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4/25-4/28 Red Sox @ Blue Jays Series Thread
redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 26, 2022 22:33:33 GMT -5
Glad I didn't see this one either. Saw the lowlights. One out away. 3 run lead heading to the 9th.
So shocking that the pen is so horrible. Who needs a closer anyways, huh?
Bloom acted like the team just needed a tweak here or there and in my opinion missed a golden opportunity to really improve the team.
They needed a RF who could hit, a solid starting pitcher...I guess you can argue Wacha is that guy, but I still dont think so and they certainly could have used a closer. Seemed apparent to me that Barnes wasn't bouncing back. Whitlock can't be a starter, long man, and closer all at the same time.
And more than that, this team just finds ways to lose. Last year's team had a brutal August, but established early on that they can win a close game.
I got ridiculed for saying they had the IT factor. I think for the most part they ultimately did.
This year's team clearly doesn't have the IT factor. There is nothing about this team that makes me think they're a serious threat to take the division and frankly, they're doing nothing to make me believe they're better than an 84 win team. They might not even be that. This could be a 4th place sub .500 team, about to lose the top of their lineup, in Hernandez, Devers, Bogaerts, and Martinez and their best starter Eovaldi. They could easily be worse next year.
If they keep being mediocre to bad, they might have to entertain trading their best players and get talent that will play alongside with Mayer, Yorke, Casas, and perhaps others.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 26, 2022 22:36:16 GMT -5
When you realize the chances of winning the WS are pretty low even if you make the playoffs these days… you’ll feel a lot better.
This team is rebuilding the farm and will have financial flexibility as well as Story under what I believe is a good contract.
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Post by manfred on Apr 26, 2022 22:39:00 GMT -5
When you realize the chances of winning the WS are pretty low even if you make the playoffs these days… you’ll feel a lot better. This team is rebuilding the farm and will have financial flexibility as well as Story under what I believe is a good contract. So those odds will be better when Story is ~32, and we *might* have teenagers develop into starters?
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Apr 26, 2022 22:41:55 GMT -5
When you realize the chances of winning the WS are pretty low even if you make the playoffs these days… you’ll feel a lot better. This team is rebuilding the farm and will have financial flexibility as well as Story under what I believe is a good contract. So those odds will be better when Story is ~32, and we *might* have teenagers develop into starters? So, you think it's bad to have a player making big money at 32? Is that really you or did your account get hacked, manfred? I am, of course, just playfully yanking your chain.
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Post by manfred on Apr 26, 2022 22:45:00 GMT -5
So those odds will be better when Story is ~32, and we *might* have teenagers develop into starters? So, you think it's bad to have a player making big money at 32? Is that really you or did your account get hacked, manfred? I am, of course, just playfully yanking your chain. Naw, but I don’t think Story is the guy to build a big winner around. He’s a good piece. I don’t want to wait 3-4 years either.
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Apr 26, 2022 23:01:41 GMT -5
So, you think it's bad to have a player making big money at 32? Is that really you or did your account get hacked, manfred? I am, of course, just playfully yanking your chain. Naw, but I don’t think Story is the guy to build a big winner around. He’s a good piece. I don’t want to wait 3-4 years either. I don't totally disagree on Story. Then again, in this era a $23.3 million AAV is reasonable for a player of his caliber in his age 29 to 33 seasons. And I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up a couple of 5-WAR seasons here - though this won't be one of them with his shortened ST and slow start. And we really didn't have to wait three or four years. They took us on the ALCS ride last year. I look forward to next off-season when they should have some real money to spend for the first time since CB has been here.
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Post by prospectlove on Apr 27, 2022 4:59:04 GMT -5
By the way: Diekman and Barnes are multiyear signings. Is it controversial for me to say Bloom has done a bad job putting a bullpen together? Well, Diekman has an AAV of $4M, so that doesn't bother me. And anyone would have given Barnes the contract he got at mid-season last year. He was rolling. One ray of optimism I see is the possibility of some credible, cost-controlled RPs on this team next year. I'm thinking of Bello, Winkowski, Walter, and a more experienced version of Kutter. Having a few guys like that keeps you from having to sign mediocre veterans like Diekman at market value to round out your pen. Of those pitchers you named don’t you think atleast 2 of them will be starting pitchers? I’m thinking Walter and one of bello or winkowski. Still I like your point. We should have cheaper relievers for sure next year
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Post by prospectlove on Apr 27, 2022 5:07:28 GMT -5
When you realize the chances of winning the WS are pretty low even if you make the playoffs these days… you’ll feel a lot better. This team is rebuilding the farm and will have financial flexibility as well as Story under what I believe is a good contract. So those odds will be better when Story is ~32, and we *might* have teenagers develop into starters? Better this than the mess dombrowski left us in. Still rebuilding the farm from the complete crap hole he left us in both financially and within the farm system. Worst case scenario is we trade euvaldi. Jd Xander Kiki this year and give some guys a taste of both open slots and new roles. Then in off season we either sign devers or deal him and move into the next wave of Red Sox competition. Granted as that ages two things will need to happen: 1). Spend money on right high end players. Either our own or outside players. 2). Keep stocking and restocking the minors with depth so we don’t get into the expensive bullpen contracts and get hamstrung by needing to dig into free agency. Atleast now there is a plan for next year and year after and year after etc rather than just tossing all in for this year and next and who cares what happens after that
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Apr 27, 2022 5:19:23 GMT -5
This could be a blessing in disguise. This is a deeply flawed team that absolutely should not be buying in any trades. They should be making value plays to improve long term. Weren't we saying the same last April? There's a real chance this bullpen is decent to good when deployed correctly and when not missing key multi-inning weapons.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Apr 27, 2022 5:30:36 GMT -5
Things aren't that bad. If the team could just hit a little better, pitch a little better, field a little better, and win just a few more games.....they'd be pretty good!!!!
