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2021-2022 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by incandenza on Mar 19, 2022 10:44:59 GMT -5
So here's my gut check on that Correa contract: if the Red Sox had signed Story to that deal, I... think I would be totally fine with it? I'd like it pretty well, actually. And Correa is better than Story. Basically Correa got the AAV he was looking for, but for only 3 seasons. Opt outs or no, I just don't see how that is a good deal for him. For Boras, on the other hand...
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 19, 2022 10:54:24 GMT -5
So here's my gut check on that Correa contract: if the Red Sox had signed Story to that deal, I... think I would be totally fine with it? I'd like it pretty well, actually. And Correa is better than Story. Basically Correa got the AAV he was looking for, but for only 3 seasons. Opt outs or no, I just don't see how that is a good deal for him. For Boras, on the other hand...
Nah. It’s 100% a player friendly deal. And why I’m about the Sox not being the one to give it to him. Unless he gets injured and misses the majority of the season it’s going to be a one year deal. He will 10000% opt out next off-season
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Post by GyIantosca on Mar 19, 2022 10:58:18 GMT -5
I saw a good Twitter from a forget who, but except for Freeman all the other top free agents were signed by non playoff teams.
Maybe it will change but very interesting.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 19, 2022 11:00:14 GMT -5
So here's my gut check on that Correa contract: if the Red Sox had signed Story to that deal, I... think I would be totally fine with it? I'd like it pretty well, actually. And Correa is better than Story. Basically Correa got the AAV he was looking for, but for only 3 seasons. Opt outs or no, I just don't see how that is a good deal for him. For Boras, on the other hand...
Paying Story $35m seems dumb to me so I wouldn’t be ok with that when the player can opt out whenever he wants .
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Post by manfred on Mar 19, 2022 11:04:21 GMT -5
I saw a good Twitter from a forget who, but except for Freeman all the other top free agents were signed by non playoff teams. Maybe it will change but very interesting. You mean teams that didn’t make it last year? That is a good thing for baseball, I think, because teams like the Twins and Mariners look like they are making big pushes. This could be a really exciting season with a LOT of strong teams.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 19, 2022 11:16:17 GMT -5
So here's my gut check on that Correa contract: if the Red Sox had signed Story to that deal, I... think I would be totally fine with it? I'd like it pretty well, actually. And Correa is better than Story. Basically Correa got the AAV he was looking for, but for only 3 seasons. Opt outs or no, I just don't see how that is a good deal for him. For Boras, on the other hand...
Nah. It’s 100% a player friendly deal. And why I’m about the Sox not being the one to give it to him. Unless he gets injured and misses the majority of the season it’s going to be a one year deal. He will 10000% opt out next off-season Agree he'll opt out unless he gets hurt, but a) he might get hurt, and b) in the best case scenario he only gets the sort of AAV he wanted on a 10-year deal... in the first year. Which is the year teams are, theoretically, paying the most for.
To put it another way: if he opts out, it'll presumably be because he performs as expected in 2022. He's projected for ~5 WAR, which is worth $40 million+. So he'll be underpaid for his age-27 season - his first year as a free agent, the single most valuable year of his entire career, from his perspective - and then he'll be re-entering the FA market a year older.
To put it a third way: this is very similar to Trevor Bauer's deal (3/102, with opt outs after the second and third year). Correa gets one additional opt out. But do we really think Correa shouldn't have done much better than Bauer?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 19, 2022 11:55:04 GMT -5
So here's my gut check on that Correa contract: if the Red Sox had signed Story to that deal, I... think I would be totally fine with it? I'd like it pretty well, actually. And Correa is better than Story. Basically Correa got the AAV he was looking for, but for only 3 seasons. Opt outs or no, I just don't see how that is a good deal for him. For Boras, on the other hand...
Nah. It’s 100% a player friendly deal. And why I’m about the Sox not being the one to give it to him. Unless he gets injured and misses the majority of the season it’s going to be a one year deal. He will 10000% opt out next off-season It's a good deal for the Twins. They rent Correa. At worst case scenario they get 3 years of broken down injured Correa. Hefty contract, sure. Long term albatross..no. Or if Correia plays well and the Twins compete it'll be Correa that's a big part as to why. If he opts out so be it. They got to have a playoff type season with Correa. If Correa plays well and the Twins flop, well they have one helluva rental trade chip to deal at the deadline, one that should fetch them at least one really good prospect. So while Correa gets what he wants the Twins make out great too in this. My guess is that he won't even last the year on Minnesota, that at some point in July, he'll get dealt and the Twins will reap the benefit of renting an asset.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 19, 2022 12:15:05 GMT -5
Don't forget that Correa switched agencies during the offseason. His previous agency gets a cut of what he gets paid on this deal, but if he opts out after year 1, Boras gets the full cut of his next deal. How the hell is he acting in Correa's best interest at that point?
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Post by threeifbaerga on Mar 19, 2022 12:26:40 GMT -5
Don't forget that Correa switched agencies during the offseason. His previous agency gets a cut of what he gets paid on this deal, but if he opts out after year 1, Boras gets the full cut of his next deal. How the hell is he acting in Correa's best interest at that point?
