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Patriots 2021 season thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 4, 2021 10:11:58 GMT -5
The Bills have a lot of weapons, that scares the heck out of me. Eh, their skill position guys outside of Diggs don’t impress me too much. It's the collection of Diggs, Sanders, Beasley, Knox and Davis. All have 312 or more yards. They have 7, 4, 1, 7 and 2 TDs. It reminds me of our group of weapons, yet they have an elite Diggs. Add in a couple of good RBs that can catch the ball and run. There's a reason they are 2nd in points scored, 7th in passing yards and 3 in TDs. That depth against Bryant, Williams and Wade, the biggest current weak link in our D. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 4, 2021 10:39:31 GMT -5
I’ve always felt Beasley is really good. He’s a fine slot receiver, but is he really meaningfully better than, say, Meyers now or the Amendola from a few years ago? I don’t know how to define “meaningfully better” and probably not worth getting bogged down with it so I’ll just say, I think he’s better than Meyers and I think Amendola was very good. His issues were injuries and he played behind Edelman, but Amendola was an important part of making the offense so dangerous, which i think is the point UMASS is trying to make. When you have a star like Diggs then simply having good to very good secondary pieces 3-4 deep makes matching up really hard. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 4, 2021 11:54:32 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 4, 2021 15:21:59 GMT -5
They really are one playmaker away from having a dynamic offense
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Post by philarhody on Dec 5, 2021 12:40:22 GMT -5
Mac Jones has been much better than Tom Brady was as a first year starter.
The question with Mac is going to be, how much can be added to the physical profile. Whereas Brady continually worked on his foot speed and release quickness, Mac is going to need to add power to his frame to torque up the rpm’s. There is no doubt in my mind that Mac is going to be a top 10 quarterback in this league for a long time. The question will be, can he be an all timer?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 5, 2021 14:07:59 GMT -5
Mac Jones also has more weapons and a system two decades old built around a QB like him. I don't remember Brady having a crazy deep WR, TE and RB pool before 2008. They were building that in Brady’s early years and Josh McDaniels has perfected it. Bill also went out of his way to add weapons, not elite guys, yet just a ton of really good ones.
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Post by philarhody on Dec 5, 2021 14:43:20 GMT -5
Mac Jones also has more weapons and a system two decades old built around a QB like him. I don't remember Brady having a crazy deep WR, TE and RB pool before 2008. They were building that in Brady’s early years and Josh McDaniels has perfected it. Bill also went out of his way to add weapons, not elite guys, yet just a ton of really good ones. Yeah. Jones is still better as a rookie. |
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Dec 5, 2021 21:31:38 GMT -5
1 seed - please beat Buffalo
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costpet
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Post by costpet on Dec 6, 2021 8:11:59 GMT -5
Sounds like the weather will be the star tonight. Brady loved the bad weather. It gave him a huge advantage. Probably a good learning experience for Jones. If it's a run only game, we have an advantage. Attempted field goals should be fun to watch.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2021 8:27:48 GMT -5
It would be great if the Pats could draft a #1 WR that would team with Mac from early on to create that type of dynamic combination but I doubt BB would pull the trigger on that pick. Past failures and other positions that are aging quickly would seem like 2 reasons for going in another direction. I also think that it is really hard to know if a WR would be able to master the Pats offensive scheme, many have tried and failed. On the flip side the draft does look strong at WR in the position the Pats will be drafting at so who knows. Id they had only taken Metcalf instead of Harry....
The most important thing is the Pats hit on Mac and as someone else mentioned he looks easily like a top 10 QB with the potential to be much better. In fact I would say based on what I have seen he will very likely only get better. He will work on that body and continue to improve, just like the last guy did.
Tonight is going to be a great test.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2021 8:34:31 GMT -5
Sounds like the weather will be the star tonight. Brady loved the bad weather. It gave him a huge advantage. Probably a good learning experience for Jones. If it's a run only game, we have an advantage. Attempted field goals should be fun to watch. I remember a game many years ago in Chicago that the forecast was the same, windy, rainey bad and everyone expected the same. A run game only. Then Brady came out and threw the ball all over the place and the Pats put up like 40 points. Maybe it has more to do with the Pats short passing game and the offensive players knowing where they are going and the D can't react quickly enough to stay close with the slippery conditions. We shall see but I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats rolled out that kind of game plan and surprised the Bills with a spread offense. We all know how Bill likes to change things up to keep the opponent off balance. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2021 8:44:41 GMT -5
Comparing Macs first year to Bradys doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. They might as well of played in different leagues. The rules were different, which affected how you play both offense and defense. The technology was way different which affects how you can study and affects the complexity of both offense and defense.
It’s why Carson Palmer is ahead of Montana in fewer season in passing yards and why Stafford will finish his career ahead of Marino and why Marino’s once vaunted record is already down to 7th all time.
Goff is top 20 all-time in passer rating. 18 of the top 25 started their careers in 2004 or later.
