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Post by vokuhila on Sept 5, 2021 16:42:50 GMT -5
Jeez that Mookie trade talk will leak to the MiLB game threads now? Seriously, it's exhausting! Every game day thread was pretty salty today...guess people were on Casas-bomb-withdrawl
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Post by incandenza on Sept 5, 2021 16:46:47 GMT -5
Yeah you keep defending that mookie deal lol You know, there's a strong argument that they shouldn't have traded Mookie simply because he was a franchise cornerstone; a generational talent; at the center of the team's identity; thrillingly entertaining; beloved of fans; in short, *you just don't trade Mookie Betts*. I have a lot of sympathy for that argument.
But one year of Mookie @ $20 million for 5 years of Verdugo cost-controlled, plus Downs and Wong on top of that... I don't think you can argue that was a bad trade, in a bloodless dollars-and-WAR sense. I didn't really think anyone still did.
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Post by soxfan511 on Sept 5, 2021 16:57:52 GMT -5
What was the highest ranking verdugo received on MLB and BA prospects list? Also not a great attempt at a point but 29 on MLB and I believe 19 on prospectus. Thank You
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,518
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Post by radiohix on Sept 5, 2021 17:20:42 GMT -5
Yorke leads off with an 8 pitchs walk. He's been more patient since he reached Greenville. I still like his selective aggressiveness when in Salem more.
| Low-A | Adv. A | Pitchs/PA | 3.928 | 4.733 |
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Post by Addam603 on Sept 5, 2021 18:39:04 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Sept 5, 2021 18:55:45 GMT -5
Yeah you keep defending that mookie deal lol You know, there's a strong argument that they shouldn't have traded Mookie simply because he was a franchise cornerstone; a generational talent; at the center of the team's identity; thrillingly entertaining; beloved of fans; in short, *you just don't trade Mookie Betts*. I have a lot of sympathy for that argument.
But one year of Mookie @ $20 million for 5 years of Verdugo cost-controlled, plus Downs and Wong on top of that... I don't think you can argue that was a bad trade, in a bloodless dollars-and-WAR sense. I didn't really think anyone still did.
I want to stay out except to say two things: 1) my memory is there was *no* single centerpiece. The idea was a always a package that combined a replacement and prospects. So no single player is the hinge. 2) $:WAR ratio is very deceptive. I mean, take a guy like Manny Margot. Guy is making $3.4 mill and is at 2.5 bWAR. That’s like $16 million in excess value, right? Xander is at 4.1 bWAR for $20 million… so a smidge over $12 million excess value. But would you come out ahead if you had Margot instead of Xander? Cheaper players simply have an easier time producing better ratios. But I’d still rather have a slightly overpaid, say, Trout, than an underpaid, whatever… say Margot. I mean, trading down for better ratios would be pretty easy, actually.
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Post by sittingstill on Sept 5, 2021 19:24:05 GMT -5
I really hope this doesn't carry over to the Field of Dreams game next Sunday.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 5, 2021 19:49:20 GMT -5
You know, there's a strong argument that they shouldn't have traded Mookie simply because he was a franchise cornerstone; a generational talent; at the center of the team's identity; thrillingly entertaining; beloved of fans; in short, *you just don't trade Mookie Betts*. I have a lot of sympathy for that argument.
But one year of Mookie @ $20 million for 5 years of Verdugo cost-controlled, plus Downs and Wong on top of that... I don't think you can argue that was a bad trade, in a bloodless dollars-and-WAR sense. I didn't really think anyone still did.
I want to stay out except to say two things: 1) my memory is there was *no* single centerpiece. The idea was a always a package that combined a replacement and prospects. So no single player is the hinge. 2) $:WAR ratio is very deceptive. I mean, take a guy like Manny Margot. Guy is making $3.4 mill and is at 2.5 bWAR. Thatâs like $16 million in excess value, right? Xander is at 4.1 bWAR for $20 million⦠so a smidge over $12 million excess value. But would you come out ahead if you had Margot instead of Xander? Cheaper players simply have an easier time producing better ratios. But Iâd still rather have a slightly overpaid, say, Trout, than an underpaid, whatever⦠say Margot. I mean, trading down for better ratios would be pretty easy, actually. Kiké has almost the same war as mookie for far far less money. In fact, when compared to the overpriced dodgers OF the red sox have better production for far less money.
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Post by jaffinator on Sept 5, 2021 19:53:12 GMT -5
You know, there's a strong argument that they shouldn't have traded Mookie simply because he was a franchise cornerstone; a generational talent; at the center of the team's identity; thrillingly entertaining; beloved of fans; in short, *you just don't trade Mookie Betts*. I have a lot of sympathy for that argument.
But one year of Mookie @ $20 million for 5 years of Verdugo cost-controlled, plus Downs and Wong on top of that... I don't think you can argue that was a bad trade, in a bloodless dollars-and-WAR sense. I didn't really think anyone still did.
