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Red Sox vs. Rays 2021 ALDS Gameday Thread
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Post by vokuhila on Oct 11, 2021 10:29:00 GMT -5
Pivettas intensity and Schwarbers personality won the fans over and I absolutely loved seeing it. I'm not a smart man, so I don't know a lot of things...but what I do know is that I need more Pivetta antics in my life! Ride the high, my man!
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2021 10:33:57 GMT -5
So - in the world of sliding expectations - with the Sox up 2-1 and the key game today at home - would we be disappointed if we didn't win today - if not today, game 5 in Tampa - to move on? Or will we say "well, we didn't expect this, great season, I'm OK"? This long time, old guy Red Sox fan would be really disappointed, that's for sure. Cora has them right where he wants them! Expectations change as the season goes on. And now they change as the playoffs go on. The answer to the question can also be answered in retrospect. Right now a series loss would suck as they are up one with a game tonight at home to close it out in which they should be favorites. I think they are going to win tonight but if they don't and lose the series I will be disappointed but satisfied they had a very good season. A season in which they struck gold with some players that will be low cost with solid contributions for next year. Between the draft, the farm system, some good moves and the season I think they have provided the fans with a great season. The Sox are technically favorites but its really basically a pickem game. I like our chances if McHugh is starting though.
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 11, 2021 10:40:11 GMT -5
Did anyone see the Grandal play on the throw to home plate? I would be so pissed if I were an Astros fan. That was A-Rod shopping bag 2004 ALCS Game 6 level interference haha
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 11, 2021 10:41:58 GMT -5
Expectations change as the season goes on. And now they change as the playoffs go on. The answer to the question can also be answered in retrospect. Right now a series loss would suck as they are up one with a game tonight at home to close it out in which they should be favorites. I think they are going to win tonight but if they don't and lose the series I will be disappointed but satisfied they had a very good season. A season in which they struck gold with some players that will be low cost with solid contributions for next year. Between the draft, the farm system, some good moves and the season I think they have provided the fans with a great season. The Sox are technically favorites but its really basically a pickem game. I like our chances if McHugh is starting though. The scenario I’m worried about is Baz coming out the bullpen letting it loose then getting to the backend of the Rays bullpen. I hope that some of the relievers are less effective on back to back days, I think that’s the path to victory
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Post by Guidas on Oct 11, 2021 10:46:20 GMT -5
ESPN has Eudardo listed as the starter tonight.
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Post by patford on Oct 11, 2021 10:46:31 GMT -5
Just seeing them knock out the Yankees was more than enough to satisfy me. At this point it's all gravy. Nice to see Vazquez come through with the walk off. He is not one of the problems on the team and the abuse directed against him is just weird. This reached new heights with fans blaming Sale's poor outing on Vazquez. When a teams top guns fail it's expected they will get hammered for not producing but there are always a lot of players on any team who don't come with high expectations.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 11, 2021 10:53:09 GMT -5
Expectations change as the season goes on. And now they change as the playoffs go on. The answer to the question can also be answered in retrospect. Right now a series loss would suck as they are up one with a game tonight at home to close it out in which they should be favorites. I think they are going to win tonight but if they don't and lose the series I will be disappointed but satisfied they had a very good season. A season in which they struck gold with some players that will be low cost with solid contributions for next year. Between the draft, the farm system, some good moves and the season I think they have provided the fans with a great season. The Sox are technically favorites but its really basically a pickem game. I like our chances if McHugh is starting though. And he is.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 11, 2021 11:07:35 GMT -5
Expectations change as the season goes on. And now they change as the playoffs go on. The answer to the question can also be answered in retrospect. Right now a series loss would suck as they are up one with a game tonight at home to close it out in which they should be favorites. I think they are going to win tonight but if they don't and lose the series I will be disappointed but satisfied they had a very good season. A season in which they struck gold with some players that will be low cost with solid contributions for next year. Between the draft, the farm system, some good moves and the season I think they have provided the fans with a great season. The Sox are technically favorites but its really basically a pickem game. I like our chances if McHugh is starting though. I think that with the Sox having Erod starting vs a Rays team that will have to depend on their BP it gives the Sox the edge. Sure Erod can come out and have nothing like his last outing but the Sox have been hitting the Rays pen hard for 2 games now. And the same guys the Sox have been hitting are the ones that will be pitching. If the Sox bats stay hot they should win and their are a lot of guys swinging a hot bat right now. They have the MO.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 11, 2021 11:09:07 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Oct 11, 2021 11:16:18 GMT -5
Betting line is exactly a coinflip tonight
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 11, 2021 11:59:10 GMT -5
You know in the off-season I believe the difference from DD to Bloom will be , he will not be teary eyed if Scwarber gets a crazy deal , he won’t match it, unlike DD he retained the same guys the next season and it bite him. Evoladi ended up ok. I love it when these guys play playoff baseball you can’t price that in a contract.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2021 12:06:29 GMT -5
We all want the Sox to win of course but if they can wrap it up tonight it would be so beneficial to their pitching staff. They've been worked hard.
