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Post by nothingball on Jun 26, 2013 12:25:07 GMT -5
All of this is up in the air right now of course. In addition to being one of the best problems a team can have.
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 26, 2013 12:37:02 GMT -5
It really will be intersting to follow that's for sure. Reports have Discarina being pleased with Xander's defense as well. Do you try and squeez a few years at SS out of him while Marrero and some of the younger guys develop and look to trade Iglesias? Remember Didi Gregorius was the center piece of the Bauer deal. Iggy could be a valuable piece going forward if he continues putting together quality ABs. If I'm the GM I probably keep Iggy at SS and put Xander at 3B then make a decision on WMBs. Could he fetch a top OF or 1B prospect or move to first? That's if he turns it around in AAA. If Iglesias can hit like and average MLB SS then you have to play him at SS. Why give up runs there, and lose runs at the plate by playing Iggy at 3rd and having Xander playing an ave SS at best defensively? Makes little sense just to have value. Now if you have a .280/.330/.500 Middlebrooks playing 3rd then, yes, you may want to play Xander at SS and trade Iglesias. Or consider moving MBrooks or Bogaerts to 1st and keeping Jose. All of this is up in the air right now of course. Yup, I have to agree. If Iglesias is hitting like an average MLB shortstop (note average shortstop, not average MLB player), then he must be there playing everyday. The value at third doesn't do it for me, because there is no other player I can see the Sox putting at short over Iggy if he's going to start. I'm not counting on WMB having top-prospect trade value barring some major improvements. It certainly wouldn't hurt him to learn first base, as that could be a position he could contribute at for us next season, even if it's only a part time role. Now if a team does offer some attractive chips to us for him, I wouldn't hold back, if only because I don't see Middlebrooks plate discipline ever elevating him past a .260/.300/.500 line, which isn't bad when you consider his power, but I can't take the horrific approach and K's leading to a .300 or below OBP when we have other quality options.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 26, 2013 12:56:17 GMT -5
One note for everyone ready to trade Drew: Iglesias has had a relatively major injury that has caused him to miss weeks of time or more in every year since he signed:
2010: Out from 5/29 to 7/30 (rehab: 7/31-8/15) 2011: Out from 7/4 to 7/20 2012: Out from 5/26 to 6/21 (rehab: 6/22-6/24)
Could it just be poor luck? Certainly - I'm pretty sure one of those injuries was getting hit on the hand with a pitch. That said, he hasn't been the model of health either.
This has no basis in reality, but based on karma, I guarantee you he gets hurt the second they trade Drew, should that happen.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 26, 2013 13:04:29 GMT -5
Agree strongly with Guidas here. It's easy enough to weave your way through this relatively simple maze. Drew is gone after this year. Iglesias has made it quite evident that, even if he regresses quite a bit, he's got the bat to be, at the very least, an adequate hitter at that position. Given the bat-speed and his contact rate he may be more than that, but he's at least that much. Given the ridiculous glove at the position, he's the shortstop. Hell, I'd pay just to watch him do that. The hitting chops he's been showing off are nothing but a bonus.
That leaves third base. Middlebrooks will get to watch his competition day in and day out in Pawtucket. Despite the tremendous power potential he has, he's going to have to figure out when to swing and at what. That's not a small order. If Bogaerts continues to show patience, while pushing his average up and pushing out the XBHs, he's going to show up on the ML roster playing third base at some point. The Sox have a lot of options here. The players will determine what happens next. But given the current trajectory, the scenario laid out above seems likely.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 26, 2013 13:21:44 GMT -5
One note for everyone ready to trade Drew: Iglesias has had a relatively major injury that has caused him to miss weeks of time or more in every year This has no basis in reality, but based on karma, I guarantee you he gets hurt the second they trade Drew, should that happen. Don't disagree, but note that my interest in trading Drew is predicated on him being the 4th best option at the left side infield, when including a reenergized WMB, Bogaerts, and Iglesias. Without that fallback option, I wouldn't do it, so all three have to stay healthy and show they're ready to produce. Also, I understand that unless there's a contending team with a glaring need, you're going to get almost nothing for Drew, though you can certainly afford to eat the contract. Hopefully a wild-card prospect for Greenville would be my dream scenario return, though in a package, it could be a reliever.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 26, 2013 13:58:37 GMT -5
One note for everyone ready to trade Drew: Iglesias has had a relatively major injury that has caused him to miss weeks of time or more in every year since he signed: 2010: Out from 5/29 to 7/30 (rehab: 7/31-8/15) 2011: Out from 7/4 to 7/20 2012: Out from 5/26 to 6/21 (rehab: 6/22-6/24) Could it just be poor luck? Certainly - I'm pretty sure one of those injuries was getting hit on the hand with a pitch. That said, he hasn't been the model of health either. This has no basis in reality, but based on karma, I guarantee you he gets hurt the second they trade Drew, should that happen. Happened to Middlebrooks almost the moment Youk was traded last year.