These are the Payton Manning rules - Belichick literally changed the game with his style of play during those first championship teams.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2021 9:29:27 GMT -5
Comparing Macs first year to Bradys doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. They might as well of played in different leagues. The rules were different, which affected how you play both offense and defense. The technology was way different which affects how you can study and affects the complexity of both offense and defense. It’s why Carson Palmer is ahead of Montana in fewer season in passing yards and why Stafford will finish his career ahead of Marino and why Marino’s once vaunted record is already down to 7th all time. Goff is top 20 all-time in passer rating. 18 of the top 25 started their careers in 2004 or later. These are the Payton Manning rules - Belichick literally changed the game with his style of play during those first championship teams. Coinciding with the changes you describe with the rules and the game is that the Pats went from grass to artificial turf in November 2006. I remember when that happened and thinking at the time that the Pats would change their style of O to being more wide open rather than the grind it out style BB had always been known for. Now here we are 15 yrs later and the whole league has gone to smaller faster defenses to combat the passing so BB builds a team that is bigger and harder to play against in the old grind it out style. And on defense how many teams have starting LBs that weigh in at 255+ these days? Not many. RJP those were some great points on just how much things have changed over the last 20 years and how they affect QB stats. Dan Marino would have put up some serious numbers in todays game. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2021 10:08:54 GMT -5
Bill didn’t change the game in those early years, the Rams did. We didn't join the party to 2008. Do people not remember those early years? We'd run the ball for three straight downs and punt multiple times per game.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2021 11:14:44 GMT -5
Bill didn’t change the game in those early years, the Rams did. We didn't join the party to 2008. Do people not remember those early years? We'd run the ball for three straight downs and punt multiple times per game. Maybe my point got lost. The league changed the rules when the Rams then the Colts were complaining about how they couldn’t beat Bills defense. It was too physical. So no Bill didn’t make the changes himself they were made to counter act him and promote fantasy football. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2021 11:22:24 GMT -5
Bill didn’t change the game in those early years, the Rams did. We didn't join the party to 2008. Do people not remember those early years? We'd run the ball for three straight downs and punt multiple times per game. Of course I remember the early years, who could forget the beginning of the dynasty and 3 SBs in 4 yrs. Not only the early BB years but the mid 70's was my early years and they actually had some good teams with Hannah and Grey leading the way. They still hold the NFL record for most rushing yards gained in a season with 3100 in 78. BTW it was directly after the turf change in 2006, 2007 is the season that they joined the party when they traded for Welker and Moss and Brady threw for 4,800 yds and 50 tds. It would be a game changer if they could get anyone close to a Randy Moss for Mac to have as a #1. On another note. One thing I hear a lot from the pundits these days on Mac is sure he has done a great job but have we seen him lead the Pats to a win when coming from behind, does he have what it takes to win with his arm. My thought on that is this. One of the few opportunities that he has had to run the 2 minute drill was at the end of a half, I can't remember the game, but he padded his stats for the game by going something like 7 for 7. Doesn't it make sense that a guy who is really accurate will carve up a D that is playing off a little bit like they do when ahead late. Teams give up the underneath stuff to protect the big play over the top. It is frustrating to watch sometimes as it seems like D's just let teams drive down the field. Point is I think Mac will absolutely carve defenses up when the time comes to prove he can lead the team down the stretch, we should find out soon. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2021 12:30:39 GMT -5
Bill didn’t change the game in those early years, the Rams did. We didn't join the party to 2008. Do people not remember those early years? We'd run the ball for three straight downs and punt multiple times per game. Maybe my point got lost. The league changed the rules when the Rams then the Colts were complaining about how they couldn’t beat Bills defense. It was too physical. So no Bill didn’t make the changes himself they were made to counter act him and promote fantasy football. They picked offense over D, just like the NBA. A lot of what we did to the Rams you can still do, I remember them just jamming every receiver and it killed their timing. Losing teams usually complain about something as the reason they lost. You want to give him some credit, go for it, yet there was a lot more to it. Like what fans wanted to see and fantasy was a huge part of if. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2021 12:44:41 GMT -5
Bill didn’t change the game in those early years, the Rams did. We didn't join the party to 2008. Do people not remember those early years? We'd run the ball for three straight downs and punt multiple times per game. Of course I remember the early years, who could forget the beginning of the dynasty and 3 SBs in 4 yrs. Not only the early BB years but the mid 70's was my early years and they actually had some good teams with Hannah and Grey leading the way. They still hold the NFL record for most rushing yards gained in a season with 3100 in 78. BTW it was directly after the turf change in 2006, 2007 is the season that they joined the party when they traded for Welker and Moss and Brady threw for 4,800 yds and 50 tds. It would be a game changer if they could get anyone close to a Randy Moss for Mac to have as a #1. On another note. One thing I hear a lot from the pundits these days on Mac is sure he has done a great job but have we seen him lead the Pats to a win when coming from behind, does he have what it takes to win with his arm. My thought on that is this. One of the few opportunities that he has had to run the 2 