I don't think we see Pivetta until either Game 3 or 4 of the ALCS or 2022 as Eric mentioned. But if the Sox can win today without having to use Houck the rest would do him good. The Sox pen should be in better shape than the Rays, but still, having 3 days off would do this staff some good.
Here's hoping they finish off the Rays tonight in front of the home crowd.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2021 12:08:08 GMT -5
Just seeing them knock out the Yankees was more than enough to satisfy me. At this point it's all gravy. Nice to see Vazquez come through with the walk off. He is not one of the problems on the team and the abuse directed against him is just weird. This reached new heights with fans blaming Sale's poor outing on Vazquez. When a teams top guns fail it's expected they will get hammered for not producing but there are always a lot of players on any team who don't come with high expectations. Yeah gunning Judge down at the plate was extremely satisfying in particular.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 11, 2021 12:22:04 GMT -5
The Sox are technically favorites but its really basically a pickem game. I like our chances if McHugh is starting though. The scenario I’m worried about is Baz coming out the bullpen letting it loose then getting to the backend of the Rays bullpen. I hope that some of the relievers are less effective on back to back days, I think that’s the path to victory I ran down all 13 pitchers on the roster back on page 79. It seems as if folks are waking up and not bothering to look at what they missed, but that's understandable. So I'm going to repost it!
Only Wisler really struggles on no rest.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 11, 2021 12:22:37 GMT -5
You know in the off-season I believe the difference from DD to Bloom will be , he will not be teary eyed if Scwarber gets a crazy deal , he won’t match it, unlike DD he retained the same guys the next season and it bite him. Evoladi ended up ok. I love it when these guys play playoff baseball you can’t price that in a contract. Probably no need to have JDM and Schwarber on next year’s roster. But it’s a wonderful luxury to have during this postseason! We’ll see if JDM opts out(guessing he won’t). Schwarber is due a big contract and I doubt the Sox are the team to give it to him.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 11, 2021 12:23:57 GMT -5
White Sox v. Astros rained out today. Hoping they have to play the next 2 days.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 11, 2021 12:33:28 GMT -5
Hope to see Wacha and Fleming tonight, too, although more likely it's Baz and the bullpen brigade. Baz has all of 13 career IP in the major leagues and they seemed to have a pretty good plan for him in game 2. I don't mind our odds against him tonight if it comes to that.
Whatever the case, they're going to have to expose the soft underbelly of their pitching staff at some point(s) in the game.
I'm guessing Sale is our closer for this game?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 11, 2021 12:35:01 GMT -5
Some extra info on this version, including this ...
tl, dr Version
They need 4 total innings from Wacha and Baz, and they need McHugh (2 innings), Kittredge, Fairbanks, and Feyereisen (1 each) to do their thing without too much difficulty; maybe Fleming finishes an inning for somebody. Beyond that, you've got guys they have a reason to stay away from.