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Post by charliezink16 on Jun 26, 2013 14:41:10 GMT -5
One note for everyone ready to trade Drew: Iglesias has had a relatively major injury that has caused him to miss weeks of time or more in every year This has no basis in reality, but based on karma, I guarantee you he gets hurt the second they trade Drew, should that happen. Also, I understand that unless there's a contending team with a glaring need, you're going to get almost nothing for Drew, though you can certainly afford to eat the contract. Hopefully a wild-card prospect for Greenville would be my dream scenario return, though in a package, it could be a reliever. I disagree with this. Even though Drew has not been hitting, he's been playing great defense, plays a premium position that had high demand, is getting on base a lot and sees a lot of pitches, and is due to progress at least some. I'm not saying a top 100 prospect would head our way, but we could pick up something descent. If be does get dealt, I still see Pittsburgh (who we have a history of dealing with) or Detroit as likely destinations.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 26, 2013 17:26:14 GMT -5
St. Louis, too.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 26, 2013 20:55:34 GMT -5
You always play your best 9 in the majors without caring about value.
Iglesias is showing he has the potential that many thought he didn't have. It would be a huge mistake to trade him for the sole reason that Boegarts has more value at SS. Let's not trade someone who might be the next Vizquel or Ozzie for Larry Anderson. I'd rather take the chance that he goes back to a .200/.250/.350 line than trade a possible perennial gold glove shortstop with an average+ bat for an old bullpen arm.
If a team wants to blow us away with an offer, then by all means, listen to it - like asking for him as the centerpiece in a Cliff Lee trade. But I'm sure the questions about his current BAPIP will prevent it at this point along with the lack of a track record through the minors.
Let's go with having a problem of having too many shortstops who can both play 3b. It'll work itself out. Players who have to play will force the decision when the time comes. We should have learned by now that you need depth in the majors and minors to be a competitive team, with this season being the perfect example.
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Post by bluechip on Jun 26, 2013 21:22:46 GMT -5
The strikeout rate with Iglesias is very impressive, among rookies with at least 50 plate appearances, he is second only to J.B. Shuck (who is striking out only 8% of the time).
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 27, 2013 1:13:27 GMT -5
The other day top management visited Portland right, ostensibly to see Ranaudo ( per our speculation ). They may also have been looking for an update on Cechinni. At some point if we assume Iglesias has now proven to be our likely SS next year, they may have a logjam at 3rd. Xander, Middlebrooks, Cechinni. Top 3rd base prospects are very much in demand. We have a lot of good starting pitching prospects. We may not really need that much from the FA market short term and possibly can save some money for some really premium guys. Iglesias's emergence has changed the entire dynamic.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Jun 27, 2013 7:50:33 GMT -5
I could see Drew and maybe a bullpen arm being traded to Detroit to fetch a good prospect because the infield of Detroit, although they make plays on balls that are hit close to them, do not have much range and don't make plays on balls that aren't errors but not impossible to get to, if that makes sense. They could move Peralta to DH because Victor Martinez isn't hitting and after Peralta gets caught for roids they can move Martinez back while in the meantime using him as a bench player. You aren't getting much drop-off in the lineup as well because Drew and Martinez are hitting basically the same.
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Post by mainesox on Jun 27, 2013 7:53:49 GMT -5
The other day top management visited Portland right, ostensibly to see Ranaudo ( per our speculation ). They may also have been looking for an update on Cechinni. At some point if we assume Iglesias has now proven to be our likely SS next year, they may have a logjam at 3rd. Xander, Middlebrooks, Cechinni. Top 3rd base prospects are very much in demand. We have a lot of good starting pitching prospects. We may not really need that much from the FA market short term and possibly can save some money for some really premium guys. Iglesias's emergence has changed the entire dynamic. I think it's way too early to assume Iglesias has won a job going forward; he's certainly put himself in the conversation, but we're still talking about a relatively small sample of success here.
