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Patriots 2021 season thread
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Post by jmei on Nov 14, 2021 17:22:37 GMT -5
Couple random thoughts.
Josh McDaniels is still a really good coach. They killed them with reverses, screens and draws that took advantage of the aggressiveness of their defensive line, which in turn slowed down the pass rush.
The secondary continues to excel despite the loss of Gilmore and Jones. They had at least two or three interception chances that they didn't convert and blanketed a pretty good skill position team all day.
Everyone was predictably excited for Meyers' first touchdown, but it was notable how excited the team was when Harry hauled in that deep throw from Hoyer midway through the fourth. The entire WR room came over to congratulate him. Bourne also specifically called out Harry's blocking on the reverses he had in his post-game interview. Know it's easy to be a good teammate when you're blowing the other team out, but the good vibes despite Harry's trade demand earlier this room is a positive indicator for the kind of locker room culture that they have.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Nov 14, 2021 18:07:26 GMT -5
Good old school "beat down the guys who think they are coming for the throne" win. Starting to really be excited for Mac, especially in light of the other rookies' struggles.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 14, 2021 20:35:21 GMT -5
That was really, really sexy
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 14, 2021 20:37:28 GMT -5
It’s always impressive watching how quickly the Pats coaching staff makes adjustments in-game. It’s equally impressive that they can’t stop an opening drive but it’s so normal now that if doesn’t scare me and everything scares me. Starting to remind me of a boxer who doesn’t throw a ton in the first round or two because they’re busy making reads. Kinda like Floyd. They figure out what you want to do and then they slowly start to take it away from you |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 14, 2021 21:31:43 GMT -5
Who was Tom Brady again? Looks like we have ourselves a quarterback, folks!
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Nov 15, 2021 5:37:17 GMT -5
Hot take: Nick Caserio was the problem with drafting and Dave Ziegler is turning it around.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 15, 2021 7:05:48 GMT -5
It’s equally impressive that they can’t stop an opening drive but it’s so normal now that if doesn’t scare me and everything scares me. Starting to remind me of a boxer who doesn’t throw a ton in the first round or two because they’re busy making reads. Kinda like Floyd. They figure out what you want to do and then they slowly start to take it away from you The weird thing about yesterday was Cleveland decided to not run the ball anymore. Second drive they ran for 3 yards then pass pass… Next drive: pass - pass (1st down) - run - pass - pass. Next one: pass- run - pass Now they bottled up those 3 runs but after that first drive, you’d think they would have gone about it differently. Mayfield just isn’t that good. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 15, 2021 7:08:50 GMT -5
To expand on my Mayfield point… the NFL is in a weird spot with QB salaries. You have all these guys who aren’t that good making massive salaries. Mayfield is about to be added to the Cousins, Carr, Jimmy G and Goffs of the world. It’s hard enough to build a team around a guy like Wilson, who’s actually good making big money.
The NFL has a problem - it will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 15, 2021 9:07:13 GMT -5
It’s always impressive watching how quickly the Pats coaching staff makes adjustments in-game. It’s equally impressive that they can’t stop an opening drive but it’s so normal now that if doesn’t scare me and everything scares me. A friend I was watching the game with and I were discussing the same thing after Cleveland drove and scored on that first drive. It happens to start many games and then they make adjustments. It is frustrating but we both knew it didn't mean much and the Pats would tighten things up. And to jump on jmei's point. Winning is fun and that brings teams together. Starting out losing but continuing to work hard and having it payoff by winning games on a team coached by BB and led by the history of the Pats over the past 20 yrs is awesome. The way they celebrated Myers TD and the way they have stuck together really bodes well for them riding this wave to who knows where. It has taken time but the Oline has come around so they can run the ball and keep Mac clean in the pocket. That along with some great D and coaching is what we expected all along and it is coming to fruition. Watch out Buffalo the Pats are back. Once again how great is it the Pats lucked into their QB of the future at #15 without having to give up any extra picks and only going 1 season without a franchise QB. The rest of the NFL is just shaking their collective heads and saying bad words under their breathe. And BB is doing one of his most masterful jobs of GM/coaching among a lot of great years of doing it. Funny but after TB made it look like it was more him than BB last year, with the people who like to debate that, BB is now making a bit of a statement himself. Atlanta on a short week should be another relative blow out. The Pats are rolling and they are not, I think that hurts a teams chances of getting things turned around in a short week. And Atlanta is just not very good. Time to make some money. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 15, 2021 9:17:12 GMT -5