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Post by jmei on Apr 27, 2022 5:44:36 GMT -5
I cleaned up the thread as best I could in terms of vaccine discussion and personal attacks and PMed the offenders. Please do better. Thanks.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Apr 27, 2022 6:56:30 GMT -5
I mean this year is kind of irrelevant to the organization. Next year probably too. Story was signed as a preemptive move to let Boegarts walk. JD is done after this year and Devers is probably gone in the offseason. This team is going to look much different to open next year as the organization looks to field the next wave of home grown talent.
I honestly do expect the Sox at this rate to field offers for everyone who is not cost controlled and build around a core of Whitlock, Houck, Story, Casas, Verdugo and go from there. This is still not really Blooms vision/team. It will be by next year. If you like prospects I'd expect to see a bunch come in between the summer and the beginning of next year.
Then again....this team could go on an epic run its only under a month in. But even if they go on a run I could see Boston using someone like Eovaldi to dump Sale.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 27, 2022 7:05:40 GMT -5
I cleaned up the thread as best I could in terms of vaccine discussion and personal attacks and PMed the offenders. Please do better. Thanks. Back to our regularly scheduled Bobby bashing/defending.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 27, 2022 7:09:16 GMT -5
Its Early..trust the process. Based on what? All Bloom’s success? OK…
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 27, 2022 7:11:05 GMT -5
Its Early..trust the process. Based on what? All Bloom’s success? OK… I mean are we just gonna pretend that people werent saying the same things last year and then they ended up arguably a Laz Diaz away from the World Series? It’s not like they’re getting blown out. They’re frustrating losses but at the end of the day it’s April. I really like what bloom has done here. The only move I really question is the Barnes contract because I believe he gave it out not all that long after the sticky stuff ban. Probably should’ve waited until he got more data on how Barnes would do without it. I really love the direction the org is heading in and to me it’s clear they have a plan.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Apr 27, 2022 7:25:35 GMT -5
Based on what? All Bloom’s success? OK… I mean are we just gonna pretend that people werent saying the same things last year and then they ended up arguably a Laz Diaz away from the World Series? It’s not like they’re getting blown out. They’re frustrating losses but at the end of the day it’s April. I really like what bloom has done here. The only move I really question is the Barnes contract because I believe he gave it out not all that long after the sticky stuff ban. Probably should’ve waited until he got more data on how Barnes would do without it. I really love the direction the org is heading in and to me it’s clear they have a plan. The plan is solid. But for the next two years I wonder if tanking is the best way to get sustained success for the next 10 years. You have a very interesting scenario with a big market team that has a mid market sensibility. In a clean slate this organization will not spend with the Yankees or Dodgers but they do have the ability to. The core of the 2018 team will be gone by opening day next year. You still have Cora and you have some interesting building blocks. You can dump Sale in a trade for someone who wants say Eovaldi and take 27 million off the payroll for next year and replace Eovaldi and Sale with Groome and Bello/Mata. You can move Xander and probably get 3 solid prospects. Devers you'll get a haul for. So theres at least a sensible conversation to be had about tanking if this team isn't going to contend next year anyways. But if the plan is to contend this year and next then they really need to fix the bullpen. Barnes needs to go on the DL or something.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 27, 2022 7:43:37 GMT -5
FREE MOOSE MAN
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Post by jmei on Apr 27, 2022 7:57:09 GMT -5
It's exhausting how every gameday thread where the Red Sox have lost turns into the same tired debates about Bloom vs. Dombrowski, offseason moves (or lack thereof), Benintendi trade, Betts trade and so on. I think we know where all the board regulars stand on those issues by now. It's not interesting to read and I can't imagine it's interesting to write. If you're making the same point that you've made three other times in the last week, maybe... don't? I would hope we're past the point where trying to win an internet argument is all that compelling of a goal.
