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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jul 20, 2022 12:23:11 GMT -5
You look at Raffy Devers and you see Pablo Sandoval? Sandoval had zero plate discipline and less discipline off the field when it came to conditioning. Devers had two monster seasons offensively that Sandoval didn't have. If memory serves he had one strong season early on and a great 2012 World Series, but his plate discipline and his conditioning were so horrific. I mean how do you not look at his 2019 and 2021 seasons and not see more growth and maturation ahead?Defensively I get your point, but still, his issues weren't that he didn't work on things or didn't have the skill set. I don't think he'll be a gold glover but I didn't see why he shouldn't be a competent 3b over the next few years. I could be wrong, but I don't think I was one of those that was sold on Dalbec being a better 3b defensively than Devers. I think when you give out a long-term contract you have to have projection involves, whether it's good or bad. I mean teams do know that they're not going to get value on the back end so they bake that into their offers. Likewise if you think an asset is going to appreciate it and you want to lock it in you invest. And that's the case with Devers. Sandoval had seasons of 149 and 146 wRC+ before turning 25. Devers' best two seasons were 134 and 132.
I really think you're having a hard time judging how things appeared at the time. The new offensive tier Devers reached this season was merely a hypothetical, which you're now treating as something that was a fait accompli in advance. It really wasn't. And the thought that Dvers might have had trouble with plate discipline and conditioning is hardly a wild idea either.
Man, you made me return to Panda’s numbers. Dude really was better than I remembered in 2009 and 2011. He was never the same. Ugh. Just makes that contract more predictably awful. 2012-2014 he was just a tick above mediocre and moving in the wrong direction. 🙄
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Post by theburn on Jul 20, 2022 12:32:29 GMT -5
What bugs be about the Olson comp. (aside from the age difference) is that Devers has proven that he can perform at a high level in the Boston market and in the playoffs. I don't give a damn what a player like Olson can do in freaking Oakland. It's not as simple as comparing stats on a page.
They've already screwed the Devers situation up. Even if he stays he's going to command far more money than he would have if their baseline had been higher than Olson. This is not how you maximize player value.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 20, 2022 12:45:24 GMT -5
You look at Raffy Devers and you see Pablo Sandoval? Sandoval had zero plate discipline and less discipline off the field when it came to conditioning. Devers had two monster seasons offensively that Sandoval didn't have. If memory serves he had one strong season early on and a great 2012 World Series, but his plate discipline and his conditioning were so horrific. I mean how do you not look at his 2019 and 2021 seasons and not see more growth and maturation ahead?Defensively I get your point, but still, his issues weren't that he didn't work on things or didn't have the skill set. I don't think he'll be a gold glover but I didn't see why he shouldn't be a competent 3b over the next few years. I could be wrong, but I don't think I was one of those that was sold on Dalbec being a better 3b defensively than Devers. I think when you give out a long-term contract you have to have projection involves, whether it's good or bad. I mean teams do know that they're not going to get value on the back end so they bake that into their offers. Likewise if you think an asset is going to appreciate it and you want to lock it in you invest. And that's the case with Devers. Sandoval had seasons of 149 and 146 wRC+ before turning 25. Devers' best two seasons were 134 and 132. I really think you're having a hard time judging how things appeared at the time. The new offensive tier Devers reached this season was merely a hypothetical, which you're now treating as something that was a fait accompli in advance. It really wasn't. And the thought that Dvers might have had trouble with plate discipline and conditioning is hardly a wild idea either.
