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Red Sox vs. Rays 2021 ALDS Gameday Thread
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 7, 2021 22:31:43 GMT -5
It really is similar to Ortiz in 2008, he was definitely hurt (he hurt it on a swing in Baltimore), and he sucked in the second half, but he managed to tough through it and hit that big 3-run HR off Balfour in Game 5 of the ALCS Papi had some time to heal tho I think he still needed some surgery in the off-season. Pedroia in ‘07 hit a HR in the World Series with a wrist fracture. Our options aren’t great, but I agree, if it continues to look bad, we should consider the alternatives. He did have a good AB earlier in the game. I wonder what Cora says in the postgame
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Post by benzinger on Oct 7, 2021 22:33:57 GMT -5
Cora said Devers is fine, btw. Injured guys can’t swing-and-miss the bat at 186MPH anyway.
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Post by curtisw on Oct 7, 2021 22:35:41 GMT -5
Cora said Devers is fine, btw. Injured guys can’t swing-and-miss the bat at 186MPH anyway. Yeah this could be all fan drama and looking for reasons that aren’t there. He looks a little off but idk. Could also see it being Cora trying to be strategically cagey if they are trying to ride him through it. At this point we won’t know until the end of this season if at all imo
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Post by aznpopsical on Oct 7, 2021 22:36:06 GMT -5
Cora said Devers is fine, btw. Injured guys can’t swing-and-miss the bat at 186MPH anyway. He better not swing right thru a low 90s fastball down the middle in big spots from here on out then
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 7, 2021 22:38:34 GMT -5
Papi had some time to heal tho I think he still needed some surgery in the off-season. Pedroia in ‘07 hit a HR in the World Series with a wrist fracture. Our options aren’t great, but I agree, if it continues to look bad, we should consider the alternatives. He did have a good AB earlier in the game. I wonder what Cora says in the postgame Ortiz and Thomas saying Devers needs to cut his swing down and thinks he has tennis elbow, interesting
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Post by curtisw on Oct 7, 2021 22:50:55 GMT -5
I’ll stop blowing up this board now, but last thing I’ll say for tonight (I think) is really hoping if we manage to get their number tomorrow, we munch some popcorn in their faces in their insane, gross ballpark, and some equivalent to stealing home. Rays are annoying and good, such a devastating combo.
Also Rice doesn’t think Raffy is hurt for what it’s worth, Caron does, Ortiz does, etc. Big debate now. Who knows. Raffy didn’t have a completely awful game either. I’m on the fence and can really see it both ways at this point. I probably lean though to something being a little off. Some bad swing throughs and the hands and follow through looked a bit odd. But either way, it’s clearly gonna be a Storyline in this series unless he pops off and proves he is definitely not hurt. We shall see.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 7, 2021 22:53:33 GMT -5
Devers swinging from his heels with the bases juiced was ridiculous. He was short and to the ball against the Yankees and was productive. why would he go back to that approach? It was a bad hitting approach from several players and they play right into the Ray's hands. See how they have shifted on you and make it a point to hit it somewhere else. Use bat control against this team. they pitched the Sox to where they wanted them to hit the ball and they obliged them with the hard grounders right at em. Boy I wish they had that shifting crap when I played. You just let the ball travel and punch it away the other way. the Sox could use some bat control hitters for next year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 7, 2021 22:54:33 GMT -5
I’ll stop blowing up this board now, but last thing I’ll say for tonight (I think) is really hoping if we manage to get their number tomorrow, we munch some popcorn in their faces in their insane, gross ballpark, and some equivalent to stealing home. Rays are annoying and good, such a devastating combo. Also Rice doesn’t think Raffy is hurt for what it’s worth, Caron does, Ortiz does, etc. Big debate now. Who knows. Raffy didn’t have a completely awful game either. I’m on the fence and can really see it both ways at this point. I probably lean though to something being a little off. Some bad swing throughs and the hands and follow through looked a bit odd. But either way, it’s clearly gonna be a Storyline in this series unless he pops off and proves he is definitely not hurt. We shall see. I'll go with Ortiz and Thomas. Devers, when he's right, doesn't miss 92 or 93 MPH fastballs. If they're right and he has tennis elbow then I don't see how things are ok. I don't know much about it so I googled it and it said it takes between 6 months and 2 years to go away and stopping the repetitive motion helps. That's not good to read. It mentioned something about anti-inflammatories. If he is hurt I doubt the Red Sox would admit it.