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 27, 2022 7:59:58 GMT -5
Is Casas being held down long enough to avoid burning a service year? Isn't it usually around May 1?
And for RF, do they go longer into the summer for this year's Ramirez/Schwarber move? (and who, Nathaniel Cruz?)
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 27, 2022 8:38:11 GMT -5
Is Casas being held down long enough to avoid burning a service year? Isn't it usually around May 1? And for RF, do they go longer into the summer for this year's Ramirez/Schwarber move? (and who, Nathaniel Cruz?) You only need to hold them back 11 days in a normal season. The rules might be a little different this year because of the lockout, but he should be clear at this point.
I don't think they're doing anything until the rosters cut down to 26 on May 1st.
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Post by manfred on Apr 27, 2022 9:10:09 GMT -5
The thing that is also hurting right now is Sale being out. If he were healthy, one of Houck, Whitlock, or Wacha would be in the pen… and any of the three would immediately be option 1 or 1a if Robles keeps it up. How long until he gets back? I have not seen anything to indicate it is soon.
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Post by benzinger on Apr 27, 2022 9:17:16 GMT -5
Based on what? All Bloom’s success? OK… I mean are we just gonna pretend that people werent saying the same things last year and then they ended up arguably a Laz Diaz away from the World Series? It’s not like they’re getting blown out. They’re frustrating losses but at the end of the day it’s April. I really like what bloom has done here. The only move I really question is the Barnes contract because I believe he gave it out not all that long after the sticky stuff ban. Probably should’ve waited until he got more data on how Barnes would do without it. I really love the direction the org is heading in and to me it’s clear they have a plan. Losses are losses. And they are losing a lot. They are also getting beat by all their divisional rivals. It’s clear that Toronto is better than they are. The Yankees absolutely look to be better. Tampa never makes sense on paper but is probably better, as well. If this is the 4th best team in the division, what is there to get excited about for 2022? They should look to do what the Cubs did last year and purge everyone they can. Then they’ll have a ton of flexibility to rebuild.
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Post by benzinger on Apr 27, 2022 9:18:56 GMT -5
The thing that is also hurting right now is Sale being out. If he were healthy, one of Houck, Whitlock, or Wacha would be in the pen… and any of the three would immediately be option 1 or 1a if Robles keeps it up. How long until he gets back? I have not seen anything to indicate it is soon. Sale hasn’t been healthy in almost 4 years, though....
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Apr 27, 2022 9:41:57 GMT -5
The thing that is also hurting right now is Sale being out. If he were healthy, one of Houck, Whitlock, or Wacha would be in the pen… and any of the three would immediately be option 1 or 1a if Robles keeps it up. How long until he gets back? I have not seen anything to indicate it is soon. This is why I'm not as concerned with the construction of the bullpen as it stands right now. You can definitely make the case that Bloom knew Sale and Paxton weren't going to be ready to start right away (Paxton maybe not this season? Can't remember what his timeline is) but on the flip side agents aren't stupid, they know that these guys eventually coming back is going to crowd other players out which is going to limit their ability to stock the roster with capable (and therefore more in-demand and expensive) alternatives. The way I see it right now, the biggest issues in the bullpen are not the guys they've brought in, but the guys that have been around (Barnes, Brasier) and Danish, who typically would not be on the roster. Brasier seems expendable if they ever decide to make that move but I have no idea what they do with Barnes. That deal looked pretty good at the time but they're kind of handcuffed when it comes to navigating his money and again given how the deal was perceived at the time I'm not sure there's one particular source to heap all the blame on. I don't really see Diekman as an issue, he was pretty effective in his first 6 appearances and most relievers (I do think one issue of the perception of this bullpen is that many here assume every other bullpen is consistently locking people down - not the case, it just seems that way because the Sox's offense has sucked so far) are going to be volatile, so I can accept him as a quality option in lower leverage spots than he has been thrown in to date. Maybe this is just my willingness to shrug my shoulders and be accepting of it, but it seems like more of a confluence of unfortunate circumstances (Sale's injury, Houck not being able to make the trip - not blaming, just making an objective statement!) than terrible team-building. That's not to say Bloom has done a stellar job with it either, outside of obviously the Whitlock pick, but I think that the moves he made both with guys like Diekman/Strahm and then in the rotation should be enough to create a good bullpen long term. Now, maybe long-term doesn't matter as much when in the short term we're losing so much that it might be too little too late by the time this team is fully realized, but that complexity is why they get paid the big bucks and I don't.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 27, 2022 9:42:46 GMT -5
Win expectancy got as high as 96% on Saturday. 80% on Sunday. 60% on Monday. 97% yesterday.
0-4.
I consider this a public health hazard.
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