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Post by incandenza on Oct 11, 2021 13:53:15 GMT -5
Thanks to a kind friend, I got to watch the game after all. And what a game it was!! Eovaldi was great although I wouldn't have minded seeing him go longer. The problem is when you go with too many relievers one of them is bound to have a bad day. Perhaps Cora is saving him for a relief appearance in Game 5 and that's why he pulled him early? I wasn't overly thrilled with Cora, as much as I like him, particularly in the 8th inning. I can't for the life of me figure why he had Robles face Arozarena with 2 outs and the tying run on 3rd when he could have a) gone to Whitlock or b) simply walked him to face Kiermeier. I get that you don't want to put the go ahead run on base and Kiermier is a lefty, but still, you can't let Arozarena beat you. The difference on offense between the two is huge. That was a mistake facing him. The other issue isn't from this game but rather from pitching Pivetta longer in Game 1 than was necessary. Now after his heroics, Pivetta has over 140 pitches in a 4 day stretch, which is too many. I hope it doesn't wipe him out should they advance. I would think he's not available the rest of the series. I did appreciate Cora not turning to Perez in the 12th inning when I thought he might. That 13th was crazy. The Red Sox caught a similar break to the break they got in Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS when Tony Clark's ground rule double would have broke a 4-4 tie in the 9th but even though Sierra would have scored, the ball bounced into the stands for a ground rule double. That one was obvious. This one....I had no idea. I mean what would have stopped Renfroe from using his hands as a tennis racket and batting the ball over the wall once it bounced rather than trying to field it? Obviously the ball hitting him on the ricochet off the wall was unintentional but if it didn't hit off him it would have stayed in play and scored the go-ahead run. So it's like he got rewarded for his having the ball accidentally hit him. Strange rule. Kind of the baseball version of the tuck rule? The Rays got screwed out of a run although the umps got it right based on the rules in the books, so I was really glad that Christian Vazquez hit a 2 run HR. The lasting memory might be that wacky play and I'm sure people will forget, but the Sox would have won the game anyways when Vazquez hit a 2 run shot. I think he would have hit it either way? I mean, the Rays must have been deflated when they didn't score. So maybe that showed up in the bottom half of the inning? We'll never know for sure. All I do know was that was one helluva huge HR by Vazquez. Something about Sox catchers walking off games in extra innings. (Fisk HR, Salty single, and now Vazquez homer). I hope the Sox can finish off the Rays tomorrow. I hope E-Rod can bounce back and that the pen isn't too spent. They should be fine there. But the Rays are probably stuck starting Wacha tomorrow and will probably follow up with McHugh. Hope the Sox smash Wacha like they did in Game 6 of the 2013 World Series. Great victory. They have the opportunity to close this out tomorrow. They can do it. They just have to make it happen. I had an issue with Cora in the 8th inning as well. Although I will admit that his moves almost always seem to work. i was expecting him to start Whitlock in the 8th inning with the goal of having him pitch a 2 inning save. This would have saved Pivetta for today's game. Moreover, I think Whitlock could have pitched 2 innings. I understand there might be something behind the scenes that I wa not aware of that Cora knew about that would cause him not to try that. But today I read somewhere that perhaps Robles was bailing some kind of illness last night. That would seem to make trying to use Whitlock for a 2 inning save seem even more like the best way to proceed. Agree. I have witnesses who can attest that I did not like bringing in Robles there AT ALL at the time. I thought Whitlock should have gotten two innings; and even if he didn't, he should at least have gotten the part of the order that was due up in the 8th. Heck, that would even have left Robles to be the closer (but facing the bottom of the order), a role he seems comfortable with.