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Post by curtisw on Oct 7, 2021 22:57:12 GMT -5
I’ll stop blowing up this board now, but last thing I’ll say for tonight (I think) is really hoping if we manage to get their number tomorrow, we munch some popcorn in their faces in their insane, gross ballpark, and some equivalent to stealing home. Rays are annoying and good, such a devastating combo. Also Rice doesn’t think Raffy is hurt for what it’s worth, Caron does, Ortiz does, etc. Big debate now. Who knows. Raffy didn’t have a completely awful game either. I’m on the fence and can really see it both ways at this point. I probably lean though to something being a little off. Some bad swing throughs and the hands and follow through looked a bit odd. But either way, it’s clearly gonna be a Storyline in this series unless he pops off and proves he is definitely not hurt. We shall see. I'll go with Ortiz and Thomas. Devers, when he's right, doesn't miss 92 or 93 MPH fastballs. If they're right and he has tennis elbow then I don't see how things are ok. I don't know much about it so I googled it and it said it takes between 6 months and 2 years to go away and stopping the repetitive motion helps. That's not good to read. It mentioned something about anti-inflammatories. If he is hurt I doubt the Red Sox would admit it. Yeah I think you’re on to something. I think something is likely off and the team has no reason to admit that right now if they are gonna keep trying to play him. Really hoping it’s not tennis elbow reading that. Not fun to think about.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 7, 2021 23:01:32 GMT -5
Missed most of the game because of work, but piecing things together from the box score and baseballsavant...
It looks like both offenses were unlucky? 9 hits and no runs is obviously a sign of bad sequencing. 0 walks doesn't help that, but based on the thread it seems like the approach was fine; TB pitchers were just throwing strikes. You can't walk if they don't throw balls, no matter how good your approach is. (And special shout-out to Bobby D, who went 0-4 with EVs of 105, 104, and 98. Sigh.)
But then, TB went a crazy 0-6 on their 6 hardest hit balls (xBA over .500 on those, collectively), all over 106mph.
With better luck we might've eked out a win, but with worse luck we might've lost 10-0.
Oh well. The good news is we didn't use Houck or Whitlock, so tomorrow is Sale-Houck-Whitlock day, and if we win that one we've got home-field advantage. (But what's the plan for game 4? Just gonna do it gallimaufry style?)
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 7, 2021 23:22:24 GMT -5
Missed most of the game because of work, but piecing things together from the box score and baseballsavant...
It looks like both offenses were unlucky? 9 hits and no runs is obviously a sign of bad sequencing. 0 walks doesn't help that, but based on the thread it seems like the approach was fine; TB pitchers were just throwing strikes. You can't walk if they don't throw balls, no matter how good your approach is. (And special shout-out to Bobby D, who went 0-4 with EVs of 105, 104, and 98. Sigh.)
But then, TB went a crazy 0-6 on their 6 hardest hit balls (xBA over .500 on those, collectively), all over 106mph.
With better luck we might've eked out a win, but with worse luck we might've lost 10-0.
Oh well. The good news is we didn't use Houck or Whitlock, so tomorrow is Sale-Houck-Whitlock day, and if we win that one we've got home-field advantage. (But what's the plan for game 4? Just gonna do it gallimaufry style?)
yep, that's largely it. For me, ERod was the main issue - walking the lead off batter, either poor command or unwillingness to challenge - just pretty uninvolved looking - the anti-Eovaldi. Put us in a hole early. I don't think we can start him again in this series.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 7, 2021 23:36:35 GMT -5
Rodriguez had a 2.35 ERA/1.93 FIP in his last four appearances of the regular season (or 3.26/3.07 in his last 12, if you prefer). I don't know if coming into the game on 10/3 threw him off, but I wouldn't lose confidence in him based on one outing. It's not like he's in the midst of a Cole-like swoon...
