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Boston Celtics 2021-2022 Season
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 30, 2021 15:14:34 GMT -5
Just reading here and there on the web today, and listening to some things - seems like there is building pressure to start trading - Jaylen for Simmons? Schroeder for who knows what
If the team keeps losing - and looking bad doing it - watch out...the changes will come.
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Post by rminns10 on Dec 30, 2021 16:21:59 GMT -5
Brad is a grit and grind coach, look at his teams at Butler and his early success with the Celtics. The roster additions this year leaned toward building a strong defensive team and hiring Ime in theory was to put a top notch defensive squad together. The issue i see is the indifference of Tatum. He gives off the air of someone who is too cool. His game and demeanor are peak Carmelo Anthony(this is not a compliment).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 31, 2021 8:11:14 GMT -5
Sorry, but trying to put last season entirely on Kemba is silly. It was a cacophony of issues - Kemba, Tatum’s issues with COVID, the lack of an offseason for guys to get healthy/better, etc. But we’ve seen the roster overhauled, the coaching staff turn over, and the same problems persist. The only constants here are Tatum, Jaylen, and Smart. It’s time to change that. We started 8-3, then went 28-33 after Kemba Walker came back. Reports he blew up the lockeroom, which Brad has confirmed. Blake Griffin got the same reports after his buyout to stay away. Certainly not the only issue, yet it's what we are seeing right now no? Something you can't explain, yet something is just off. Add in every player is basically playing worse than last year besides Grant Williams. Who else are you going to blame? The team doesn't play better with no Tatum or Brown. There's no they play better team ball without Irving type crap. If you think this is last year when it's confirmed the coach lost the lockeroom, why can't that be this year's problem? With the cause instead of Walker blowing crap up because his career as a superstar was over, it's just an inexperienced coach? By all means trade Smart, he's part of the problem given how Ime uses him. First time in his career he's played 100% PG and you see why. Any hope we had that giving him a starting job would make him better is gone. Nevermind just highlighted by who Ime also plays with him. Do you agree with starting Robert Williams, Horford and Smart? This isn't a perfect team, yet it's a deep team. Yet Ime won't use the depth. I still say pick a big, start Tatum at PF unless you face one of the few teams that actually play big. Then try some combos that actually make sense, like I really liked Richardson and Schroder the one game we got to see them. Make Pritchard the PG with Smart at SG. I wouldn't bitch about starting Nesmith to add shooting. Say Robert Williams, Tatum, Brown, Richardson and Schroder. Second unit of Horford, Smart, Pritchard, one of Tatum or Brown and insert one of Grant Williams, Nesmith, Langford, etc based on matchup. That's not a perfect team, that's not a true championship contender, yet that's a top 4 team in my book. Work on small ball units with Grant and Juan, something Ime completely stopped after trying it against the Raptors that were playing the biggest most athletic top three in the league. These are just examples, you can mix and match in many different ways given this teams depth. Yet you need a coach who can use it. Not Robert Williams, Horford, Tatum, Brown and Smart. With a small rotation of Schroder, Grant and Langford with no wholesale changes. There's a reason coaches have regular season and post season rotations, Ime hasn't even figured that out yet. He needs to go study Bill and how he adjusts to his roster to get the most out of it. Ime is like the exact opposite of that. He's the guy who would try and use Cam Newton like he was Brady, instead of changing the offense around Newtons strengths and becoming a running team.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 31, 2021 8:13:19 GMT -5
Just reading here and there on the web today, and listening to some things - seems like there is building pressure to start trading - Jaylen for Simmons? Schroeder for who knows what If the team keeps losing - and looking bad doing it - watch out...the changes will come. I'm down I would love Robert Williams, Horford, Tatum, Smart and Simmons. 🤯
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Post by jmei on Dec 31, 2021 10:29:43 GMT -5
If the same underperformance is happening two years in a row despite different coaches and different role players, chances are that the issue is with the core. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are players who, at this point in their careers, are not capable of making their teammates better. They both like the ball in their hands and rely too much on iso ball while lacking court vision and passing instincts (especially Brown, who once again has more turnovers than assists). Combine that with defensive inconsistency and weird locker room vibes and I’m ready to start seriously thinking about breaking them apart (which really means thinking about trading Brown). I really like Brown as a player and as a person but it’s become increasingly clear that he’s a poor fit with Tatum. The juice has to be worth the squeeze, and there are only a handful of players I’d consider (not Simmons, not Beal, not Fox, not a quarter for two dimes and a nickel type trades, but someone like Lillard), but it’s no longer out of the question.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 31, 2021 11:44:06 GMT -5
