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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Nov 15, 2021 15:22:45 GMT -5
No chance this ownership will spend 25 aav million on a pitcher anymore. None. Scherzer is staying out west.
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 15, 2021 15:27:56 GMT -5
I doubt Scherzer or Verlander go for less then 25 and Scherzer will definitely go for more.
Having said that could the ERod signing have a negative effect on other FA pitchers asking price. I think most would consider it on the low side.
The more I process this news the more confused I get about the direction the Sox go in this offseason. Just not really making sense to me right at the moment and I wonder what is on their minds.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 15, 2021 15:28:55 GMT -5
No chance this ownership will spend 25 aav million on a pitcher anymore. None. Scherzer is staying out west. I think that is probably true, however I am sure the Sox will be sniffin' around and you just never know how these things play out.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 15, 2021 15:29:07 GMT -5
To your point, I wonder if he felt so slighted by their offer (Speier said they were very far apart) that, like Jon Lester, he basically said "Screw it, peace out"? seriously dude, enough with this stuff.. That was a prior FO, and really not everyone wants to live their entire life in the pressure cooker that is Boston The more elite the athlete, the more fragile the ego. We don't know what the offer is, but we do know, at least according to Alex Speier, they were far apart, and Sox never went back for another offer before he hit the market. And, if anything, this front office, so far, has proved itself far more frugal than previous FOs under this ownership. Also, if Bloom comes from "The Tampa School," then, as many of us remember from The Athletic piece earlier this year, they have a reputation of "being ruthless" once they set an internal value of a player. Many assume that will change this off-season - and I am hopeful this is the case. But until that shows itself, I remain skeptical. Actions, not words.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 15, 2021 15:30:49 GMT -5
I doubt Scherzer or Verlander go for less then 25 and Scherzer will definitely go for more. Having said that could the ERod signing have a negative effect on other FA pitchers asking price. I think most would consider it on the low side. The more I process this news the more confused I get about the direction the Sox go in this offseason. Just not really making sense to me right at the moment and I wonder what is on their minds. Give me Thor on make-good 2 year deal with a team option for 3 more.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 15, 2021 15:33:15 GMT -5
seriously dude, enough with this stuff.. That was a prior FO, and really not everyone wants to live their entire life in the pressure cooker that is Boston The more elite the athlete, the more fragile the ego. We don't know what the offer is, but we do know, at least according to Alex Speier, they were far apart, and Sox never went back for another offer before he hit the market. And, if anything, this front office, so far, has proved itself far more frugal than previous FOs under this ownership. Also, if Bloom comes from "The Tampa School," then, as many of us remember from The Athletic piece earlier this year, they have a reputation of "being ruthless" once they set an internal value of a player. Many assume that will change this off-season - and I am hopeful this is the case. But until that shows itself, I remain skeptical. Actions, not words. so getting to the ALCS and almost to the WS this year does not mean anything for you? When literally everyone in baseball though this team would finish in the basement of the AL east? jeez
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Post by fenwaymabe on Nov 15, 2021 15:39:27 GMT -5
I love Rodon. My only concern is health. He was overworked in college at NC State and he's consistently had shoulder issue throughout his tenure in Chicago. Shoulder issues are much more concerning to me than elbow issues. In all my years as a baseball fan, can't really remember anyone with chronic shoulder issues that held up over the long haul. Also, don't forget he's repped by Boras, so he's definitely looking to cash in on a multi year deal. I think steady eddie will be missed.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 15, 2021 15:43:17 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm a little surprised he didn't just take the QO if he was willing to accept this deal. He'll be making $4 million less this season than he would've with the QO, and while he obviously gains some security he could've entered the market again next year, probably with better results under his belt and without the QO attached. This is where I was all along -- take a second walk year at $18.5m, in which he'd have a great chance of being as good or better than 2021 (which was not a "career year" by any stretch), then go into FA at 30 without a QO attached. I would think he could easily do much better than the remaining 4/$58.5m.
But a bird in the hand, and all that... $77m is a lot of dough and he'll have a chance to significantly add to that if he rocks the first two years and opts out/renegotiates.
Doesn't DET also have the old HOU manager? I wonder if that gives them a leg up on Correa...
Great day to be a Tigers fan.