To expand on my Mayfield point… the NFL is in a weird spot with QB salaries. You have all these guys who aren’t that good making massive salaries. Mayfield is about to be added to the Cousins, Carr, Jimmy G and Goffs of the world. It’s hard enough to build a team around a guy like Wilson, who’s actually good making big money. The NFL has a problem - it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Totally 100% agree. What do the Jets do with their QB situation now? 15 to 20% of a teams budget when their are 52 other players to fit in that budget isn't going to work unless you have a truly great QB. And even that isn't a great position to be in. As great as Mahomes is his contract is going to make life really hard on the Chiefs at some point, they can get out from under it in 2025 but 45m is just too much IMO. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 15, 2021 9:29:07 GMT -5
Couple random thoughts. Josh McDaniels is still a really good coach. They killed them with reverses, screens and draws that took advantage of the aggressiveness of their defensive line, which in turn slowed down the pass rush. The secondary continues to excel despite the loss of Gilmore and Jones. They had at least two or three interception chances that they didn't convert and blanketed a pretty good skill position team all day. Everyone was predictably excited for Meyers' first touchdown, but it was notable how excited the team was when Harry hauled in that deep throw from Hoyer midway through the fourth. The entire WR room came over to congratulate him. Bourne also specifically called out Harry's blocking on the reverses he had in his post-game interview. Know it's easy to be a good teammate when you're blowing the other team out, but the good vibes despite Harry's trade demand earlier this room is a positive indicator for the kind of locker room culture that they have. Harry made some great blocks in the game also, once totally blowing up Myles Garrett!! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 15, 2021 10:18:46 GMT -5
I actually really like Mayfield, he's really banged up and the huge difference is coaching. Myles Garrett said it best, they didn't adjust at all. Going into that game I thought the talent level was fairly similar and even after a beat down I feel the same way. We just have great coaching. Our offense and defense can adjust while playing a bunch of different ways.
Everyone is praising the OL, yet a huge part of it was the play calling. They used screens, reverses and those beautiful outside toss runs to take advantage of the pass rush. Basically everything they weren’t doing to start the year.
I feel bad for JJ Taylor, why do they repeatedly try and use him inside like he's Stevenson or Harris? They do such a great job with Bolden getting him in space, that's what you do with Taylor.
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,046
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Post by mobaz on Nov 15, 2021 11:20:14 GMT -5
Once again how great is it the Pats lucked into their QB of the future at #15 without having to give up any extra picks and only going 1 season without a franchise QB. The rest of the NFL is just shaking their collective heads and saying bad words under their breathe. And BB is doing one of his most masterful jobs of GM/coaching among a lot of great years of doing it. Funny but after TB made it look like it was more him than BB last year, with the people who like to debate that, BB is now making a bit of a statement himself. Jeff Howe did an analysis before the draft about how rare it is to get a successful QB after pick 12, and how hard it is to get a QB without tanking or moving up. To have Mac FALL to you is nuts. The balls on BB and crew to wait it out with (as I outlined back in the offseason thread) 20 out of 32 teams in QB flux before FA started... And if they hadn't, this years' QB crop is in tatters. So excited Kyle Shanahan got peer pressured away from taking him at 3! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 15, 2021 11:36:51 GMT -5
Once again how great is it the Pats lucked into their QB of the future at #15 without having to give up any extra picks and only going 1 season without a franchise QB. The rest of the NFL is just shaking their collective heads and saying bad words under their breathe. And BB is doing one of his most masterful jobs of GM/coaching among a lot of great years of doing it. Funny but after TB made it look like it was more him than BB last year, with the people who like to debate that, BB is now making a bit of a statement himself. Jeff Howe did an analysis before the draft about how rare it is to get a successful QB after pick 12, and how hard it is to get a QB without tanking or moving up. To have Mac FALL to you is nuts. The balls on BB and crew to wait it out with (as I outlined back in the offseason thread) 20 out of 32 teams in QB flux before FA started... And if they hadn't, this years' QB crop is in tatters. So excited Kyle Shanahan got peer pressured away from taking him at 3! Seven of the top 15 leaders in passing yards fits that description. Sure it's a numbers game, so many bad QBs to good ones after top 12, yet they are still there. Seven more in the bottom 15 fit that description, that's 14 out of the top 30 passing leaders this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 15, 2021 11:58:46 GMT -5
