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Post by jmei on Mar 23, 2022 15:45:59 GMT -5
It’s all about negotiating leverage. Of course the teams would like team options/opt-outs, but high-demand players would never go for it.
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zoot
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Post by zoot on Mar 23, 2022 16:27:31 GMT -5
That wasn’t so much the point of my comment.
I’m amazed the clubs have permitted opt outs to get the toehold they’ve gotten, but done is done. My comment is that if the player wants an opt out, that’s fine, but the club should have a way to buy out that right at a premium cost, either as here by tacking on an additional option year or alternatively, by increasing the contractually-established compensation by a fixed amount or percentage, and perhaps by adding no-trade restrictions
There are lots of different ways to package a more balanced structure. The point is not to penalize the player, but to give the club a last clear chance to claw back the rest of the contract, albeit at some additional cost to it.
(Ps: I’m generally pro-player, just feel this is a Boras-type provision that’s gotten wildly out of kilter.)
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Post by incandenza on Mar 23, 2022 16:38:22 GMT -5
That wasn’t so much the point of my comment. I’m amazed the clubs have permitted opt outs to get the toehold they’ve gotten, but done is done. My comment is that if the player wants an opt out, that’s fine, but the club should have a way to buy out that right at a premium cost, either as here by tacking on an additional option year or alternatively, by increasing the contractually-established compensation by a fixed amount or percentage, and perhaps by adding no-trade restrictions There are lots of different ways to package a more balanced structure. The point is not to penalize the player, but to give the club a last clear chance to claw back the rest of the contract, albeit at some additional cost to it. (Ps: I’m generally pro-player, just feel this is a Boras-type provision that’s gotten wildly out of kilter.) I don't get what problem you're trying to solve here. Whatever contract is signed by both player and team is, by definition, something that both sides feel they will benefit from. If you want to grant the team some additional prerogative like this, then that just makes the value of the contract go down for the player - which in turn means that they'd have to be granted greater benefits elsewhere in the contract, e.g., a higher AAV.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 23, 2022 16:57:24 GMT -5
1) There is nothing that says teams can't have multi-year club options or something. This isn't a CBA issue.
2) Opt-outs mean less money. It's not like the team doesn't get anything for them.
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zoot
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Post by zoot on Mar 23, 2022 18:17:43 GMT -5
In the customary structure, the team gets a reduced compensation cost now in return for allowing the player to leave early. The trade-off is established now, and is expressed in agreed-on adjusted annual compensation. even though priorities may be different in 4 years.
In the Story deal structure, the player is free to leave early unless the team locks him in by swallowing increased obligations: longer term of years; greater annual base compensation; any one of a number of other variables. Both the opt-out decision, and the decision to buy back the opt-out, are deferred for 4 years.
So if minimizing the annual base comp is the trade-off for allowing the player opt-out and that is most important, Incandeza is right, the traditional structure works and there’s no problem to be solved. If keeping a toe-hold on the player for the full contract term is more important, then fine, the team can do it at increased cost. But the team doesn’t have to make that decision now, any more than the player needs to decide on his opt-out now.
That was my only point.
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Post by grandsalami on May 19, 2022 22:01:05 GMT -5
Story also made history today
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Post by bosoxnation on May 19, 2022 23:07:48 GMT -5
Baseball is about consistency. He had 1 hell of a game but he’s still hitting .230 with 5 homers close to june. You can’t let X walk for this guy!
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Post by Legion of Bloom on May 19, 2022 23:18:45 GMT -5
Baseball is about consistency. He had 1 hell of a game but he’s still hitting .230 with 5 homers close to june. You can’t let X walk for this guy! He also had basically no spring training. If we’re going to ignore today’s game, we should also ignore a small sample thus far. Would rather we all look back at the year as a whole than continue to nitpick. Let’s see how he finishes.
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Post by bosoxnation on May 19, 2022 23:30:42 GMT -5
Baseball is about consistency. He had 1 hell of a game but he’s still hitting .230 with 5 homers close to june. You can’t let X walk for this guy! He also had basically no spring training. If we’re going to ignore today’s game, we should also ignore a small sample thus far. Would rather we all look back at the year as a whole than continue to nitpick. Let’s see how he finishes. he avgs 470 ABs a year. He’s 126 ABs in which is over 25% of his per year average. All i’m saying is i’m not ready to replace X with this man.