Don't get the wrong idea - this is still a good position for Correa to be in as outlined by redsox04071318champs above. Correa get paid big, has a little insurance, and can re-enter what may be a healthier market for mega deals in a year. I know there are a lot of shortstops potentially entering the market next year, so he could always opt in and enter the market again at age 28 and get another huge deal.
Flexibility isn't just for Chaim, it's also a good thing for Carlos here too.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 19, 2022 12:39:54 GMT -5
How the hell is he acting in Correa's best interest at that point?
Don't get the wrong idea - this is still a good position for Correa to be in as outlined by redsox04071318champs above. Correa get paid big, has a little insurance, and can re-enter what may be a healthier market for mega deals in a year. I know there are a lot of shortstops potentially entering the market next year, so he could always opt in and enter the market again at age 28 and get another huge deal.
Flexibility isn't just for Chaim, it's also a good thing for Carlos here too.
Or his back flares up for the 100th time and he plays 80 games and loses out on $200M which Boras isn't going to help him with. It just seems like an obvious conflict of interest, kind of like real estate agents pushing you to buy houses that their agency is representing (before the insanity of today's real estate market).
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Mar 19, 2022 12:49:58 GMT -5
Probably getting Story to the Yankees or Astros today. After he signs Jorge Soler is the last notable free agent out there. Meanwhile Boston is on day 9 of We Like Our Guys.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 19, 2022 12:57:57 GMT -5
Probably getting Story to the Yankees or Astros today. After he signs Jorge Soler is the last notable free agent out there. Meanwhile Boston is on day 9 of We Like Our Guys. I guess that's another good reason to lock the other thread. There really isnt much in the way of newly signed Red Sox free agents to talk about. They made 3 small additions with Wacha, Strahm, and Diekman, and maybe 1 bigger addition with Paxton. 100 pages of very little to sink your teeth into, just mostly anticipation, thanks to the lockout, and frustration as virtually everybody else went somewhere else. I still think the Sox will land Tommy Pham so there is that.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 19, 2022 13:00:37 GMT -5
Don't get the wrong idea - this is still a good position for Correa to be in as outlined by redsox04071318champs above. Correa get paid big, has a little insurance, and can re-enter what may be a healthier market for mega deals in a year. I know there are a lot of shortstops potentially entering the market next year, so he could always opt in and enter the market again at age 28 and get another huge deal.
Flexibility isn't just for Chaim, it's also a good thing for Carlos here too.
Or his back flares up for the 100th time and he plays 80 games and loses out on $200M which Boras isn't going to help him with. It just seems like an obvious conflict of interest, kind of like real estate agents pushing you to buy houses that their agency is representing (before the insanity of today's real estate market). Yeah, the more I think about this the more I find it sort of scandalous. This is just not a good deal for Correa. And:
-He's the one major free agent who decided to go the short-years/high-AAV route. But: -It's not even that high an AAV - only one million more than Trevor Bauer. And: -It's the one situation where the agent has an incentive to structure the deal in this way. Plus: -Boras has an incentive to make it as unfavorable for Correa as possible so as to increase the odds he opts out.
Normally the interests of the player and the agent basically align. But that wasn't the case in this situation. And it is very hard to not see this contract as a reflection of that.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 19, 2022 13:02:05 GMT -5
(Sorry your post got deleted, Eric. I've had a few times where I'd written out lengthy, thoughtful things and then gotten logged out. It is very frustrating!) Yeah, I know folks can empathize in general ... but I'm guessing that never happened to your first post in 3 1/2 months! Enough meta discussion about moderating. If you don't like how we moderate this forum, please feel free peruse the other options out there, and we'll happily welcome you back when you see the other cesspools options. I understand the frustration over a garbage thread, but the way to deal with that in moderation is to threaten folks with post deletion, and then follow through, correct? Not to close a live thread purely over quality issues.
Folks may have noticed that I sometimes bother to cut and paste an answer from one thread to another, to get it back where it belongs after topic drift. I'm not sure anyone else does that! I gave some thought to where to post this time, as I always do. There were two position left on the MLB bench to be filled, likely via free agency. (There still are.) Closing the thread was objectively a mistake.
But yeah, one mistake does not sully what remains as the most awesome place for Red Sox discussion. Nobody's perfect, nor even Alex Cora.
Anyway, the main reason for this post is to let folks know that I'm going to post my conclusions, but not the extensive rationales behind them, in the spring training thread, where they will of course be completely off topic. That's something I have time for!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 19, 2022 13:07:58 GMT -5
Or his back flares up for the 100th time and he plays 80 games and loses out on $200M which Boras isn't going to help him with. It just seems like an obvious conflict of interest, kind of like real estate agents pushing you to buy houses that their agency is representing (before the insanity of today's real estate market). Yeah, the more I think about this the more I find it sort of scandalous. This is just not a good deal for Correa. And: -He's the one major free agent who decided to go the short-years/high-AAV route. But: -It's not even that high an AAV - only one million more than Trevor Bauer. And: -It's the one situation where the agent has an incentive to structure the deal in this way. Plus: -Boras has an incentive to make it as unfavorable for Correa as possible so as to increase the odds he opts out. Normally the interests of the player and the agent basically align. But that wasn't the case in this situation. And it is very hard to not see this contract as a reflection of that.