No Problem McHugh. They'll look to get 2 innings from him; more than that would be unprecedented this year. Kittredge. On no days rest, 1 inning only. Has a .733 OPS allowed on no rest versus .719 overall, in 24 career outings. Fairbanks. Ditto. .729 versus .709, in 16 outings. Feyereisen. He's gone 1.2 on 0 days rest, and after more pitches (18) then he threw yesterday (11), but he gave up 2 hits, 2 walks, and 2 runs. So expect an inning. .641 vs. .630, in 10 outings. Super Side
Wacha hasn't pitched on 2 days rest since 8/28/13, and Baz has never done it, but pitching on 2 days rest is like a side session that matters. (Some guys throw on one days rest and some on two; we don't have that info for them.) You could see two innings each; if they can't complete them, then the following guys get in the mix. Valid for a Limited Time Only?Chargois threw 20 pitches. The last time he pitched the day after he threw that many or more was 9/23/16, but he threw one pitch and had it hit for a 2B. He did pitch the day after throwing 19 this year with the Mariners, but that was with 2 outs, and he struck out Matt Chapman looking on 8 pitches. OTOH, he has thrown 35 and 36 pitches total on consecutive days with Rays, so there's a (probably small) possibility that they would use him for a full inning rather than just with 2 outs. He also has a bigger no-rest spit than the relievers already mentioned, .751 vs. .706 in 30 outings. Proceed with Caution?Wisler has a career .956 OPS allowed when pitching two days in a row, versus .778 overall. This year it was 1.337 (29 PA) versus .672. His only good outing was his August 1 save against us, however. He wasn't hit as hard as it seemed yesterday, as Kiké's leadoff liner to 3B was only 87.9. Only Xander smoked him (108.6, .750). Comes in, HandyFleming has never pitched in back-to-back games. But he's the only lefty in the pen, and there's a first time for everything. Likelier to finish an inning than throw a whole one, I think. Don't Be Cruel?Patino has never pitched two days in a row, either. They still hope he can be a starter, so there's no need to give him a "get on the horse that threw you" moment. And they've got as many as 9 guys in front of him, so why not give him a day off after losing last night? But if they used him anyway I wouldn't be shocked. Break Glass in Case of Emergency?McClanahan's being saved for game 5, but you can see a scenario where there's no one left to close out a lead. As I just noted, he's never pitched on 3 days rest in his life, but again, this could be like a side session for him. No Pitching
Robertson just threw 40 pitches, his most since 6/1/16. In fact, he hasn't thrown 40 pitches total in consecutive days since 8/25/17. In 2016, he got 6 days rest and then faced 5 batters, giving up a homer and three singles. He's not pitching in game 4, and maybe not in any game 5, either. Rasmussen has pitched on 0 days rest three times as a reliever, but after a max of 21 pitches. He threw 31 yesterday. And as a starter, the Rays gave him extra rest.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2021 12:39:19 GMT -5
You know in the off-season I believe the difference from DD to Bloom will be , he will not be teary eyed if Scwarber gets a crazy deal , he won’t match it, unlike DD he retained the same guys the next season and it bite him. Evoladi ended up ok. I love it when these guys play playoff baseball you can’t price that in a contract. Probably no need to have JDM and Schwarber on next year’s roster. But it’s a wonderful luxury to have during this postseason! We’ll see if JDM opts out(guessing he won’t). Schwarber is due a big contract and I doubt the Sox are the team to give it to him. I think its unlikely JDM opts out. 2.9 fwar for 19.3M for an aging DH. Who would pay more than that? After a full season of rest I think he’ll comeback and be similar to this year. As far as the year after that goes, I agree others who think we should move away from a permanent DH. Its great that Papi and JDM worked out but its too risky that the deal becomes a bust. I don’t love buying high on Schwarber as much as I like him.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 11, 2021 12:39:20 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on Oct 11, 2021 12:56:52 GMT -5
Looks like that's their odds of winning the series, not just tonight's game?
Not to be over-confident, but I really think that treating this game like a coinflip is overlooking the fact that it's a bullpen game for the Rays... a day after their bullpen pitched 11 innings. I guess this is a contrarian take, but I believe that will present a challenge for them!
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Post by chrisfromnc on Oct 11, 2021 13:08:48 GMT -5
So - in the world of sliding expectations - with the Sox up 2-1 and the key game today at home - would we be disappointed if we didn't win today - if not today, game 5 in Tampa - to move on? Or will we say "well, we didn't expect this, great season, I'm OK"? This long time, old guy Red Sox fan would be really disappointed, that's for sure. Cora has them right where he wants them! I feel like the Sox are playing with house money. I’d be disappointed in the micro if they lost tonight and then tomorrow. But I’m firm in thinking they have already exceeded my expectations. That doesn’t go away just because I have a natural tendency as a fan to move the goal posts and wish for more as they add post season wins.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 11, 2021 13:11:32 GMT -5
Looks like that's their odds of winning the series, not just tonight's game?