I'd be happy to use him once through the order in game 4 or 5. (I'd give him the start in game 5, except that Sale would be on regular rest by then.)
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,018
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 7, 2021 23:37:06 GMT -5
That Arozarena steal of home is going to sting for awhile. If CV has the presence of mind to realize that there are 2 strikes and 2 outs, and just sets up a target in the middle of the zone, and Taylor realizes what he's doing, and throws any kind of strike, the inning is over before Arozarena reaches home. There's no rule that says you have to contest every SB. It's no different than ignoring a runner trying to steal second by trying to get the batter out.
And in fact, even if the pitch arrives after him, the run doesn't count because the 3rd out was made on the same play before the batter reached first.
I trust this will be the last time you ever see a straight steal of home attempt with 2 strikes and 2 outs. Once the defense learns how to deal with it, it becomes a bonehead play.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 7, 2021 23:41:23 GMT -5
That Arozarena steal of home is going to sting for awhile. If CV has the presence of mind to realize that there are 2 strikes and 2 outs, and just sets up a target in the middle of the zone, and Taylor realizes what he's doing, and throws any kind of strike, the inning is over before Arozarena reaches home. There's no rule that says you have to contend every SB. It's no different than ignoring a runner trying to steal second by trying to get the batter out.
And in fact, even if the pitch arrives after him, the run doesn't count because the 3rd out was made on the same play before the batter reached first.
I trust this will be the last time you ever see a straight steal of home attempt with 2 strikes and 2 outs. Once the defense learns how to deal with it, it becomes a bonehead play.
Wait, really? You can just throw a strike there with a runner sprawled over home plate and the batter backing out of the batter's box?
That's fun. Baseball is weird and fun.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 7, 2021 23:43:10 GMT -5
Cora said Devers is fine, btw. Injured guys can’t swing-and-miss the bat at 186MPH anyway. He better not swing right thru a low 90s fastball down the middle in big spots from here on out then Just hit the ball hard, you don't have to hit it to the moon. A single in that situation scores two and a double clears the bases. More than that, any hit knocks Feyereisen out and brings Fairbanks in, probably for the last four outs. And who knows? Maybe more hits and runs follow.
No hits means that Feyereisen gets to start the 9th and Fairbanks is ready to go tomorrow. But two guys went up swinging out of their shoes and we saw what that got us.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 7, 2021 23:51:16 GMT -5
It was just stupid to play such an extreme shift with a fast guy who you know is not afraid to try it on third. At the very least, they needed to have a play called from the dugout for Raffy to go to third and Vazquez or Taylor to throw there. Or have Taylor step off and run toward the runner while Raffy covers third. Or have Taylor run toward a spot between the runner and third, to try to get him to lean toward home. Instead, they just pretended he wasn't there and he had plenty of time to read Taylor's delivery and he burned us. It was embarrassing but not much more than that, as it's unlikely to come up again and it changed the score from 4-0 to 5-0. If it had broken a tie or tied the game, then it would have really stung but it didn't.
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Post by scottysmalls on Oct 8, 2021 0:31:11 GMT -5
If CV has the presence of mind to realize that there are 2 strikes and 2 outs, and just sets up a target in the middle of the zone, and Taylor realizes what he's doing, and throws any kind of strike, the inning is over before Arozarena reaches home. There's no rule that says you have to contend every SB. It's no different than ignoring a runner trying to steal second by trying to get the batter out.
And in fact, even if the pitch arrives after him, the run doesn't count because the 3rd out was made on the same play before the batter reached first.
I trust this will be the last time you ever see a straight steal of home attempt with 2 strikes and 2 outs. Once the defense learns how to deal with it, it becomes a bonehead play.
Wait, really? You can just throw a strike there with a runner sprawled over home plate and the batter backing out of the batter's box?