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Post by incandenza on May 19, 2022 23:34:32 GMT -5
Baseball is about consistency. He had 1 hell of a game but he’s still hitting .230 with 5 homers close to june. You can’t let X walk for this guy! But hitting .230 is good now. He has an above average hitting line.
If he puts up a 112 wRC+ each season with good defense and baserunning, he's more than worth his contract, and close to Bogaerts in value.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 20, 2022 1:05:07 GMT -5
You’re right bosoxnation, baseball is about consistency
And Story has been a good baseball player for about 6 years. Pretty damn consistent if you ask me.
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Post by redsox43 on May 20, 2022 5:39:08 GMT -5
You’re right bosoxnation, baseball is about consistency And Story has been a good baseball player for about 6 years. Pretty damn consistent if you ask me. Yup. Everyone harps on Story's home park numbers at Coors, but the same could be said for Xander. Xander has a career .757 road OPS and won't nearly get the shade Story gets. Not trying to knock Xander at all, but if you have a good hitting home ballpark then it should be no surprise you hit better there.
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Post by grandsalami on May 20, 2022 21:06:12 GMT -5
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Post by blizzards39 on May 20, 2022 21:13:10 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on May 20, 2022 22:14:50 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on May 20, 2022 22:58:13 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on May 20, 2022 23:49:32 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on May 21, 2022 12:17:04 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 21, 2022 14:28:41 GMT -5
Mo Vaughn did have a weird stretch in 1995 when he was sneaking in stolen bases somehow.
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Post by grandsalami on May 24, 2022 23:19:30 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on May 27, 2022 7:24:01 GMT -5
I argued the merits of this signing and then had to watch as he got off to a terrible start. Now I am watching the redemption tour hoping it just keeps on going. It is early obviously but he is at least showing what he is capable of and he has proven he can overcome the pressure that accompanies playing in Boston. He made it extra hard on himself with that start and took a lot of heat so I am just glad he looks like he will be a big addition at a good price, kudos Chaim.
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Post by terriblehondo on Dec 8, 2022 12:42:01 GMT -5
OK the question I have is can Trevor Story still play short well in the Major leagues? I thought I read or heard something from a stats guy that his arm wasn't even at the top end of 2nd baseman now. So is that true or is what Bloom said about Story true and he can still play short?
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Post by bosoxnation on Dec 9, 2022 1:21:05 GMT -5
OK the question I have is can Trevor Story still play short well in the Major leagues? I thought I read or heard something from a stats guy that his arm wasn't even at the top end of 2nd baseman now. So is that true or is what Bloom said about Story true and he can still play short? I donât think anyone can answer this question but when bogaerts was out, arroyo and Kiké and downs played SS with Story at 2nd.
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Post by asm19 on Sept 19, 2023 9:08:44 GMT -5
Trevor Story is now through 133 AB's in his surgery plagued 2023 season. So far: .181/.218/.299 - 31 wRC+ - 34.6% K rate
The last two years have been manifestly difficult for him between: no spring training basically in 2022 after signing late; missing time for birth of his child; getting food poisoning; getting hit in the wrist by Corey Kluber; the elbow surgery.
That said, his entire slash line as a Red Sox player to this point in 128 games: .223/.282/.399 - 82 wRC+ - 31.8% K rate
The defense has been superb, including at SS now that the arm is fixed. I can't imagine he will be a Rich Man's Yu Chang again next year - but can the Sox go into next year planning to hit him in the middle of the order bat alongside Devers/Casas with his recent performance?
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 19, 2023 9:12:54 GMT -5
Trevor Story is now through 133 AB's in his surgery plagued 2023 season. So far: . 181/.218/.299 - 31 wRC+ - 34.6% K rateThe last two years have been manifestly difficult for him between: no spring training basically in 2022 after signing late; missing time for birth of his child; getting food poisoning; getting hit in the wrist by Corey Kluber; the elbow surgery. That said, his entire slash line as a Red Sox player to this point in 128 games: .223/.282/.399 - 82 wRC+ - 31.8% K rateThe defense has been superb, including at SS now that the arm is fixed. I can't imagine he will be a Rich Man's Yu Chang again next year - but can the Sox go into next year planning to hit him in the middle of the order bat alongside Devers/Casas with his recent performance? No but they don't need him to hit in the middle of the order
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