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 27, 2013 8:29:41 GMT -5
The other day top management visited Portland right, ostensibly to see Ranaudo ( per our speculation ). They may also have been looking for an update on Cechinni. At some point if we assume Iglesias has now proven to be our likely SS next year, they may have a logjam at 3rd. Xander, Middlebrooks, Cechinni. Top 3rd base prospects are very much in demand. We have a lot of good starting pitching prospects. We may not really need that much from the FA market short term and possibly can save some money for some really premium guys. Iglesias's emergence has changed the entire dynamic. I think it's way too early to assume Iglesias has won a job going forward; he's certainly put himself in the conversation, but we're still talking about a relatively small sample of success here. Not to mention it's way too early to think we have a logjam at 3rdbase when we currently have a noodle bat SS playing there in the majors. Even if Cecchini, WMB and Xander hit the cover off the ball right up to the majors, there is plenty of room between 3rd, 1st and the outfield. Not to mention that Iglesias could be the one who's traded in a sell high type deal. For instance if Detroit offered Castellanos for Iggy straight up (which they won't.... just supposin) I would do it in a cocaine heartbeat. How about a Carp/WMB platoon at 1st next year if Naps isn't re-signed (I bet he gets a QO though).
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 27, 2013 15:51:33 GMT -5
What is more surprising, that Fangraphs has Iglesias at a wOBA of .443 or that they have him at a -2.1 UZR??
Yes, yes I know small sample size, inconsistent defensive metrics, blah blah blah. Just saw it and thought it was funny.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 27, 2013 23:16:08 GMT -5
To me it is extremely likely that Iglesias is our starting SS next year. And I do not see Middlebrooks in the running at 1st. He's traded if he isn't in our plans. They are not moving him to 1st. He is worth so much more as a 3rd baseman and the demand is high. If anyone is traded at the deadline it is guys like Drew or Middlebrooks.
Iglesias has been lucky but he has clearly won the SS job next year unless he absolutely implodes going forward.
There is no urgency to trade anyone but 3rd base is a position of strength organizationally. At some point one of those 3 gets traded ( Middlebrooks probably. Bogaerts or Cechinni). Probably not until next winter but my bet is that Bogaerts is next year's 3rd baseman.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 0:39:27 GMT -5
Chris this is a good analysis and you mentioned one obvious counter argument. I'd submit another.
Iglesias didn't play winter ball this year and instead went to Arizona and worked out gaining muscle. Could it be that the effect of his change in off season routine will also change the trend you mentioned? At the very least I think it's a better counter than luck.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2013 12:57:57 GMT -5
Chris this is a good analysis and you mentioned one obvious counter argument. I'd submit another. Iglesias didn't play winter ball this year and instead went to Arizona and worked out gaining muscle. Could it be that the effect of his change in off season routine will also change the trend you mentioned? At the very least I think it's a better counter than luck. Eh, maybe, but he did the same thing the offseason before.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 13:03:02 GMT -5
I am not sure about that. There have been mentions on the broadcast about him not playing winterball this year and being more in shape this year especially in the upper body and core. Did he not play winterball last year?
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Post by tjb21 on Jun 28, 2013 13:46:44 GMT -5
I am not sure about that. There have been mentions on the broadcast about him not playing winterball this year and being more in shape this year especially in the upper body and core. Did he not play winterball last year? It is crazy that almost every player is in the best shape of their life every spring training. Good for them. EDIT: poor spelling
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 28, 2013 13:57:43 GMT -5
I am not sure about that. There have been mentions on the broadcast about him not playing winterball this year and being more in shape this year especially in the upper body and core. Did he not play winterball last year? It is crazy that almost every player is in the best shape of their life every spring training. Good for them. EDIT: poor spelling That's a vapid cliche for older players, but for players in their early 20s it's often true. Especially ones who start out too skinny.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2013 15:04:30 GMT -5
I am not sure about that. There have been mentions on the broadcast about him not playing winterball this year and being more in shape this year especially in the upper body and core. Did he not play winterball last year? Not that we're aware of, no. He played in the AFL the offseason before his first season and the following offseason, but didn't play anywhere the last two years. (By the way, fall stats are available on the player pages here on the site, y'know...) The story after last offseason was that he trained with A-Rod in Miami (before anyone goes there, he's surely been tested since) and came back trying to swing like him, and when that didn't work, trying to swing like a bunch of other major leaguers before cutting the crap and just going back to his swing.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jun 28, 2013 15:09:41 GMT -5
It is crazy that almost every player is in the best shape of their life every spring training. Good for them. EDIT: poor spelling (points to Felix Doubront)
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Post by Guidas on Jun 28, 2013 15:49:56 GMT -5
Distributed by Sox PR office today:
Jose Iglesias recorded his 50th hit of the season with a 2nd-inning single on Thursday night in just his 118th at-bat of 2013...Elias says that since the 1st rookie standards were set in 1958, Iglesias’ 118 AB are the fewest by a rookie at the time of his 50th hit in a season...The only other rookie who reached 50 hits in a season in fewer than 120 AB was MIN’s Tony Oliva in 1964 (119th AB).
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dd
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Post by dd on Jun 29, 2013 9:05:37 GMT -5
I don't know what religion Jose Iglesias is, but I'm thinking of converting. He clearly has a mentor above.
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