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5/27-5/30 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on May 29, 2022 21:26:59 GMT -5
Cordero now has the same number of 2B and HR as Benintendi. in 110 fewer plate appearances
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2022 21:43:51 GMT -5
Cordero now has the same number of 2B and HR as Benintendi. in 110 fewer plate appearances Franchy .825 OPS Beni .821. OPS
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 30, 2022 9:07:24 GMT -5
Apologies in advance...but the continued Benintendi / Franchy comparisons have gotten beyond silly. Post what you want, but I am gonna comment this time in response.
The comparisons are basically a proxy for Bloom acolytes to announce how proud they are of him, particularly now that Franchy is playing so well.
It is OK that both players do well. That is kind of the object of a good trade. They aren't competing against each other in any meaningful way.
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Post by Guidas on May 30, 2022 9:07:31 GMT -5
I'm just so thrilled with how successful Franchy has been in his return to the majors. I think that the injuries, then the COVID time that denied him spring training, really had something to do with the first impressions many on the board had. Once he got down to Worcester and got it going there was no stopping him. The swing is so fluid and the skillset so imporessive... yes it's sweet to see him take it to the majors. I recently heard a podcast on how much Covid derailed minor league development, especially of players who are over 21 where the key AA-AAA years, PA, pitches, etc. in a competitive environment were just lost forever for 12-18 months. Much like what happened with our school children where important development at key points in their lives was lost. You can move on, but many just won’t be able to get that back, or they will but they’ll be 2 years behind those who didn’t face such hurdles at the same key developmental moments. it’s significant adversity to overcome and glad to see that Franchy, even at his age, seems to have made adjustments. We’ll see if it holds against teams such as the Rays, Toronto, NYY etc., but positive steps. I do wish they’d give Duran the same opportunity to prove himself.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on May 30, 2022 10:15:36 GMT -5
I love the Franchy comeback story. But remain cautiously optimistic. He has contributed at a position where we were getting nothing. I hope it continues. It's a great story - and who knows, maybe he develops into a significant piece. Seems like he's slowly developing a cult-hero following which I like. Seems humble too. Pretty soon he'll need a chant like they do at football matches in the UK.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on May 30, 2022 10:46:21 GMT -5
Apologies in advance...but the continued Benintendi / Franchy comparisons have gotten beyond silly. Post what you want, but I am gonna comment this time in response. The comparisons are basically a proxy for Bloom acolytes to announce how proud they are of him, particularly now that Franchy is playing so well. It is OK that both players do well. That is kind of the object of a good trade. They aren't competing against each other in any meaningful way. I’m as much opposed as anyone to repetitive whining about past trades, but surely we don’t begrudge people a comment when one part of a trade starts playing better. As long as they don’t get repetitive and start doing endless victory dances.
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Post by bosoxnation on May 30, 2022 10:55:05 GMT -5
Apologies in advance...but the continued Benintendi / Franchy comparisons have gotten beyond silly. Post what you want, but I am gonna comment this time in response. The comparisons are basically a proxy for Bloom acolytes to announce how proud they are of him, particularly now that Franchy is playing so well. It is OK that both players do well. That is kind of the object of a good trade. They aren't competing against each other in any meaningful way. I have not made a comparison but a lot of us were huge Benintendi fans. This has little to do with Bloom and everything to do with still trying to get over losing him by comparing what we got for him since a lot of people gave up on Franchy and considered this a loss and now it’s looking more like a fair trade which makes most of us excited. Either way a good trade is when we win the trade. This is more like a fair trade now which is amazing after the way it looked a few months ago.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 30, 2022 11:07:39 GMT -5
I love the Franchy comeback story. But remain cautiously optimistic. He has contributed at a position where we were getting nothing. I hope it continues. It's a great story - and who knows, maybe he develops into a significant piece. Seems like he's slowly developing a cult-hero following which I like. Seems humble too. Pretty soon he'll need a chant like they do at football matches in the UK. Coincidence that Bobby and JBJ have started heating up a little as well?