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 15, 2021 15:47:19 GMT -5
No chance this ownership will spend 25 aav million on a pitcher anymore. None. Scherzer is staying out west. I disagree. How many teams win the World Series without having a true ace? I'm sure it happens but great pitching wins in October and that is the Sox aim. Who knows maybe that is why they let ERod go, they have their eyes set on a bigger prize. Either way I really hope your opinion isn't the case moving forward. I just don't think that meshes well with the strategy of being a WS contender every season. Unless they start trading the Yorkes, Mayers and Casas's from the farm system to land a top 10 pitching prospect or 2 how else are they going to get an ace.
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Post by soxinsf on Nov 15, 2021 15:48:07 GMT -5
I think steady eddie will be missed. I did not consider him to be steady anything. He was inconsistent from year to year and within the year. He was injured a lot and had as many boring and below par years as he had great years. That said, if he would have taken 3/50, then OK. But the opt out part of the deal if he is really good and the five years guaranteed if he is not, might scare a guy like Bloom. So now we get to see what the Bloom is really like when he has to build a rotation using both existing pieces and pieces from elsewhere. He is not beyond signing a good deal into strength and then dealing from strength to find balance and to fill holes. I would expect that the trade route is going to be important here, and all the more so if the FA availablity at the right price is not.
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 15, 2021 15:56:08 GMT -5
I doubt Scherzer or Verlander go for less then 25 and Scherzer will definitely go for more. Having said that could the ERod signing have a negative effect on other FA pitchers asking price. I think most would consider it on the low side. The more I process this news the more confused I get about the direction the Sox go in this offseason. Just not really making sense to me right at the moment and I wonder what is on their minds. Give me Thor on make-good 2 year deal with a team option for 3 more. I am a Thor fan also but what does that contract look like? He could be a 30m aav pitcher and he wants that upside also. So options for both the team and the player? I am on record as someone who is not afraid of the post TJ surgery guys. So many come back even stronger that it is just not a concern for me. Especially for a guy whose nickname is Thor because of his size and build. The man is a beast and is the body type that holds up thru the 30's like Verlander and Scherzer.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 15, 2021 16:01:12 GMT -5
Give me Thor on make-good 2 year deal with a team option for 3 more. I am a Thor fan also but what does that contract look like? He could be a 30m aav pitcher and he wants that upside also. So options for both the team and the player? I am on record as someone who is not afraid of the post TJ surgery guys. So many come back even stronger that it is just not a concern for me. Especially for a guy whose nickname is Thor because of his size and build. The man is a beast and is the body type that holds up thru the 30's like Verlander and Scherzer. Syndergaard should take the QO if you ask me any team would be crazy to offer him more than the value of the QO for multiple years.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 15, 2021 16:02:23 GMT -5
I don't see ownership/Chaim being cheap being the issue. They want to be like LAD and LAD isn't exactly pinching their pennies. I see them endorsing a shorter-term, higher AAV approach on established stars like Scherzer or Verlander or Kershaw... just like LAD did with Bauer. Proven commodity with more manageable risk. I think the previous dictum of "no FA pitchers over 30" will be tweaked to "no long-term FA deals for pitchers over 30."
What I definitely don't see is the kind of decade-long Cole/Stanton type of monstrosity that Cashman can't seem to resist. The Price ordeal likely weaned ownership off of those (although I still consider the Price deal a plus, given that he directly contributed to a title).
And seriously, how many of us here will look at a top 3 of
Sale Scherzer/Verlander/Kershaw Eovaldi
... and scream "I wish it was Sale-Eovaldi-ERod!"
Maybe passing on E-Rod was just Chaim biding his time on landing a much bigger fish... there are certainly more out there than in a typical winter.