I remembered Sandoval's .330 season but forgot two years later that he had a .315 season in 3/4 of a season. In between he had a .265 type season with a low OBP. Even in his best seasons, he wasn't a 40 HR threat. I know the stats don't back me up on the OPS comparison that but I've been suspecting for awhile now that 40 plus HRs per season are soon in Devers' future and this year might be the first. I don't think Sandoval was ever that kind of guy. Sandoval had a good hit tool, but with his lack of conditioning we can see why that dissipated pretty quickly. You can make the argument that Devers 2020 season could be comparable to Sandoval's 2010 season, in between his two best seasons and you can say that Devers wasn't in top shape and that's comparable to Sandoval, but I have trouble holding 2020 against anybody given what a mess that season was. I think it the season had another 100 games in it, Devers would have had a season more recognizable to something in between his 2019 and 2021 seasons but we'll never know. I didn't know much about Sandoval back in 2012. I suspect the Giants knew there would be issues ahead. I don't think that's the case with Devers. I guess that's where the "player makeup" piece comes in. Sandoval ate himself out of an all-star career, but not before getting a nice contract with you know who. I think Devers is past that already with a lot more positive trajectory and I felt that way prior to this season. I remember thinking that the Sox should offer 200 - 250 million to entice him. Now it's more like 320 - 350 million or possible even more. I know I got some flack for saying so then, but I felt if he stayed healthy he'd have a shot at 2500 - 3000 hits and a legit shot at 500 HRs. I still feel that way, just more so.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 20, 2022 12:50:30 GMT -5
I could see the Sox taking the reported 10 year 300 mil offer they made to mookie and offering rafi it. In turn if he declines it then I imagine they'd do just like they did with mookie and trade him. 10/300 seems more than fair if you ask me and if they do offer that either way I won't be upset as a fan.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 20, 2022 13:00:52 GMT -5
Sandoval had seasons of 149 and 146 wRC+ before turning 25. Devers' best two seasons were 134 and 132. I really think you're having a hard time judging how things appeared at the time. The new offensive tier Devers reached this season was merely a hypothetical, which you're now treating as something that was a fait accompli in advance. It really wasn't. And the thought that Dvers might have had trouble with plate discipline and conditioning is hardly a wild idea either.
I remembered Sandoval's .330 season but forgot two years later that he had a .315 season in 3/4 of a season. In between he had a .265 type season with a low OBP. Even in his best seasons, he wasn't a 40 HR threat. I know the stats don't back me up on the OPS comparison that but I've been suspecting for awhile now that 40 plus HRs per season are soon in Devers' future and this year might be the first. I don't think Sandoval was ever that kind of guy. Sandoval had a good hit tool, but with his lack of conditioning we can see why that dissipated pretty quickly. You can make the argument that Devers 2020 season could be comparable to Sandoval's 2010 season, in between his two best seasons and you can say that Devers wasn't in top shape and that's comparable to Sandoval, but I have trouble holding 2020 against anybody given what a mess that season was. I think it the season had another 100 games in it, Devers would have had a season more recognizable to something in between his 2019 and 2021 seasons but we'll never know. I didn't know much about Sandoval back in 2012. I suspect the Giants knew there would be issues ahead. I don't think that's the case with Devers. I guess that's where the "player makeup" piece comes in. Sandoval ate himself out of an all-star career, but not before getting a nice contract with you know who. I think Devers is past that already with a lot more positive trajectory and I felt that way prior to this season. I remember thinking that the Sox should offer 200 - 250 million to entice him. Now it's more like 320 - 350 million or possible even more. I know I got some flack for saying so then, but I felt if he stayed healthy he'd have a shot at 2500 - 3000 hits and a legit shot at 500 HRs. I still feel that way, just more so. For what it's worth through their age 24 seasons (so when the Sox would have been negotiating this off-season), Sandoval's career wRC+ was 128, Devers' was 119. Sandoval had been a better hitter and fielder. That aside though, my point was not that Devers = Sandoval and is destined to fall off, just that sometimes guys peak early, especially with questionable conditioning and plate discipline, and that it wasn't unreasonable of the Red Sox to not offer a contract that forecasted huge growth on offense and defense. I'm not even sure the issue you have because it feels to me like if they started at the Olson deal they would have gone to that 200-250 million range you suggested if he had wanted to negotiate, but he didn't because he's wanted that $300+ deal from the start and they weren't going to go there.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 20, 2022 13:14:23 GMT -5
Sandoval had seasons of 149 and 146 wRC+ before turning 25. Devers' best two seasons were 134 and 132.
I really think you're having a hard time judging how things appeared at the time. The new offensive tier Devers reached this season was merely a hypothetical, which you're now treating as something that was a fait accompli in advance. It really wasn't. And the thought that Dvers might have had trouble with plate discipline and conditioning is hardly a wild idea either.
Man, you made me return to Panda’s numbers. Dude really was better than I remembered in 2009 and 2011. He was never the same. Ugh. Just makes that contract more predictably awful. 2012-2014 he was just a tick above mediocre and moving in the wrong direction. 🙄 Yeah, I remember even at the time looking at the trendlines when he was signed and thinking "boy, that doesn't look great."