Not to be over-confident, but I really think that treating this game like a coinflip is overlooking the fact that it's a bullpen game for the Rays... a day after their bullpen pitched 11 innings. I guess this is a contrarian take, but I believe that will present a challenge for them!
I know I already posted this but 35 hits and 20 runs over the last 2 games against many of the pitchers they will face tonight has me feeling optimistic. Seven different batters have had 3 or more hits in those 2 games, that is a lot of hot guys. The Sox have the momentum.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 11, 2021 13:35:13 GMT -5
Looks like that's their odds of winning the series, not just tonight's game?
Not to be over-confident, but I really think that treating this game like a coinflip is overlooking the fact that it's a bullpen game for the Rays... a day after their bullpen pitched 11 innings. I guess this is a contrarian take, but I believe that will present a challenge for them!
yes, thanks. getting ahead of myself.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Oct 11, 2021 13:40:02 GMT -5
Thanks to a kind friend, I got to watch the game after all. And what a game it was!! Eovaldi was great although I wouldn't have minded seeing him go longer. The problem is when you go with too many relievers one of them is bound to have a bad day. Perhaps Cora is saving him for a relief appearance in Game 5 and that's why he pulled him early? I wasn't overly thrilled with Cora, as much as I like him, particularly in the 8th inning. I can't for the life of me figure why he had Robles face Arozarena with 2 outs and the tying run on 3rd when he could have a) gone to Whitlock or b) simply walked him to face Kiermeier. I get that you don't want to put the go ahead run on base and Kiermier is a lefty, but still, you can't let Arozarena beat you. The difference on offense between the two is huge. That was a mistake facing him. The other issue isn't from this game but rather from pitching Pivetta longer in Game 1 than was necessary. Now after his heroics, Pivetta has over 140 pitches in a 4 day stretch, which is too many. I hope it doesn't wipe him out should they advance. I would think he's not available the rest of the series. I did appreciate Cora not turning to Perez in the 12th inning when I thought he might. That 13th was crazy. The Red Sox caught a similar break to the break they got in Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS when Tony Clark's ground rule double would have broke a 4-4 tie in the 9th but even though Sierra would have scored, the ball bounced into the stands for a ground rule double. That one was obvious. This one....I had no idea. I mean what would have stopped Renfroe from using his hands as a tennis racket and batting the ball over the wall once it bounced rather than trying to field it? Obviously the ball hitting him on the ricochet off the wall was unintentional but if it didn't hit off him it would have stayed in play and scored the go-ahead run. So it's like he got rewarded for his having the ball accidentally hit him. Strange rule. Kind of the baseball version of the tuck rule? The Rays got screwed out of a run although the umps got it right based on the rules in the books, so I was really glad that Christian Vazquez hit a 2 run HR. The lasting memory might be that wacky play and I'm sure people will forget, but the Sox would have won the game anyways when Vazquez hit a 2 run shot. I think he would have hit it either way? I mean, the Rays must have been deflated when they didn't score. So maybe that showed up in the bottom half of the inning? We'll never know for sure. All I do know was that was one helluva huge HR by Vazquez. Something about Sox catchers walking off games in extra innings. (Fisk HR, Salty single, and now Vazquez homer). I hope the Sox can finish off the Rays tomorrow. I hope E-Rod can bounce back and that the pen isn't too spent. They should be fine there. But the Rays are probably stuck starting Wacha tomorrow and will probably follow up with McHugh. Hope the Sox smash Wacha like they did in Game 6 of the 2013 World Series. Great victory. They have the opportunity to close this out tomorrow. They can do it. They just have to make it happen. I had an issue with Cora in the 8th inning as well. Although I will admit that his moves almost always seem to work. i was expecting him to start Whitlock in the 8th inning with the goal of having him pitch a 2 inning save. This would have saved Pivetta for today's game. Moreover, I think Whitlock could have pitched 2 innings. I understand there might be something behind the scenes that I wa not aware of that Cora knew about that would cause him not to try that. But today I read somewhere that perhaps Robles was bailing some kind of illness last night. That would seem to make trying to use Whitlock for a 2 inning save seem even more like the best way to proceed.
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