I want to stay out except to say two things: 1) my memory is there was *no* single centerpiece. The idea was a always a package that combined a replacement and prospects. So no single player is the hinge. 2) $:WAR ratio is very deceptive. I mean, take a guy like Manny Margot. Guy is making $3.4 mill and is at 2.5 bWAR. That’s like $16 million in excess value, right? Xander is at 4.1 bWAR for $20 million… so a smidge over $12 million excess value. But would you come out ahead if you had Margot instead of Xander? Cheaper players simply have an easier time producing better ratios. But I’d still rather have a slightly overpaid, say, Trout, than an underpaid, whatever… say Margot. I mean, trading down for better ratios would be pretty easy, actually. Ultimately, given the finite number of opportunities it makes no sense to assume a linear relationship between dollars and war when evaluating a single player (I would argue that things are different when evaluating groups of players, like an entire team). That being said, the above comment doesn't mention $/WAR ratio or really get to the same point. I interpreted it as being more about the length of contract - it's better to have a very good player or two for five years than it is to have a superlative one for one (oh and also you can use the difference in salary to pay some other people). I would also point out that it is much easier to re-sign players than it is to wait and sign them on the true open market, but in general I am pretty sympathetic to incandenza's larger point. But the largest point of them all is - can we please stop talking about this!?!?! This is the most exciting the Sox farm system has been in quite some time, plus there is no shortage of drama with the big league squad! There are so many new things to be rude to complete strangers over!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 5, 2021 20:01:58 GMT -5
You know, there's a strong argument that they shouldn't have traded Mookie simply because he was a franchise cornerstone; a generational talent; at the center of the team's identity; thrillingly entertaining; beloved of fans; in short, *you just don't trade Mookie Betts*. I have a lot of sympathy for that argument. But one year of Mookie @ $20 million for 5 years of Verdugo cost-controlled, plus Downs and Wong on top of that... I don't think you can argue that was a bad trade, in a bloodless dollars-and-WAR sense. I didn't really think anyone still did.
I want to stay out except to say two things: 1) my memory is there was *no* single centerpiece. The idea was a always a package that combined a replacement and prospects. So no single player is the hinge. 2) $:WAR ratio is very deceptive. I mean, take a guy like Manny Margot. Guy is making $3.4 mill and is at 2.5 bWAR. That’s like $16 million in excess value, right? Xander is at 4.1 bWAR for $20 million… so a smidge over $12 million excess value. But would you come out ahead if you had Margot instead of Xander? Cheaper players simply have an easier time producing better ratios. But I’d still rather have a slightly overpaid, say, Trout, than an underpaid, whatever… say Margot. I mean, trading down for better ratios would be pretty easy, actually. Actually Verdugo was the primary guy and always was. It wasn't hard to figure out that the Sox were going to want a young outfielder with a big upside who had plenty of years of control and then you look around as to which teams could afford Mookie and had the farm system it was either LA Dodgers or SD. Even I looked at it and figured out that Verdugo would be the guy they target in a trade. When Graterol's medicals made it obvious he couldn't start the Sox never considered backing out of the deal. That's because they felt Verdugo was by far their best option, a prospect who had come to the majors and had succeeded in his rookie year. Soon afterwards the Dodgers and Sox agreed to swap Downs and Wong into the deal instead. I wish that Gray had been an option, but the Dodgers probably felt they had Lux and Ruiz and Cartagena so they could part with legit prospects Downs and Wong. But Verdugo was always the get and he is what the Sox expected him to be and he still has room to grow. Hopefully he's a table setter with pop and defense for Casas in a couple of years as this is about Casas. One other thing. Don't like the Cobra nickname. That's Dave Parker's nickname. I guess it can be done. Pudge Fisk. Pudge Rodriguez. But I prefer originality.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 5, 2021 20:14:04 GMT -5
Jfc cut it out with the Betts trade nonsense
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Post by manfred on Sept 5, 2021 20:14:58 GMT -5
Second the Cobra thing. Good for game day threads, but permanent nickname should still be pending.
Though I imagine there are people googling “Dave Parker.”
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 5, 2021 20:21:21 GMT -5
Second the Cobra thing. Good for game day threads, but permanent nickname should still be pending. Though I imagine there are people googling “Dave Parker.” How about Crusher Casas? He crushed the baseball five times recently.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,002
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Post by jimoh on Sept 5, 2021 20:41:00 GMT -5
Jeez that Mookie trade talk will leak to the MiLB game threads now? Seriously, it's exhausting! aaaaarggh, it's not even about the deal. it's about who was "the focal point" in the deal! the perfect silly topic for meaningless babble!
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Post by ramireja on Sept 5, 2021 21:27:58 GMT -5
Wikelman: 5IP 2H 2R (0ER) 2BB 5K
HRs for Decker (8), Northcut (12), and Dearden (19) between the Salem and Greenville games.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,637
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Post by cdj on Sept 5, 2021 21:58:46 GMT -5
Feltman with another 2 scoreless
Interesting to see him getting multiple innings per outing. Happened last time out too
He’s been pretty damn good since I threw a 6th inning ceiling on him lol
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Post by manfred on Sept 5, 2021 22:25:07 GMT -5
Feltman with another 2 scoreless Interesting to see him getting multiple innings per outing. Happened last time out too He’s been pretty damn good since I threw a 6th inning ceiling on him lol Have there been reports on velocity etc.? It seemed like he’d lost some… is it back?
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Sept 6, 2021 1:15:51 GMT -5
Hart pitched a good game
Sox called up the wrong starter
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Post by vokuhila on Sept 6, 2021 3:03:36 GMT -5
The 43-61 AAA Rochester Red Wings are not the 68-66 MLB Cleveland Indians...apples and oranges
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