And if Robles was sick to boot, that's something the coaching staff should have been aware of, no?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2021 13:58:05 GMT -5
Thanks to a kind friend, I got to watch the game after all. And what a game it was!! Eovaldi was great although I wouldn't have minded seeing him go longer. The problem is when you go with too many relievers one of them is bound to have a bad day. Perhaps Cora is saving him for a relief appearance in Game 5 and that's why he pulled him early? I wasn't overly thrilled with Cora, as much as I like him, particularly in the 8th inning. I can't for the life of me figure why he had Robles face Arozarena with 2 outs and the tying run on 3rd when he could have a) gone to Whitlock or b) simply walked him to face Kiermeier. I get that you don't want to put the go ahead run on base and Kiermier is a lefty, but still, you can't let Arozarena beat you. The difference on offense between the two is huge. That was a mistake facing him. The other issue isn't from this game but rather from pitching Pivetta longer in Game 1 than was necessary. Now after his heroics, Pivetta has over 140 pitches in a 4 day stretch, which is too many. I hope it doesn't wipe him out should they advance. I would think he's not available the rest of the series. I did appreciate Cora not turning to Perez in the 12th inning when I thought he might. That 13th was crazy. The Red Sox caught a similar break to the break they got in Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS when Tony Clark's ground rule double would have broke a 4-4 tie in the 9th but even though Sierra would have scored, the ball bounced into the stands for a ground rule double. That one was obvious. This one....I had no idea. I mean what would have stopped Renfroe from using his hands as a tennis racket and batting the ball over the wall once it bounced rather than trying to field it? Obviously the ball hitting him on the ricochet off the wall was unintentional but if it didn't hit off him it would have stayed in play and scored the go-ahead run. So it's like he got rewarded for his having the ball accidentally hit him. Strange rule. Kind of the baseball version of the tuck rule? The Rays got screwed out of a run although the umps got it right based on the rules in the books, so I was really glad that Christian Vazquez hit a 2 run HR. The lasting memory might be that wacky play and I'm sure people will forget, but the Sox would have won the game anyways when Vazquez hit a 2 run shot. I think he would have hit it either way? I mean, the Rays must have been deflated when they didn't score. So maybe that showed up in the bottom half of the inning? We'll never know for sure. All I do know was that was one helluva huge HR by Vazquez. Something about Sox catchers walking off games in extra innings. (Fisk HR, Salty single, and now Vazquez homer). I hope the Sox can finish off the Rays tomorrow. I hope E-Rod can bounce back and that the pen isn't too spent. They should be fine there. But the Rays are probably stuck starting Wacha tomorrow and will probably follow up with McHugh. Hope the Sox smash Wacha like they did in Game 6 of the 2013 World Series. Great victory. They have the opportunity to close this out tomorrow. They can do it. They just have to make it happen. I had an issue with Cora in the 8th inning as well. Although I will admit that his moves almost always seem to work. i was expecting him to start Whitlock in the 8th inning with the goal of having him pitch a 2 inning save. This would have saved Pivetta for today's game. Moreover, I think Whitlock could have pitched 2 innings. I understand there might be something behind the scenes that I wa not aware of that Cora knew about that would cause him not to try that. But today I read somewhere that perhaps Robles was bailing some kind of illness last night. That would seem to make trying to use Whitlock for a 2 inning save seem even more like the best way to proceed. Yeah, I didn't get it. I understood preferring Whitlock to close down the game instead of Robles. I thought maybe Robles had recovered from his early bout of wildness when he struck out Yandy Diaz but with a runner on 3rd and 2 outs in a 4-3 game with Arozarena at the plate and Kiermaier on deck, the move to me was to avoid Babe Ruth Arozarena by walking him and taking your chance with the much weaker offensive guy in Kiermaier even if he's lefty and it puts the go-ahead run on base anyways. I mean if you can't get Kiermaier out in that situation you're not meant to win the game. But Cora instead let Robles face Arozarena who triples home the tying run and THEN he walks Kiermaier as if he was Babe Ruth to face Zunino. I get wanting to face Zunino instead of Kiermaier but the danger of that is that it guaranteed an AB for Wander Franco in the 9th. Fortunately Whitlock was up to that task. I just think Kiermaier was the guy to face rather than Arozarena. I think if the Sox avoid letting Franco or Arozarena beat them in a key spot they have a good chance.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Oct 11, 2021 14:28:18 GMT -5
It's easy to bask in the euphoria of last night's exciting win, but I think this game tonight is going to be a tough game for us. I'm just not feeling that confident about getting a great outing from Erod. The Rays are fighting for survival, and seem to have a much better lineup against LHP. Franco's numbers are much better as a right-handed hitter. He scares me. We are going to need to score a lot. I really hope I'm wrong about tonight and we can get this series done and get some days of rest.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2021 14:35:51 GMT -5
The idea of seeing Martín Pérez or Austin Davis out there in a high leverage situation is really scaring me.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Oct 11, 2021 14:36:42 GMT -5
Best case scenario tonight is that our offense comes out scorching and gives ERod a big early lead.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Oct 11, 2021 14:38:38 GMT -5
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2021 14:48:20 GMT -5
No Dalbec, good.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 11, 2021 14:59:00 GMT -5
I get not wanting him to face fireballers, but are you really so adamant about not wanting the guy who had an 1.100 OPS in his last 150 ABs of the seeason to face McHugh or Wacha?
(The lineup's fine as is, imo, but I would have had no problem with Dalbec being in it either. There is some cost to having Schwarber play 1B and having Martinez trying to run the bases...)