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 13:22:13 GMT -5
Sadly, I think the hometown discount ship sailed after they didn't make him a legit offer before the 2021 season. At that point, his agent was probably making the very strong case he should just ride it out to free agency. I can see why that timing (pre-2021) would have been tricky though. To that point in his career Devers had a 113 wRC+ and wildly uneven defense. But he had also had one excellent year (albeit with a still-not-stratospheric wRC+ of 132), and never an xwOBA above .368. The team still had 3 years of control left. But Devers probably thought he was that 6 WAR guy that he had so far been only for one season; he'd expect a superstar-like contract, but it would make no sense for the Red Sox to assume he'd be a superstar going forward.
With all that in mind, what sort of contract do you think both sides could have agreed to at the time?
see...i disagree with this premise and I think this is the slippery slope caused if you are gonna use analytics as a strict measure for decision making in situations like this (which you did here) if you want to use metrics as a complement to your valuation that is reasonable, but as strict orthodoxy it is wrong. You have a guy who is LH premium bat. Has always been 3-4 years younger than his level. Plays premium position erratically, but not incompetently. Gets along with teammates, shows production in big moments and you have already invested millions (?) in him. This is precisely the time you offer a big contract that will buyout FA years. If you constantly needing to justify expenditures based on comps or past performance you miss the window to actually buy peak production years at a reasonable rate. At a minimum, they should have bought out 2 FA years back in 2020. Now, it just gets more expensive. The Sox don't have to assume he is superstar, they just need to pay a premium on him being a very good player.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 13:26:21 GMT -5
i have to say...if the Sox offered Olson as a starting point, that is just annoying. I don't know how the knowledgeable members on this site can give that a pass. The players situations aren't similar. Looks like Ownership didn't learn any lessons.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 20, 2022 13:35:30 GMT -5
I can see why that timing (pre-2021) would have been tricky though. To that point in his career Devers had a 113 wRC+ and wildly uneven defense. But he had also had one excellent year (albeit with a still-not-stratospheric wRC+ of 132), and never an xwOBA above .368. The team still had 3 years of control left. But Devers probably thought he was that 6 WAR guy that he had so far been only for one season; he'd expect a superstar-like contract, but it would make no sense for the Red Sox to assume he'd be a superstar going forward.
With all that in mind, what sort of contract do you think both sides could have agreed to at the time?
see...i disagree with this premise and I think this is the slippery slope caused if you are gonna use analytics as a strict measure for decision making in situations like this (which you did here) if you want to use metrics as a complement to your valuation that is reasonable, but as strict orthodoxy it is wrong. You have a guy who is LH premium bat. Has always been 3-4 years younger than his level. Plays premium position erratically, but not incompetently. Gets along with teammates, shows production in big moments and you have already invested millions (?) in him. This is precisely the time you offer a big contract that will buyout FA years. If you constantly needing to justify expenditures based on comps or past performance you miss the window to actually buy peak production years at a reasonable rate. At a minimum, they should have bought out 2 FA years back in 2020. Now, it just gets more expensive. The Sox don't have to assume he is superstar, they just need to pay a premium on him being a very good player.But... this is what they did. Olson money. Or - by the way - I don't think we know it was literally the Olson deal that was offered, and the other reporting was that they offered $200 million or more, so it might in fact have been better than the Olson offer.
In any event, it sounds like you are saying they should have paid him like he was a superstar. In any event, it seems clear that Devers wasn't going to sign for less than superstar money, even though he wasn't a superstar yet.
(I for one wanted them to pay him like a superstar before this season, as a fan, but I can understand why they didn't. Which is all I'm saying here.)
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 13:40:11 GMT -5
see...i disagree with this premise and I think this is the slippery slope caused if you are gonna use analytics as a strict measure for decision making in situations like this (which you did here) if you want to use metrics as a complement to your valuation that is reasonable, but as strict orthodoxy it is wrong. You have a guy who is LH premium bat. Has always been 3-4 years younger than his level. Plays premium position erratically, but not incompetently. Gets along with teammates, shows production in big moments and you have already invested millions (?) in him. This is precisely the time you offer a big contract that will buyout FA years. If you constantly needing to justify expenditures based on comps or past performance you miss the window to actually buy peak production years at a reasonable rate. At a minimum, they should have bought out 2 FA years back in 2020. Now, it just gets more expensive. The Sox don't have to assume he is superstar, they just need to pay a premium on him being a very good player.But... this is what they did. Olson money. Or - by the way - I don't think we know it was literally the Olson deal that was offered, and the other reporting was that they offered $200 million or more, so it might in fact have been better than the Olson offer.