Sorry, but trying to put last season entirely on Kemba is silly. It was a cacophony of issues - Kemba, Tatum’s issues with COVID, the lack of an offseason for guys to get healthy/better, etc. But we’ve seen the roster overhauled, the coaching staff turn over, and the same problems persist. The only constants here are Tatum, Jaylen, and Smart. It’s time to change that. We started 8-3, then went 28-33 after Kemba Walker came back. Reports he blew up the lockeroom, which Brad has confirmed. Blake Griffin got the same reports after his buyout to stay away. Certainly not the only issue, yet it's what we are seeing right now no? Something you can't explain, yet something is just off. Add in every player is basically playing worse than last year besides Grant Williams. Who else are you going to blame? The team doesn't play better with no Tatum or Brown. There's no they play better team ball without Irving type crap. If you think this is last year when it's confirmed the coach lost the lockeroom, why can't that be this year's problem? With the cause instead of Walker blowing crap up because his career as a superstar was over, it's just an inexperienced coach? By all means trade Smart, he's part of the problem given how Ime uses him. First time in his career he's played 100% PG and you see why. Any hope we had that giving him a starting job would make him better is gone. Nevermind just highlighted by who Ime also plays with him. Do you agree with starting Robert Williams, Horford and Smart? This isn't a perfect team, yet it's a deep team. Yet Ime won't use the depth. I still say pick a big, start Tatum at PF unless you face one of the few teams that actually play big. Then try some combos that actually make sense, like I really liked Richardson and Schroder the one game we got to see them. Make Pritchard the PG with Smart at SG. I wouldn't bitch about starting Nesmith to add shooting. Say Robert Williams, Tatum, Brown, Richardson and Schroder. Second unit of Horford, Smart, Pritchard, one of Tatum or Brown and insert one of Grant Williams, Nesmith, Langford, etc based on matchup. That's not a perfect team, that's not a true championship contender, yet that's a top 4 team in my book. Work on small ball units with Grant and Juan, something Ime completely stopped after trying it against the Raptors that were playing the biggest most athletic top three in the league. These are just examples, you can mix and match in many different ways given this teams depth. Yet you need a coach who can use it. Not Robert Williams, Horford, Tatum, Brown and Smart. With a small rotation of Schroder, Grant and Langford with no wholesale changes. There's a reason coaches have regular season and post season rotations, Ime hasn't even figured that out yet. He needs to go study Bill and how he adjusts to his roster to get the most out of it. Ime is like the exact opposite of that. He's the guy who would try and use Cam Newton like he was Brady, instead of changing the offense around Newtons strengths and becoming a running team. This is a poor example of trying to make a data-driven argument. 8-3 is the definition of a small sample size, so trying to do a before-and-after comparison with that is not really doable - especially if you’re going to conveniently ignore the entire 2019-20 season. The notion that Kemba “blew up” the locker room is also ridiculous. He’s always been one of the most likable, even-tempered people in the league. In fact, I’ve seen more reports about Brad being overly hard on Kemba but not holding some of the other players (aka Smart) accountable for the same things. This is not meant to be a defense of Kemba - I fully supported the Celtics trading him for Horford - but trying to blame all of last season’s failures on him makes no sense. That argument looks even sillier given the fact that the same trends and issues have persisted this season or even gotten worse.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 31, 2021 12:55:29 GMT -5
Sorry, but trying to put last season entirely on Kemba is silly. It was a cacophony of issues - Kemba, Tatum’s issues with COVID, the lack of an offseason for guys to get healthy/better, etc. But we’ve seen the roster overhauled, the coaching staff turn over, and the same problems persist. The only constants here are Tatum, Jaylen, and Smart. It’s time to change that. Or possibly another constant is that they haven't had good coaching despite the change.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 31, 2021 15:46:49 GMT -5
We started 8-3, then went 28-33 after Kemba Walker came back. Reports he blew up the lockeroom, which Brad has confirmed. Blake Griffin got the same reports after his buyout to stay away. Certainly not the only issue, yet it's what we are seeing right now no? Something you can't explain, yet something is just off. Add in every player is basically playing worse than last year besides Grant Williams. Who else are you going to blame? The team doesn't play better with no Tatum or Brown. There's no they play better team ball without Irving type crap. If you think this is last year when it's confirmed the coach lost the lockeroom, why can't that be this year's problem? With the cause instead of Walker blowing crap up because his career as a superstar was over, it's just an inexperienced coach? By all means trade Smart, he's part of the problem given how Ime uses him. First time in his career he's played 100% PG and you see why. Any hope we had that giving him