starters to fill a rotation? Maybe a combo of all 3? I mostly ask because of AJ Politi. Seems to have a two-pitch mix that could generally play as an MLB reliever but has been pretty terrible as a starter this year. Would wonder given how stacked that rotation is if he transitions to the bullpen at some point. The flip side of the coin is Chris Murphy. If he doesn't fix the command/homer issues he's probably a reliever at the MLB level, but it's pretty hard to justify the transition when he's pitching as well as he has been. I don't necessarily have a good answer to this question overall, but I do recall some instances of the Sox trying guys as starters for pretty long time. Papelbon's first appearance was a start for instance. Had a couple of starts in fact. edit: Crap, beaten to the punch on the Papelbon reference. Well, they also started Andrew Miller for a good bit of time and Darwinzon Hernandez was probably a starter for longer than some people thought was reasonable? Idk. I remember his first start being the game we wondered if Manny would be traded at the deadline, He wasn't and pinch hit late in the game after the deadline passed getting a game winning hit with Orsillo's memorable "Manny's back and he's back big!" |
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 30, 2021 17:11:42 GMT -5
My memory is that he didn't make the rotation one year, then he fell into the closer role after they gave up on Foulke after like one game and then they didn't want to mess with him after he was a stud in the role. He had a shoulder subluxation in late 2006. The next year they were thinking about working him out as a starter but he basically told them he'd prefer to close, IIRC, so they scrapped the ide |
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 30, 2021 17:13:13 GMT -5
I have a question about the development list. Rio Gomez and Jake Thompson were pitching very poorly and were put on the development list and after they returned, they have been pitching very well. Alan Marrero was just added to the list and I assume he will be hitting great. A.J. Politi looks like a good candidate for the list. What I would like to know is what do they do with the players that changes them so dramatically? The development list is basically this year’s phantom IL. To my knowledge, the teams don’t do anything special with the players on the DEV list. It’s basically roster manipulation. Ah yes..The phantom IL..What would we do without it. |
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 30, 2021 17:33:24 GMT -5
I thought Papelbon had some issue with his shoulder that made starting risky. Am I making that up? I think so but I do recall that he didn't want to be a reliever at first then decided he liked closing. He sure had that closer's confidence. For a while there, he was pretty convinced that he was going to overtake Mariano as the best closer ever...
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Post by homerdante on Aug 30, 2021 18:00:56 GMT -5
My memory is that he didn't make the rotation one year, then he fell into the closer role after they gave up on Foulke after like one game and then they didn't want to mess with him after he was a stud in the role. He had a shoulder subluxation in late 2006. The next year they were thinking about working him out as a starter but he basically told them he'd prefer to close, IIRC, so they scrapped the idea. Exactly, Chris. I remember there being a lot of discussion about how the cadence of pitching in one role vs. the other role impacted his shoulder condition, so rather than trying to push more volume in a single day per 5 days, less pitch volume spread out over more days worked better for his shoulder condition, so they decided that was the way he should be slotted moving forward due to his shoulder condition. |
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