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Post by manfred on Nov 15, 2021 16:25:18 GMT -5
I don't see ownership/Chaim being cheap being the issue. They want to be like LAD and LAD isn't exactly pinching their pennies. I see them endorsing a shorter-term, higher AAV approach on established stars like Scherzer or Verlander or Kershaw... just like LAD did with Bauer. Proven commodity with more manageable risk. I think the previous dictum of "no FA pitchers over 30" will be tweaked to "no long-term FA deals for pitchers over 30." What I definitely don't see is the kind of decade-long Cole/Stanton type of monstrosity that Cashman can't seem to resist. The Price ordeal likely weaned ownership off of those (although I still consider the Price deal a plus, given that he directly contributed to a title). And seriously, how many of us here will look at a top 3 of Sale Scherzer/Verlander/Kershaw Eovaldi ... and scream "I wish it was Sale-Eovaldi-ERod!" Maybe passing on E-Rod was just Chaim biding his time on landing a much bigger fish... there are certainly more out there than in a typical winter. I would if it is Kershaw. He is past it, fragile, and would not do well in the AL East.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 15, 2021 17:06:24 GMT -5
The more elite the athlete, the more fragile the ego. We don't know what the offer is, but we do know, at least according to Alex Speier, they were far apart, and Sox never went back for another offer before he hit the market. And, if anything, this front office, so far, has proved itself far more frugal than previous FOs under this ownership. Also, if Bloom comes from "The Tampa School," then, as many of us remember from The Athletic piece earlier this year, they have a reputation of "being ruthless" once they set an internal value of a player. Many assume that will change this off-season - and I am hopeful this is the case. But until that shows itself, I remain skeptical. Actions, not words. so getting to the ALCS and almost to the WS this year does not mean anything for you? When literally everyone in baseball though this team would finish in the basement of the AL east? jeez I mean, Ben Cherington won an WS and I still think he was a crap GM. So yeah, I am waiting to see what happens over the next 2-3 years. For all I know Henry and friends told him to stay under the lux tax forevah. So far what I've seen was: - 2019, a.k.a. "The Year of Crap." - 2020 a.k.a. "The Big Mulligan" for everyone - does not figure into the calculus. - 2021 a.k.a. "The Amazing Run," which was either a massive overachievement by the players, pure genius by Bloom or somewhere in between. The next 2 to 3 years will determine if I trust this guy or he's just another B.C. type. And yes, I'm skeptical by nature and try to avoid recency bias and blind faith in almost anything.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 15, 2021 17:08:14 GMT -5
I am a Thor fan also but what does that contract look like? He could be a 30m aav pitcher and he wants that upside also. So options for both the team and the player? I am on record as someone who is not afraid of the post TJ surgery guys. So many come back even stronger that it is just not a concern for me. Especially for a guy whose nickname is Thor because of his size and build. The man is a beast and is the body type that holds up thru the 30's like Verlander and Scherzer. Syndergaard should take the QO if you ask me any team would be crazy to offer him more than the value of the QO for multiple years. Exactly. Market inefficiency. Gotta roll the dice every once in a while. And if he proves out you're golden. If not, you blew $36-40M, which a big payroll/rich team can absorb periodically.
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Post by GyIantosca on Nov 15, 2021 17:13:43 GMT -5
I’m going to wait and see what Bloom has to offer. I agree they need to replace ERod. Please have an offer for Marcus .
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 15, 2021 17:14:35 GMT -5
I don't see ownership/Chaim being cheap being the issue. They want to be like LAD and LAD isn't exactly pinching their pennies. I see them endorsing a shorter-term, higher AAV approach on established stars like Scherzer or Verlander or Kershaw... just like LAD did with Bauer. Proven commodity with more manageable risk. I think the previous dictum of "no FA pitchers over 30" will be tweaked to "no long-term FA deals for pitchers over 30." What I definitely don't see is the kind of decade-long Cole/Stanton type of monstrosity that Cashman can't seem to resist. The Price ordeal likely weaned ownership off of those (although I still consider the Price deal a plus, given that he directly contributed to a title). And seriously, how many of us here will look at a top 3 of Sale Scherzer/Verlander/Kershaw Eovaldi ... and scream "I wish it was Sale-Eovaldi-ERod!" Maybe passing on E-Rod was just Chaim biding his time on landing a much bigger fish... there are certainly more out there than in a typical winter. I would if it is Kershaw. He is past it, fragile, and would not do well in the AL East. Fair on Kershaw although I'd be willing to offer him a pillow deal in addition to one of the others, if money is no object (and it shouldn't be). Slot him in behind Eovaldi.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 15, 2021 17:17:02 GMT -5
I would if it is Kershaw. He is past it, fragile, and would not do well in the AL East. Fair on Kershaw although I'd be willing to offer him a pillow deal in addition to one of the others, if money is no object (and it shouldn't be). Slot him in behind Eovaldi.