a starting job would make him better is gone. Nevermind just highlighted by who Ime also plays with him. Do you agree with starting Robert Williams, Horford and Smart? This isn't a perfect team, yet it's a deep team. Yet Ime won't use the depth. I still say pick a big, start Tatum at PF unless you face one of the few teams that actually play big. Then try some combos that actually make sense, like I really liked Richardson and Schroder the one game we got to see them. Make Pritchard the PG with Smart at SG. I wouldn't bitch about starting Nesmith to add shooting. Say Robert Williams, Tatum, Brown, Richardson and Schroder. Second unit of Horford, Smart, Pritchard, one of Tatum or Brown and insert one of Grant Williams, Nesmith, Langford, etc based on matchup. That's not a perfect team, that's not a true championship contender, yet that's a top 4 team in my book. Work on small ball units with Grant and Juan, something Ime completely stopped after trying it against the Raptors that were playing the biggest most athletic top three in the league. These are just examples, you can mix and match in many different ways given this teams depth. Yet you need a coach who can use it. Not Robert Williams, Horford, Tatum, Brown and Smart. With a small rotation of Schroder, Grant and Langford with no wholesale changes. There's a reason coaches have regular season and post season rotations, Ime hasn't even figured that out yet. He needs to go study Bill and how he adjusts to his roster to get the most out of it. Ime is like the exact opposite of that. He's the guy who would try and use Cam Newton like he was Brady, instead of changing the offense around Newtons strengths and becoming a running team. This is a poor example of trying to make a data-driven argument. 8-3 is the definition of a small sample size, so trying to do a before-and-after comparison with that is not really doable - especially if you’re going to conveniently ignore the entire 2019-20 season. The notion that Kemba “blew up” the locker room is also ridiculous. He’s always been one of the most likable, even-tempered people in the league. In fact, I’ve seen more reports about Brad being overly hard on Kemba but not holding some of the other players (aka Smart) accountable for the same things. This is not meant to be a defense of Kemba - I fully supported the Celtics trading him for Horford - but trying to blame all of last season’s failures on him makes no sense. That argument looks even sillier given the fact that the same trends and issues have persisted this season or even gotten worse. Sure it is a small sample, yet that's when they changed. Add in Kemba getting Benched 14 games into his Knicks career and I think it makes for a much better case. That report was from Kemba Walker, he felt he was being picked on. It's comical no? Shouldn't Kemba Walker be picked on for his D more than Smart? I'll call it unfair when Kemba Walker is anywhere near Smart level on D. That's how petty he got last year, yeah he once was something else, yet the end of his superstar days changed him. 2020 proves that Tatum and Brown can play good efficient team ball when given the right pieces, just like 2018. It's all about having the right PG with them because they lack playmaking skills. You need a guy who can at minimum run a team and help create spacing for them. Not a Kyrie Irving who shots a team out of the playoffs and then thinks he should have taken more shots. It's why Harden is now the PG and Irving is the SG. It's all about the PG or someone that can run an offense. I guess you can say they've changed, yet I can't until they get the right mix around them with a coach that runs a team ball approach. Right now every team dares our shooters to beat them and the whole defense is about stopping Brown and Tatum, with no one to help them get easier looks.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 31, 2021 15:59:30 GMT -5
You’re literally just making stuff up about Kemba. It became a bad basketball fit but he’s neither petty nor a bad teammate.
I don’t think Jaylen and Tatum are entirely to blame for everything - they haven’t had to best players around them the past couple years, and the coaching this season has been straight up bad. But it feels like they deserve some responsibility for the last couple seasons, particularly when you look at the lack of ball movement, inconsistent effort, and flat out bad leadership.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892
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Post by cdj on Dec 31, 2021 17:42:17 GMT -5
Refreshing game today
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 31, 2021 17:42:28 GMT -5
This team! Win the likely losses, lose the creampuff games. Great win, big last surprise for 2021!!!
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Jan 1, 2022 8:01:11 GMT -5
Evidence that we need less iso and more offense through Timelord, awesome game.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 1, 2022 21:05:44 GMT -5
Evidence that we need less iso and more offense through Timelord, awesome game. Big test when Tatum returns, let's see if they can keep themselves from f*ckballing again.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 2, 2022 18:54:09 GMT -5
Ime abandoning Pritchard again. Guy is a bozo of a coach.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 2, 2022 19:51:38 GMT -5
Working hard...and succeeding...in playing below their weak competition. Infuriating team.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 2, 2022 20:12:47 GMT -5
Enough. Blow this mess of a team up.