In any event, it sounds like you are saying they should have paid him like he was a superstar. In any event, it seems clear that Devers wasn't going to sign for less than superstar money, even though he wasn't a superstar yet.
are you saying they offered devers 8 yrs at 168 back in 2020 ? The reporting says they offered Olson contact at the All-Star break or over the winter. that is substantially different than doing it in 2020. If I was a GM, I would have easily offered Devers a 6yr /120 -140 million dollar contract then.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 20, 2022 13:44:27 GMT -5
It’s almost like you guys don’t get it. I’m not trying to be rude but Blooms job is to sign him as cheap as possible. If Devers takes that deal in the offseason he gets a 10 mill raise this year and b 7+ mil next season. Jose Ramirez just signed for 7-141. Yes he’s younger but it’s called negotiating. You don’t come out with your best offer as your first offer. We offer 160. He wants 300. If we meet in the middle that’s a win. It wasn’t necessary to sign him last offseason. He’s already top 5 in the MLB in errors and i hope that helps drive his price down a little but if he wants to be here like he says you hope he takes a little discount at least.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 13:44:43 GMT -5
But... this is what they did. Olson money. Or - by the way - I don't think we know it was literally the Olson deal that was offered, and the other reporting was that they offered $200 million or more, so it might in fact have been better than the Olson offer.
In any event, it sounds like you are saying they should have paid him like he was a superstar. In any event, it seems clear that Devers wasn't going to sign for less than superstar money, even though he wasn't a superstar yet.
(I for one wanted them to pay him like a superstar before this season, as a fan, but I can understand why they didn't. Which is all I'm saying here.)
I am sorry, but your really not saying that. Your finding analytic reasons to justify not giving him a big contract up to this year. What I am saying is that he had shown enough that a long term extension should have been offered, not discussed, back in 2020. I mean, he is likely gonna leave now. And then what ? If not, they are gonna pay more now, which was avoidable to some degree.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 13:46:38 GMT -5
It’s almost like you guys don’t get it. I’m not trying to be rude but Blooms job is to sign him as cheap as possible. If Devers takes that deal in the offseason he gets a 10 mill raise this year and b 7+ mil next season. Jose Ramirez just signed for 7-141. Yes he’s younger but it’s called negotiating. You don’t come out with your best offer as your first offer. We offer 160. He wants 300. If we meet in the middle that’s a win. It wasn’t necessary to sign him last offseason. He’s already top 5 in the MLB in errors and i hope that helps drive his price down a little but if he wants to be here like he says you hope he takes a little discount at least. You think these agents don't know what's up ? Your not being rude, but you guys are wrong here. Devers was the perfect candidate for an extension 2 years ago. Now, you gotta play in his arena. Cause he is gonna get paid, for sure. Add: that isn't his job. his job is to win with the abundance of resources 27 or 28 othere GM's could only wish to have.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2022 14:06:25 GMT -5
These are their numbers for 2019-2021:
| AVG | OBP | SLG | wRC+ | fWAR | bWAR
| Olson | .257 | .354 | .522 | 134 | 9.6 | 11.8
| Devers
| .290
| .350
| .537
| 129 | 11.7
| 9.6
|
Both had two years of team control left coming into this season. Olson looks like a totally reasonable comp for Devers. The one major difference is that Olson is 2.5 years older. But for the Red Sox to start with the sort of offer Olson agreed to seems totally reasonable. It certainly wasn't "insulting" (which is a term people should really reserve for the offer they made to Bogaerts).
Do we know when the Sox offered this contract to Devers?
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manfred
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Posts: 11,461
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Post by manfred on Jul 20, 2022 14:08:13 GMT -5
Broadly speaking, I feel like people tend to speculate on contracts offered/not offered/rejected. Unless there is a press conference that says “we did this,” I’m taking it all with a grain of salt.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 20, 2022 14:11:20 GMT -5
But... this is what they did. Olson money. Or - by the way - I don't think we know it was literally the Olson deal that was offered, and the other reporting was that they offered $200 million or more, so it might in fact have been better than the Olson offer.