I actually really like Mayfield, he's really banged up and the huge difference is coaching. Myles Garrett said it best, they didn't adjust at all. Going into that game I thought the talent level was fairly similar and even after a beat down I feel the same way. We just have great coaching. Our offense and defense can adjust while playing a bunch of different ways. Everyone is praising the OL, yet a huge part of it was the play calling. They used screens, reverses and those beautiful outside toss runs to take advantage of the pass rush. Basically everything they weren’t doing to start the year. I feel bad for JJ Taylor, why do they repeatedly try and use him inside like he's Stevenson or Harris? They do such a great job with Bolden getting him in space, that's what you do with Taylor. If your QB needs the perfect situation around them, then they aren’t “that” good. It doesn’t mean he sucks or you can’t win with him, but it’s questionable as to whether he’s a difference maker. This is where the NFL is. There are a select few QBs that transcend talent and perfect coaching and then there are a bunch of others who are good in the right situation, but get over paid for that being the case. I wasn’t trying to suggest Mayfield sucks or can’t win, if that’s how it came across. It’s possible the Pats will be in this situation with Mac in a few years but hopefully, his brain is good enough that he can over come that stuff. One of the issues, I’ve heard, with Mayfield is he’s not very good reading defenses, when pre and post snap looks don’t align. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 15, 2021 12:40:11 GMT -5
I actually really like Mayfield, he's really banged up and the huge difference is coaching. Myles Garrett said it best, they didn't adjust at all. Going into that game I thought the talent level was fairly similar and even after a beat down I feel the same way. We just have great coaching. Our offense and defense can adjust while playing a bunch of different ways. Everyone is praising the OL, yet a huge part of it was the play calling. They used screens, reverses and those beautiful outside toss runs to take advantage of the pass rush. Basically everything they weren’t doing to start the year. I feel bad for JJ Taylor, why do they repeatedly try and use him inside like he's Stevenson or Harris? They do such a great job with Bolden getting him in space, that's what you do with Taylor. If your QB needs the perfect situation around them, then they aren’t “that” good. It doesn’t mean he sucks or you can’t win with him, but it’s questionable as to whether he’s a difference maker. This is where the NFL is. There are a select few QBs that transcend talent and perfect coaching and then there are a bunch of others who are good in the right situation, but get over paid for that being the case. I wasn’t trying to suggest Mayfield sucks or can’t win, if that’s how it came across. It’s possible the Pats will be in this situation with Mac in a few years but hopefully, his brain is good enough that he can over come that stuff. One of the issues, I’ve heard, with Mayfield is he’s not very good reading defenses, when pre and post snap looks don’t align. So was Tom Brady not that good his first years here? I'd say the perfect place for him, with crazy smart people helped him become the QB he is. It's not just get one of the few studs, it's about how you help him and develop the QB. I'd point out Bill really loved Mayfield and he'd be in a system here that helps him more. The Patriots offense and Josh McDaniels are really helping Mac Jones. It's a how too book on developing QBs the right way. Look at Sam Darnold, you saw his talent the first 4 weeks. They didn't adjust, didn't have ways to keep defenses from having to adjust and then it looks like the Jets all over again. Just look at the Bucs, Ariens offense was a horrible fit for Brady, they changed the whole thing to fit Brady. They got him Gronk, Brown and Fournette so he had the weapons he needed to play his way. Not just bombing passes to Evans. A QB being good is about the team putting a system around the QB that fits. The Goat needs the right system, almost every top QB does. Look at Patrick Mahomes, he needs the right players and system. He wouldn't look great in the Patriots offense Mac Jones is running. So I'm just confused by your take. What QBs don't need the right system around them and are still elite guys? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 15, 2021 12:51:04 GMT -5
If your QB needs the perfect situation around them, then they aren’t “that” good. It doesn’t mean he sucks or you can’t win with him, but it’s questionable as to whether he’s a difference maker. This is where the NFL is. There are a select few QBs that transcend talent and perfect coaching and then there are a bunch of others who are good in the right situation, but get over paid for that being the case. I wasn’t trying to suggest Mayfield sucks or can’t win, if that’s how it came across. It’s possible the Pats will be in this situation with Mac in a few years but hopefully, his brain is good enough that he can over come that stuff. One of the issues, I’ve heard, with Mayfield is he’s not very good reading defenses, when pre and post snap looks don’t align. So was Tom Brady not that good his first years here? I'd