Took them 4 quarters to wake up, but they will squeak out the win.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Jan 3, 2022 4:47:40 GMT -5
Yeah it was ugly as hell but at least we actually fought and came back in the 4th quarter and won.
Need to start winning the games that we should win. Big win without Timelord.
Ime really needs to wake up and stop playing Smart and Schröder together.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 3, 2022 9:58:42 GMT -5
A win’s a win, but the same bad habits almost cost them against a team that should be easily beaten. They continue to make it extra hard on themselves without showing any progress for improvement.
I cannot get over how quickly Ime has abandoned Pritchard. This isn’t college, where you can play guys most of the game every single night. He really has been dreadful this year, and the lack of development for the young players is entirely on him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 3, 2022 12:05:30 GMT -5
I don't get almost anything Ime does. I used this as a bar game given Cole Anthony and Suggs were out for the Magic, leaving a rookie in Wagner as there best player. They failed horrible, it took a magical game from Brown to even get a win.
These are the games you play the whole bench. The more players you give chances too, the better chance you find guys having games when they have it. I feel lucky Pritchard even got 13 minutes, if Langford wasn't out he likely gets almost no minutes. Ime is just so rigid, no matter what happens he still wants to role out the same lineups. No matter the team or matchup, Horford or Williams out Grant starts, Tatum or Brown out he starts Schroder. Fully healthy it Robert, Horford, Tatum, Brown and Smart, with Richardson, Schroder, Grant and some Langford. Type of crap a new coach might do second half of his first season after he gets to know the team. Ime is like a Baseball manager that doesn't know how to manage a bullpen, he just runs them into the ground. Stevens could have good defensive teams not by just playing his best D guys big minutes, yet with matchups and bringing in fresh engery guys.
Stevens needs to talk with him or force his hands with trades, this is just hard to watch.
Rumors Lakers are interested in Smart, they can't trade a first till 2027, yet that's perfect as long as the protections are favorable. I'm really starting to get on board with just trade Horford, Smart, Schroder and maybe even Richardson. Get back young players, play your young guys and at minimum develop talent if this is just a learning season for our coach. Watching Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard and Robert Williams play a bunch of minutes gives me more reason to watch than this crap.
I'm interested in what happened between Stevens and Ime. Is Stevens surprised by this? You don't build a team like he did if he knew it would be used this way.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 3, 2022 12:14:39 GMT -5
Is there any chance Ime's hand IS being forced by Brad? Given that they are likely a non-contender, is it possible he's being told to "showcase" Schroder and Richardson at the expense of the younger players?
I'm not trying to let Ime off the hook (he's clearly struggling with being a 1st time HC). Just not sure if this type of thing would happen.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 3, 2022 12:28:29 GMT -5
I would think Stevens is trying to stay completely away from how Ime coaches. Not a good look for the former coach to be telling the new one what to do so early in the season. You usually don't showcase players till the last 5-10 games before the trade deadline. I just don’t think that's what's going on, if Stevens was telling Ime who to play wouldn't we also being seeing more Stevens like lineups and rotations? If that was true, shame on Stevens. Yet I actually think he needs to start getting slightly involved. Just throw around ideas. That relationship could be great if Ime could learn from Stevens.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 3, 2022 12:33:22 GMT -5
I would think Stevens is trying to stay completely away from how Ime coaches. Not a good look for the former coach to be telling the new one what to do so early in the season. You usually don't showcase players till the last 5-10 games before the trade deadline. I just don’t think that's what's going on, if Stevens was telling Ime who to play wouldn't we also being seeing more Stevens like lineups and rotations? If that was true, shame on Stevens. Yet I actually think he needs to start getting slightly involved. Just throw around ideas. That relationship could be great if Ime could learn from Stevens. That's fair.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 3, 2022 13:42:36 GMT -5
This years draft will be interesting since we know nothing about what to expect from Brad. As a Duke fan, Wendell Moore Jr has finally come alive and is a very interesting prospect in the middle of the first round.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 3, 2022 17:33:53 GMT -5
Can we just trade for Terrence Ross already? He always kills us lol.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2022 19:00:54 GMT -5
That was a ridiculous game that they had no business winning last night
Thank you Jaylen
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