In any event, it sounds like you are saying they should have paid him like he was a superstar. In any event, it seems clear that Devers wasn't going to sign for less than superstar money, even though he wasn't a superstar yet.
are you saying they offered devers 8 yrs at 168 back in 2020 ? The reporting says they offered Olson contact at the All-Star break or over the winter. that is substantially different than doing it in 2020. If I was a GM, I would have easily offered Devers a 6yr /120 -140 million dollar contract then. Sorry, I missed that you were talking about what they should have done in 2020. So in that case, my question is the same as what I asked Guidas: what deal gets it done at that point? The fundamental problem remains that Devers seems to have wanted to be paid like a superstar but it would have been imprudent for the Red Sox to do that at that point. But... this is what they did. Olson money. Or - by the way - I don't think we know it was literally the Olson deal that was offered, and the other reporting was that they offered $200 million or more, so it might in fact have been better than the Olson offer.
In any event, it sounds like you are saying they should have paid him like he was a superstar. In any event, it seems clear that Devers wasn't going to sign for less than superstar money, even though he wasn't a superstar yet.
(I for one wanted them to pay him like a superstar before this season, as a fan, but I can understand why they didn't. Which is all I'm saying here.)
I am sorry, but your really not saying that. Your finding analytic reasons to justify not giving him a big contract up to this year. What I am saying is that he had shown enough that a long term extension should have been offered, not discussed, back in 2020. I mean, he is likely gonna leave now. And then what ? If not, they are gonna pay more now, which was avoidable to some degree. I don't really know what you mean by "analytic" reasons. I'm just pointing out what his stats were through 2021. They were very good, obviously, but not superstar level.
And yes, of course if they had paid him like a superstar a year or two ago then they'd look pretty smart now. But it was not a fait accompli that he was going to turn into a superstar.
In any event, there is not that much disagreement here. We both want him to get a long-term deal from the Red Sox that makes his great-grandchildren rich.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 20, 2022 14:14:19 GMT -5
These are their numbers for 2019-2021:
| AVG | OBP | SLG | wRC+ | fWAR | bWAR
| Olson | .257 | .354 | .522 | 134 | 9.6 | 11.8
| Devers
| .290
| .350
| .537
| 129 | 11.7
| 9.6
|
Both had two years of team control left coming into this season. Olson looks like a totally reasonable comp for Devers. The one major difference is that Olson is 2.5 years older. But for the Red Sox to start with the sort of offer Olson agreed to seems totally reasonable. It certainly wasn't "insulting" (which is a term people should really reserve for the offer they made to Bogaerts).
Do we know when the Sox offered this contract to Devers? I think there was a quote from someone in the know yesterday about the Sox offering Rafi roughly Olsen's years and dollars. There were other reports after the negotiations stalled that they were "$100 million apart." So the math isn't too tough if you use those as rough numbers.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 14:16:03 GMT -5
My opinion is a deal with Devers now starts at 10/240 and probably makes it way near 300. I don't even view Olson as nearly the same player. For one, he plays 1B, which teams can find more serviceable replacements and where we have a prosopect in the waiting. Also, i have never heard of anyone comparing him with Devers. We are talking about a generational hit tool. Been that way since he pounded Chapman's 100 mph fastball in 2017.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 14:25:24 GMT -5
Rafi should walk in the negotiating table with the following lyric blasting.
Since it costs a lot to win And even more to lose You and me 'bout to spend some time wonderin' what to choose......