say the perfect place for him, with crazy smart people helped him become the QB he is. It's not just get one of the few studs, it's about how you help him and develop the QB. I'd point out Bill really loved Mayfield and he'd be in a system here that helps him more. The Patriots offense and Josh McDaniels are really helping Mac Jones. It's a how too book on developing QBs the right way. Look at Sam Darnold, you saw his talent the first 4 weeks. They didn't adjust, didn't have ways to keep defenses from having to adjust and then it looks like the Jets all over again. Just look at the Bucs, Ariens offense was a horrible fit for Brady, they changed the whole thing to fit Brady. They got him Gronk, Brown and Fournette so he had the weapons he needed to play his way. Not just bombing passes to Evans. A QB being good is about the team putting a system around the QB that fits. The Goat needs the right system, almost every top QB does. Look at Patrick Mahomes, he needs the right players and system. He wouldn't look great in the Patriots offense Mac Jones is running. So I'm just confused by your take. What QBs don't need the right system around them and are still elite guys? I’m going to bow out of this conversation, I know where it’s going to go and it’s not worth the energy trying to explain the nuances here then getting bogged down. I understand your point of view and i don’t entirely disagree with it but i don’t entirely agree with it either and we can leave it there. Mayfield is a good not great QB. I would worry about paying him a huge contract. |
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 15, 2021 14:58:54 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 15, 2021 16:19:30 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 15, 2021 16:37:28 GMT -5
I never bought that weight they had listed and I heard thrown around. His combine wt was listed at 229 or so and their is no way a RB puts that much wt on between the combine and the season unless they got fat, not happening. I wonder why they ballooned it. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 15, 2021 17:07:30 GMT -5
Dan is one of, if not the best analyst out there right now:
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 15, 2021 20:02:53 GMT -5
Dan is one of, if not the best analyst out there right now: Completely agree, he’s fantastic and actually backs it up |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2021 7:14:43 GMT -5
One of the more interesting things about Sundays game was that when Brown returned, Onwenu went to the bench rather than back to left guard. You could say it was to limit Browns snaps and not move Onwenu back and forth, but then it’s sort of interesting that Brown got the majority of the work versus rotating in.
Onwenu struggled a bit at left guard and Karras has been solid there so I’m sure that has a lot to do with it. Conversely, he’s been really good at right tackle, but Brown was great there too. It’s too bad Onwenu isn’t great at left guard too as that would creat a beast of a line. Maybe there’s time with reps at practice to get there.
Also, since a shit on him, it’s only fair to point out when he has a good game. Wynn had a very good game. Yes, he missed a block that got Mac sacked but it’s Miles freakin Garrett. He’s Miles Garrett for a reason, you’ll miss a block now and then against him no matter how good you are. Also, had a HUGE penalty called on him, but that flag was bull so it’s not his fault. If he can play like that consistently then it’s awesome. Let’s go big fella finish the season strong.
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Post by costpet on Nov 16, 2021 8:44:16 GMT -5
In case you've forgotten, in the 2021 draft Chicago traded their 1st and 5th round choices and their 2022 1st and 4th round choices to the Giants in order to draft a QB. So, they jumped the Pats, who were sitting at 15. They used that choice to draft Justin Fields. We were stuck with Mac Jones, who cost us nothing.
I do wonder if Chicago had not made that trade and the Pats had a choice, who would they have picked? Was it astute thinking or just dumb luck?
Brady in the 6th was the latter.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2021 9:41:53 GMT -5
In case you've forgotten, in the 2021 draft Chicago traded their 1st and 5th round choices and their 2022 1st and 4th round choices to the Giants in order to draft a QB. So, they jumped the Pats, who were sitting at 15. They used that choice to draft Justin Fields. We were stuck with Mac Jones, who cost us nothing. I do wonder if Chicago had not made that trade and the Pats had a choice, who would they have picked? Was it astute thinking or just dumb luck? Brady in the 6th was the latter. I really get annoyed (not picking on your cospet), about saying drafting a guy is dumb luck… when isn’t it luck? Only when you execute a trade up? But then is that luck because there was a team that wanted to trade back instead of taking the same guy? It’s lucky because no one else took him? Well then doesn’t that just make you better because you did? I get why people do it, but i feel like it’s just become way overused. Why are we discounting a teams execution? All that really matters is what happened and it seems like they nailed the draft. From not trading up for Mac or another QB to “overpaying” to trade up for Barmore to taking a running back they “didn’t need” in Stevenson. |
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