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2021 15:21:59 GMT -5
I get not wanting him to face fireballers, but are you really so adamant about not wanting the guy who had an 1.100 OPS in his last 150 ABs of the seeason to face McHugh or Wacha?
(The lineup's fine as is, imo, but I would have had no problem with Dalbec being in it either. There is some cost to having Schwarber play 1B and having Martinez trying to run the bases...)
Yes, I went to the wild card game against the Yankees as well as yesterday and he has been horrible. Going tonight and don’t want them to take a chance on him vs a righty. Fine with throwing him out there vs. McLanahan.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 15:31:54 GMT -5
I can't stand ERod, but he is do for a good game. I hope Cora lets him pitch tonight and stays away from Houck. Don't put all your eggs in one basket today because if we lose I feel real good about Houck in game five.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 11, 2021 15:37:37 GMT -5
I get not wanting him to face fireballers, but are you really so adamant about not wanting the guy who had an 1.100 OPS in his last 150 ABs of the seeason to face McHugh or Wacha?
(The lineup's fine as is, imo, but I would have had no problem with Dalbec being in it either. There is some cost to having Schwarber play 1B and having Martinez trying to run the bases...)
Yes, I went to the wild card game against the Yankees as well as yesterday and he has been horrible. Going tonight and don’t want them to take a chance on him vs a righty. Fine with throwing him out there vs. McLanahan. He's been quite bad in a SSS as a pinch-hitter, as he was yesterday. But that might be another reason to start him instead and have someone else who can come in off the bench...?
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Post by soxinsf on Oct 11, 2021 15:37:47 GMT -5
I get not wanting him to face fireballers, but are you really so adamant about not wanting the guy who had an 1.100 OPS in his last 150 ABs of the seeason to face McHugh or Wacha?
(The lineup's fine as is, imo, but I would have had no problem with Dalbec being in it either. There is some cost to having Schwarber play 1B and having Martinez trying to run the bases...)
Yes, I went to the wild card game against the Yankees as well as yesterday and he has been horrible. Going tonight and don’t want them to take a chance on him vs a righty. Fine with throwing him out there vs. McLanahan. You cannot be serious? You are judging Dalbec based on two games? Horrible? I agree with Incandenza that it is OK to leave Dalbec out. But you are treating him like chopped liver. No thanks.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 11, 2021 15:37:55 GMT -5
Probably no need to have JDM and Schwarber on next year’s roster. But it’s a wonderful luxury to have during this postseason! We’ll see if JDM opts out(guessing he won’t). Schwarber is due a big contract and I doubt the Sox are the team to give it to him. I think its unlikely JDM opts out. 2.9 fwar for 19.3M for an aging DH. Who would pay more than that? After a full season of rest I think he’ll comeback and be similar to this year. As far as the year after that goes, I agree others who think we should move away from a permanent DH. Its great that Papi and JDM worked out but its too risky that the deal becomes a bust. I don’t love buying high on Schwarber as much as I like him. It’s not that JDM can get more money for 2022, it’s that he(and Boras) might think they can get him a 2-3 year deal in the open market this offseason. It’s not so unlikely, especially if there is a universal DH. 3yr/$42M for him?? Something like that?
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Post by soxinsf on Oct 11, 2021 15:39:53 GMT -5
I can't stand ERod, but he is do for a good game. I hope Cora lets him pitch tonight and stays away from Houck. Don't put all your eggs in one basket today because if we lose I feel real good about Houck in game five. Do you really think that Sale is not going to start game five if there is one?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 15:40:27 GMT -5
I get not wanting him to face fireballers, but are you really so adamant about not wanting the guy who had an 1.100 OPS in his last 150 ABs of the seeason to face McHugh or Wacha?
(The lineup's fine as is, imo, but I would have had no problem with Dalbec being in it either. There is some cost to having Schwarber play 1B and having Martinez trying to run the bases...)