Its Boras being Boras, in Correa's ear telling him after he wins the MVP award this year he'll get him a 12 year 450 million dollar deal next year. Boras knows the market is very shallow next year, so Correa opts out and might be able to really cash in, which is plausible. I think that's how he sold Correa on it.
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Post by taiwansox on Mar 19, 2022 13:17:47 GMT -5
Yeah, the more I think about this the more I find it sort of scandalous. This is just not a good deal for Correa. And: -He's the one major free agent who decided to go the short-years/high-AAV route. But: -It's not even that high an AAV - only one million more than Trevor Bauer. And: -It's the one situation where the agent has an incentive to structure the deal in this way. Plus: -Boras has an incentive to make it as unfavorable for Correa as possible so as to increase the odds he opts out. Normally the interests of the player and the agent basically align. But that wasn't the case in this situation. And it is very hard to not see this contract as a reflection of that.
Its Boras being Boras, in Correa's ear telling him after he wins the MVP award this year he'll get him a 12 year 450 million dollar deal next year. Boras knows the market is very shallow next year, so Correa opts out and might be able to really cash in, which is plausible. I think that's how he sold Correa on it. Dodgers, MFY, and Sox should all have payroll to go after him, so it’s definitely plausible that’s the play. Having Story, Semien, Seager in the same free agent class didn’t help
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Post by scorpionix on Mar 19, 2022 14:07:55 GMT -5
C- Gary Sanchez RD 1B- Miguel Sano RD 2B- Jorge Polanco RD 3B- Gio Urshella COL SS- Carlos Correa PR
there only Spanish will be spoken
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Post by lonborgski on Mar 19, 2022 15:16:46 GMT -5
. . . Anyway, the main reason for this post is to let folks know that I'm going to post my conclusions, but not the extensive rationales behind them, in the spring training thread, . . .
Now I keep refreshing the Spring Training thread . . .
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 19, 2022 16:45:16 GMT -5
We closed the Free Agency thread because too many of the same posters were posting too many of the same posts, pages and pages of complaining without adding any insight or humor. We allowed it to go on for much of the winter because there was little baseball news and therefore wasn't much to talk about. That is not the case now. This repetitive and poor-quality posting will not spread into this and other threads. Consider this a formal warning to all. (Sorry your post got deleted, Eric. I've had a few times where I'd written out lengthy, thoughtful things and then gotten logged out. It is very frustrating!) Pro tip: If you find a post stretching into a third or fourth paragraph, cut and paste it into a text file and then take your time without worrying something funky is going to happen to your connection.
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Post by chr31ter on Mar 19, 2022 18:13:26 GMT -5
WTF???
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Mar 19, 2022 18:24:51 GMT -5
That’s wild
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 19, 2022 18:37:25 GMT -5
We have asked in the past, and will no doubt in the future, that posters do what's mentioned above. You can always re-edit a thread.
Having the same people filling threads over and over, often with sizable space gaps, can make them unreadable. The result is closed threads and we lose ideas and comments from people such as Eric.
We'll all try to be careful, and please be thoughtful with your posts.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Mar 19, 2022 18:51:28 GMT -5
Marlins signed Jorge soler 3 years 36 mil. Not a terrible contract I don't think but not sad he's off the board at all.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 19, 2022 19:12:45 GMT -5
Marlins signed Jorge soler 3 years 36 mil. Not a terrible contract I don't think but not sad he's off the board at all. Opt outs after years 1 and 2. Meh.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Mar 19, 2022 19:27:46 GMT -5
Don't get the wrong idea - this is still a good position for Correa to be in as outlined by redsox04071318champs above. Correa get paid big, has a little insurance, and can re-enter what may be a healthier market for mega deals in a year. I know there are a lot of shortstops potentially entering the market next year, so he could always opt in and enter the market again at age 28 and get another huge deal.
Flexibility isn't just for Chaim, it's also a good thing for Carlos here too.
Or his back flares up for the 100th time and he plays 80 games and loses out on $200M which Boras isn't going to help him with. It just seems like an obvious conflict of interest, kind of like real estate agents pushing you to buy houses that their agency is representing (before the insanity of today's real estate market). Then I suppose the question you have to ask is "was that extra $200m really out there?" The post above showed that the Astros were out, the Yankees are cutting payroll, the Red Sox aren't spending, especially on a Ss, the Phillies have spent, the Dodgers don't need a big money SS, etc. If his back flares up he opts in at close to$30m for the next year and tries again. If it doesn't he re-enters the market at 27 and tries again. You don think the Red Sox would jump at him when Xander opts out? Edit 3/20 - I think the Story contract only solidifies my point that A. the extra $200m wasn't out there and B. The flexibility to hit the market again in 1/2/3 years will benefit Correa all while he makes pretty dang good money.
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