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 20, 2022 14:32:07 GMT -5
It’s almost like you guys don’t get it. I’m not trying to be rude but Blooms job is to sign him as cheap as possible. If Devers takes that deal in the offseason he gets a 10 mill raise this year and b 7+ mil next season. Jose Ramirez just signed for 7-141. Yes he’s younger but it’s called negotiating. You don’t come out with your best offer as your first offer. We offer 160. He wants 300. If we meet in the middle that’s a win. It wasn’t necessary to sign him last offseason. He’s already top 5 in the MLB in errors and i hope that helps drive his price down a little but if he wants to be here like he says you hope he takes a little discount at least. You think these agents don't know what's up ? Your not being rude, but you guys are wrong here. Devers was the perfect candidate for an extension 2 years ago. Now, you gotta play in his arena. Cause he is gonna get paid, for sure. Add: that isn't his job. his job is to win with the abundance of resources 27 or 28 othere GM's could only wish to have. Why do you think Devers would have accepted a less than super-star deal in 2020? It seems to me like he's been intent to bet on himself, maybe they even did try to extend him and he wanted to wait. The Red Sox don't get to extend players just because they want to.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 20, 2022 14:36:33 GMT -5
You think these agents don't know what's up ? Your not being rude, but you guys are wrong here. Devers was the perfect candidate for an extension 2 years ago. Now, you gotta play in his arena. Cause he is gonna get paid, for sure. Add: that isn't his job. his job is to win with the abundance of resources 27 or 28 othere GM's could only wish to have. Why do you think Devers would have accepted a less than super-star deal in 2020? It seems to me like he's been intent to bet on himself, maybe they even did try to extend him and he wanted to wait. The Red Sox don't get to extend players just because they want to. for the same reasons that any 22 year old would take that kind of money. Life security with the ability to re-up during his prime years. I am not re-inventing the wheel here. It has been offered and done many times. And your last sentence is purposefully gratuitous. I an very well aware of that. What is probable, in my mind, is it wasn't offered.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 20, 2022 14:44:52 GMT -5
You think these agents don't know what's up ? Your not being rude, but you guys are wrong here. Devers was the perfect candidate for an extension 2 years ago. Now, you gotta play in his arena. Cause he is gonna get paid, for sure. Add: that isn't his job. his job is to win with the abundance of resources 27 or 28 othere GM's could only wish to have. Why do you think Devers would have accepted a less than super-star deal in 2020? It seems to me like he's been intent to bet on himself, maybe they even did try to extend him and he wanted to wait. The Red Sox don't get to extend players just because they want to. I think you can look because the media started asking Devers about that time if he'd been approached about an extension, and he said no.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 20, 2022 14:46:44 GMT -5
It’s almost like you guys don’t get it. I’m not trying to be rude but Blooms job is to sign him as cheap as possible. If Devers takes that deal in the offseason he gets a 10 mill raise this year and b 7+ mil next season. Jose Ramirez just signed for 7-141. Yes he’s younger but it’s called negotiating. You don’t come out with your best offer as your first offer. We offer 160. He wants 300. If we meet in the middle that’s a win. It wasn’t necessary to sign him last offseason. He’s already top 5 in the MLB in errors and i hope that helps drive his price down a little but if he wants to be here like he says you hope he takes a little discount at least. You think these agents don't know what's up ? Your not being rude, but you guys are wrong here. Devers was the perfect candidate for an extension 2 years ago. Now, you gotta play in his arena. Cause he is gonna get paid, for sure. Add: that isn't his job. his job is to win with the abundance of resources 27 or 28 othere GM's could only wish to have. Part of his job is to sign free agents/current players to the best deal he can. That way he can spread money elsewhere. There were articles saying we stepped up to 200 million. It sounds like his demands were already high and I don’t think this season has much to do with that. We offered a 23 year old with 2.5 good seasons under his belt 200 million dollars. Stop acting like that isnt crazy. Yes he might be worth more in the open market but it’s called negotiating. I don’t think we wanted to sign him last offseason because would of put us over the 230 cap. I’m sure we will get a deal done but I really believe Bloom has done the right thing so far.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 20, 2022 14:55:54 GMT -5
Why do you think Devers would have accepted a less than super-star deal in 2020? It seems to me like he's been intent to bet on himself, maybe they even did try to extend him and he wanted to wait. The Red Sox don't get to extend players just because they want to. I think you can look because the media started asking Devers about that time if he'd been approached about an extension, and he said no. That doesn't tell us anything about what kind of deal he would have taken. It's possible the team went to his agent got the ball park and decided not to open negotiations. If the team isn't doing this with every relevant player's agent I'd be shocked.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 20, 2022 15:14:28 GMT -5
I think some need to put this into perspective. We're talking about the Olsen-type offer made to Devers before this season, which has been his best season by far, when there were far more questions than answers about whether he would remain at 3B. Now that he has had this incredible half season and has proven that he can handle 3B adequately, then yes his value has gone up significantly, which the Red Sox also obviously realize. Maybe Devers knew he was going to have this season, but it would be crazy for the Red Sox or anyone else to assume he would and make an offer that assumes he'll be an 8 WAR player for the next 5 years.
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