That's fun. Baseball is weird and fun.
Hypothetically what would happen if the ball hits the runner stealing while he's crossing the plate?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,704
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Post by cdj on Oct 8, 2021 0:42:05 GMT -5
Fun fact, a team has never won scoring the amount of runs the Red Sox scored today
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Post by wildsox on Oct 8, 2021 4:27:31 GMT -5
Plawecki needs to be our starting catcher in Game 2 and moving forward
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 8, 2021 8:04:35 GMT -5
Devers is clearly hurting, just watch as he grabs at his wrist after every swing-n-miss. There is nothing to be gained for Cora to announce otherwise, so I put little value in his declaration that Devers is fine. Forget the spreadsheets, use your eyes, he is not right, which really isn't that surprising probably got hurt from the recent "swing from his a$$" approach.
I don't understand the "ERod $hit his pants in game1 so lets bring him back for game4" mindset
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 8, 2021 8:49:18 GMT -5
Devers is clearly hurting, just watch as he grabs at his wrist after every swing-n-miss. There is nothing to be gained for Cora to announce otherwise, so I put little value in his declaration that Devers is fine. Forget the spreadsheets, use your eyes, he is not right, which really isn't that surprising given the recent "swing from his a$$" approach. I don't understand the "ERod $hit his pants in game1 so lets bring him back for game4" mindset Agree with your first point totally. The second one I think is a possibility or else I don't think Cora would have used Pivetta for as many pitches as he did. He could have yanked Pivetta after 40 pitches if he wants to put him in for a Game 4 start on 3 days rest. With E-Rod usually when he sucks he's giving up his bloop hits and giving up his ill timed HRs, etc, but his control is usually a helluva lot better. He had none of that yesterday. He normally doesn't suck in that way. So maybe he comes back and pitches more like himself in Game 4. He'd have a short rope I'd think, but otherwise what else do you do? Bring back Sale on 3 days rest and start Pivetta in Game 5? Start Pivetta on 3 days rest after throwing about 80 pitches? Maybe it's the latter but if it is I'd think it would have made more sense to yank him sooner. Houck is a possibility but if the Sox are in a high leverage situation in Game 2 and/or Game 3, I'd think you'd want him available for a couple of innings in high leverage situations in the mid to later innings kind of the way he was used against the Yankees but maybe for 6 outs instead?
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Post by benzinger on Oct 8, 2021 9:33:14 GMT -5
Is it fair to note that Chris Sale has never established himself as a “big game pitcher” and that he has basically been awful in the postseason? He has a career 5.76ERA in the postseason(not a typo). I really wouldn’t expect much from him tonight.
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Post by foreverred9 on Oct 8, 2021 9:43:39 GMT -5
Is it fair to note that Chris Sale has never established himself as a “big game pitcher” and that he has basically been awful in the postseason? He has a career 5.76ERA in the postseason(not a typo). I really wouldn’t expect much from him tonight. I thought it had more to do with a general decline we would see each year as the season wore on as opposed to him not being a big-game pitcher.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 8, 2021 10:00:14 GMT -5
Devers is clearly hurting, just watch as he grabs at his wrist after every swing-n-miss. There is nothing to be gained for Cora to announce otherwise, so I put little value in his declaration that Devers is fine. Forget the spreadsheets, use your eyes, he is not right, which really isn't that surprising probably got hurt from the recent "swing from his a$$" approach. I don't understand the "ERod $hit his pants in game1 so lets bring him back for game4" mindset I was kinda joking when I mentioned ERod in game 4 when he was in the middle of a mini meltdown but it actually makes more sense than Houck.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 8, 2021 10:02:06 GMT -5
Is it fair to note that Chris Sale has never established himself as a “big game pitcher” and that he has basically been awful in the postseason? He has a career 5.76ERA in the postseason(not a typo). I really wouldn’t expect much from him tonight. I thought it had more to do with a general decline we would see each year as the season wore on as opposed to him not being a big-game pitcher. You say potato, I say po-tah-to. The results just aren’t there no matter the rationale.
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