minute drill was at the end of a half, I can't remember the game, but he padded his stats for the game by going something like 7 for 7. Doesn't it make sense that a guy who is really accurate will carve up a D that is playing off a little bit like they do when ahead late. Teams give up the underneath stuff to protect the big play over the top. It is frustrating to watch sometimes as it seems like D's just let teams drive down the field. Point is I think Mac will absolutely carve defenses up when the time comes to prove he can lead the team down the stretch, we should find out soon. Haha I was born in 1982, my early years are drafting WM and Bledsoe. Getting maybe my favorite RB of all time in Curtis Martin and letting him leave for the Jets. Yet overall its been as good of a 30 year stretch as you can get. I believe in Mac Jones, he's going to be darn good. Yet let's see how me handles elite teams in the playoffs. So far it's been blitz him like crazy, that didn't work. Then take away the running game and dare him to beat you, that didn't work. Let's see what happens when they try to take the passing game away. That Bucs defense, yet at full strength without a guy starting who they just signed off the street. |
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 6, 2021 12:58:25 GMT -5
Maybe my point got lost. The league changed the rules when the Rams then the Colts were complaining about how they couldn’t beat Bills defense. It was too physical. So no Bill didn’t make the changes himself they were made to counter act him and promote fantasy football. If I remember correctly it was a couple months after the Colts lost the AFCCG. I'm not sure it was an official rule change, as much as a renewed emphasis of eliminating contact past five yards and becoming stricter with pass interference calls. Bill Polian was on the competition committee and was said to be a major influence in making this a point of emphasis, it was informally known as the Ty Law rule. Belichick bashed it at the time, commenting how subjective interference calls would become, and here we are now. Funny enough, the next year the Colts did even worse in their postseason loss to the Pats despite them missing Law, their #2 corner, and Seymour. Those Colts teams were SOFT. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2021 13:54:01 GMT -5
Maybe my point got lost. The league changed the rules when the Rams then the Colts were complaining about how they couldn’t beat Bills defense. It was too physical. So no Bill didn’t make the changes himself they were made to counter act him and promote fantasy football. If I remember correctly it was a couple months after the Colts lost the AFCCG. I'm not sure it was an official rule change, as much as a renewed emphasis of eliminating contact past five yards and becoming stricter with pass interference calls. Bill Polian was on the competition committee and was said to be a major influence in making this a point of emphasis, it was informally known as the Ty Law rule. Belichick bashed it at the time, commenting how subjective interference calls would become, and here we are now. Funny enough, the next year the Colts did even worse in their postseason loss to the Pats despite them missing Law, their #2 corner, and Seymour. Those Colts teams were SOFT. I remember some of those same things you mention especially Polian being on the rules committee. One more thing I read this week that I don't think has been mentioned here, I think it was Bourne saying this. The slow start at the beginning of the season was also because Mac didn't get many snaps as the #1 and with the first O. Cam got all the snaps until a week before the season per Bourne so Mac didn't have much time to gel with the top WRs. It makes sense and makes the production from Mac even more impressive. I wish it was 8 o'clock already. Umass I graduated High school in 1982. Yes you have had a great 30 yrs of being a Pats fan but I have to say 25 yrs of futility watching the Pats makes the past 20 that much sweeter. During my life time I watched the 49ers have the longest tenure of greatness and I was beyond envious. For the Pats to have blown those records away is incredible for me. I was on vacation in Cabo San Lucas after they won their 1st SB in 2002 and everyone loved the Pats and the fans, now after 20 yrs we are about the most hated out there, oh well thats what comes with being on top for so long. And now with Mac and winning again so quickly, it is almost unfair to the fans of the AFC East. A win tonight and a sweep of the Bills this season should be considered abuse. |
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Dec 6, 2021 14:45:16 GMT -5
Went to school in Buffalo (graduated in 2020) and went to every Pats V. Bills game while at school. That crowd truly is something else - they hate the Patriots with a burning passion and ARE NOT afraid to show it 😂
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2021 15:16:36 GMT -5
I would love that. I'm a PSU fan. Dotson is so fun to watch. If Clifford wasn't hurt since the middle of the Iowa game, his stats would be way better. |
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2021 15:22:49 GMT -5
I do think that they should change pass interference to 15 yards instead of placing it at the spot of the foul. There are way too many penalty yards now, deciding way too many games.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2021 15:57:36 GMT -5
I do think that they should change pass interference to 15 yards instead of placing it at the spot of the foul. There are way too many penalty yards now, deciding way too many games. I agree with you but that would also lead to more DBs interfering a lot more on plays 30 yards down the field whenever they might be beat. It would be hard to call but maybe there could be a flagrant call that does what the current rule does with the majority of calls being 15 yds. It could work as they already have a 5 yd and a 15 yard level penalty for roughing the punter and for facemasks. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2021 16:11:38 GMT -5
The Pats need to contain Josh Allen running the ball tonight. If they lose it will be because Allen runs for a bunch of 1st downs and is maybe their leading rusher. Is Phillips big enough to spy him? Is Jamie Collins playing and is he still athletic enough to spy him? Or have Judon and VanNoy focus on containing him from each side.
I hope to see an aggressive D all night, 5 man rush and crowd the line of scrimmage.
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