Yes, I went to the wild card game against the Yankees as well as yesterday and he has been horrible. Going tonight and don’t want them to take a chance on him vs a righty. Fine with throwing him out there vs. McLanahan. I went to both games too the atmosphere of the that Yankee game was unreal. Baseball not dead in this town people want a winning team to root for.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 15:46:56 GMT -5
I can't stand ERod, but he is do for a good game. I hope Cora lets him pitch tonight and stays away from Houck. Don't put all your eggs in one basket today because if we lose I feel real good about Houck in game five. Do you really think that Sale is not going to start game five if there is one? No I don't think Sale should start game five if there is one.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2021 15:48:30 GMT -5
Yes, I went to the wild card game against the Yankees as well as yesterday and he has been horrible. Going tonight and don’t want them to take a chance on him vs a righty. Fine with throwing him out there vs. McLanahan. You cannot be serious? You are judging Dalbec based on two games? Horrible? I agree with Incandenza that it is OK to leave Dalbec out. But you are treating him like chopped liver. No thanks. I’ve been watching him all year man. He has 91 Ks in 263 PAs against righties hitting .212 this year. He is not hot anymore and hasn’t been for awhile. This is Game 4 of the ALDS its not the time to throw Bobby out there and hope for the best when this team is hitting into an insane number of double plays and leaving men on base all over the place.
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Post by soxinsf on Oct 11, 2021 16:12:01 GMT -5
I think its unlikely JDM opts out. 2.9 fwar for 19.3M for an aging DH. Who would pay more than that? After a full season of rest I think he’ll comeback and be similar to this year. As far as the year after that goes, I agree others who think we should move away from a permanent DH. Its great that Papi and JDM worked out but its too risky that the deal becomes a bust. I don’t love buying high on Schwarber as much as I like him. It’s not that JDM can get more money for 2022, it’s that he(and Boras) might think they can get him a 2-3 year deal in the open market this offseason. It’s not so unlikely, especially if there is a universal DH. 3yr/$42M for him?? Something like that? Universal DH changes the JD and Schwarber equations. Then opting out makes a lot of sense. There are not fifteen ready made DHs out there if the NL adopts it. I would be happy having JD opt out if we could hold on to KS. Universal DH probably sees both of them priced out of Sox consideration.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 11, 2021 16:21:39 GMT -5
I can't stand ERod, but he is do for a good game. I hope Cora lets him pitch tonight and stays away from Houck. Don't put all your eggs in one basket today because if we lose I feel real good about Houck in game five. Do you really think that Sale is not going to start game five if there is one? Cora won’t start Sale in game 5(if it happens). We’ve all seen enough to know that he can’t be trusted. I think he would prefer to use Sale for an inning tonight if the opportunity presents itself.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 11, 2021 16:22:24 GMT -5
Situationally perfect. A win tomorrow and the Sox have the home field advantage and momentum on their side. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. I'm sticking with my post after game 1. I'm sticking with my post after game 2.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 11, 2021 16:22:28 GMT -5
You cannot be serious? You are judging Dalbec based on two games? Horrible? I agree with Incandenza that it is OK to leave Dalbec out. But you are treating him like chopped liver. No thanks. I’ve been watching him all year man. He has 91 Ks in 263 PAs against righties hitting .212 this year. He is not hot anymore and hasn’t been for awhile. This is Game 4 of the ALDS its not the time to throw Bobby out there and hope for the best when this team is hitting into an insane number of double plays and leaving men on base all over the place. He went cold in his last 20 PAs of the season (though he still had two homers in that stretch - his only two hits). Then he went 0-8 in his first two playoff games, with 2 Ks, but had some good looking ABs and some solid contact. Then he struck out in two PAs as a pinch hitter, one of which was a tough AB where he drilled a couple of foul balls and came close to homering, and the other was a bad K.
Never mind his late season surge, since May 7th he has a 127 wRC+ against righties.
So I dunno, the idea that he's a lost cause against pitchers like Wacha and McHugh seems like a take that's wandered in here from June or something. (Again, sitting him in this game is defensible enough; going out of the way to applaud his not being in the lineup seems a little excessive.)
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Post by benzinger on Oct 11, 2021 16:23:03 GMT -5
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 11, 2021 16:30:06 GMT -5
I can't stand ERod, but he is do for a good game. I hope Cora lets him pitch tonight and stays away from Houck. Don't put all your eggs in one basket today because if we lose I feel real good about Houck in game five. Houck is there's a lead late. If we're up like 5-2 and it's getting late in the game I'd rather use him then say Ottavino and Barnes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 16:41:00 GMT -5
I can't stand ERod, but he is do for a good game. I hope Cora lets him pitch tonight and stays away from Houck. Don't put all your eggs in one basket today because if we lose I feel real good about Houck in game five. Houck is there's a lead late. If we're up like 5-2 and it's getting late in the game I'd rather use him then say Ottavino and Barnes. I agree with that if where up.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 11, 2021 16:45:03 GMT -5
If you stand back and look at it, the entire series pivoted on Houck's game 2 performance. The Rays will be looking for a pivot point. Let's not give them one because if that happens, I don't like our odds in a game 5 at the circus tent.
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