I've read that if Kershaw doesn't return to LA, his plan is to play near his home in Texas and the Rangers would be the favorite to sign him. I don't think Kershaw winds up in Boston. Matz or perhaps Rodon or Stroman would be more likely.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 15, 2021 17:18:51 GMT -5
Spent some time thinking about erod leaving. While I'm still bummed seeing him leave for that contract he got, I still look back at the rotation at the start of this year and can take some solace in the fact it's going to look a heck of a lot better opening day this year IMO. Slide sale in for erod and addition by subtraction of not having Martin perez or richards in it. I still think a trade with the marlins or As makes a lot of sense for both sides and there's still some decent options for Bloom to lurk in the weeds and strike as soon as he sees good value. They still have sale/eovaldi/Houck/Whitlock/Pivetta with what seems to be decent depth in the minors working their way up. Make a trade with Oakland, Miami or Cincinnati and sign a guy like Rodon, matz, Pineda, etc.
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Post by juanpena on Nov 15, 2021 17:27:24 GMT -5
And seriously, how many of us here will look at a top 3 of Sale Scherzer/Verlander/Kershaw Eovaldi ... and scream "I wish it was Sale-Eovaldi-ERod!" Maybe passing on E-Rod was just Chaim biding his time on landing a much bigger fish... there are certainly more out there than in a typical winter. How will people feel if the top three is: Sale Eovaldi 2022 equivalent of a Garrett Richards cheap flyer Because that could happen too.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 15, 2021 17:28:59 GMT -5
And seriously, how many of us here will look at a top 3 of Sale Scherzer/Verlander/Kershaw Eovaldi ... and scream "I wish it was Sale-Eovaldi-ERod!" Maybe passing on E-Rod was just Chaim biding his time on landing a much bigger fish... there are certainly more out there than in a typical winter. How will people feel if the top three is: Sale Eovaldi 2022 equivalent of a Garrett Richards cheap flyer Because that could happen too. Could that happen? Sure it's possible but seems very unlikely. Even if it did I'd say houck or pivetta would be considered the 3rd starter over a Richards type of flyer. But yes theoretically I'll bite at the idea and say I'd be pretty angry if that happens.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 15, 2021 17:44:55 GMT -5
No chance this ownership will spend 25 aav million on a pitcher anymore. None. Scherzer is staying out west. I disagree. How many teams win the World Series without having a true ace? I'm sure it happens but great pitching wins in October and that is the Sox aim. Who knows maybe that is why they let ERod go, they have their eyes set on a bigger prize. Either way I really hope your opinion isn't the case moving forward. I just don't think that meshes well with the strategy of being a WS contender every season. Unless they start trading the Yorkes, Mayers and Casas's from the farm system to land a top 10 pitching prospect or 2 how else are they going to get an ace. Utility of a top pitcher aside, the World Series just ended less than two weeks ago, and the Atlanta Braves won it.
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Post by baseball3 on Nov 15, 2021 17:48:18 GMT -5
Red Sox current thinking could include the Sox pitching prospects and MLB ready starting pitching prospects could tie into this.
Whitlock Houck Seabold
All ready by 2022.
Mata Ward
All should be ready by 2023.
All of these guys have the potential to fit Eduardo's production and the 5 year deal would have been kind of a payroll speed bump with all these mid to back rotation types in the rotation.
The Sox will probably look for a 1 or 2 stop gap type. Manea. Matz. Something like that be my guess.
Also. Eduardo for all his reliability, had a hard time coming through in the post season. I couldn't get over that in his time here. One good postseason start and really nothing else. I think that could have been a factor also. Looking for a guy with a higher ceiling in the post-season.
Add- Groome figures to be in this equation at some point unless he's traded.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 15, 2021 17:49:21 GMT -5
And seriously, how many of us here will look at a top 3 of Sale Scherzer/Verlander/Kershaw Eovaldi ... and scream "I wish it was Sale-Eovaldi-ERod!" Maybe passing on E-Rod was just Chaim biding his time on landing a much bigger fish... there are certainly more out there than in a typical winter. How will people feel if the top three is: Sale Eovaldi 2022 equivalent of a Garrett Richards cheap flyer Because that could happen too. Given that Richards was worth only 1 fWAR, it would require the Red Sox to trade Whitlock (1.6), Houck (2.2) and Pivetta (2.2). That would upset me. But bringing back Richards on a cheap deal to me the 6th starter or long man wouldn't be a bad move at all.
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