Maybe it's that fire that Franchy's lit under their butts...
EDIT: Franchy is becoming a regular post-game guest on the radio, at least in part because he's a good interview. Nothing profound but his English is good and he's pretty funny. He also calls both Joe and Will "Papi"...
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Post by manfred on May 30, 2022 11:09:20 GMT -5
Apologies in advance...but the continued Benintendi / Franchy comparisons have gotten beyond silly. Post what you want, but I am gonna comment this time in response. The comparisons are basically a proxy for Bloom acolytes to announce how proud they are of him, particularly now that Franchy is playing so well. It is OK that both players do well. That is kind of the object of a good trade. They aren't competing against each other in any meaningful way. I have not made a comparison but a lot of us were huge Benintendi fans. This has little to do with Bloom and everything to do with still trying to get over losing him by comparing what we got for him since a lot of people gave up on Franchy and considered this a loss and now it’s looking more like a fair trade which makes most of us excited. Either way a good trade is when we win the trade. This is more like a fair trade now which is amazing after the way it looked a few months ago. More interesting to me is the possibility that it will be a *consequential* trade. I was ok with trading Benny, but I sort of figured he was toast. And remember… he started badly in KC. I also looked at the return as nothing much. So it was not a big thing… just moving guys of little impact. Now, KC has one of their better players (surprisingly!) — and they may be able to turn him around for future value. And the Sox have a guy who has already helped them win a few games… which I more than I ever expected.
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Post by benzinger on May 30, 2022 11:13:10 GMT -5
Cordero now has the same number of 2B and HR as Benintendi. in 110 fewer plate appearances What happened to Benintendi’s power AND speed??? He was blazing fast when he came up. He was a 20/20 guy in his first full season. Now he’s sitting on 2HR’s and 0SB’s(!) almost 1/3 of the way through the season. What happened to his skill set? When did he morph into Base-hit-endi? 55 hits this season and 45 of them are singles.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 30, 2022 11:16:17 GMT -5
in 110 fewer plate appearances What happened to Benintendi’s power AND speed??? He was blazing fast when he came up. He was a 20/20 guy in his first full season. Now he’s sitting on 2HR’s and 0SB’s(!) almost 1/3 of the way through the season. What happened to his skill set? When did he morph into Base-hit-endi? 55 hits this season and 45 of them are singles. Good one.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 30, 2022 11:35:56 GMT -5
I have not made a comparison but a lot of us were huge Benintendi fans. This has little to do with Bloom and everything to do with still trying to get over losing him by comparing what we got for him since a lot of people gave up on Franchy and considered this a loss and now it’s looking more like a fair trade which makes most of us excited. Either way a good trade is when we win the trade. This is more like a fair trade now which is amazing after the way it looked a few months ago. More interesting to me is the possibility that it will be a *consequential* trade. I was ok with trading Benny, but I sort of figured he was toast. And remember… he started badly in KC. I also looked at the return as nothing much. So it was not a big thing… just moving guys of little impact. Now, KC has one of their better players (surprisingly!) — and they may be able to turn him around for future value. And the Sox have a guy who has already helped them win a few games… which I more than I ever expected. I just remember being amazed that they were able to get anything for Benny. There was a non-zero chance that he was completely toast, as you say. He ended 2019 in a wicked slump and then looked absolutely lost in 2020. Good for him that he turned it around but it's hard to imagine what his path back would've looked like if he had stayed. There's no way you could've gone into 2021 with him as your starting LF. Looking at his stats with KC after 1.5 years and saying "Look, we should've kept him," is a bit myopic, IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 12:15:27 GMT -5
I have not made a comparison but a lot of us were huge Benintendi fans. This has little to do with Bloom and everything to do with still trying to get over losing him by comparing what we got for him since a lot of people gave up on Franchy and considered this a loss and now it’s looking more like a fair trade which makes most of us excited. Either way a good trade is when we win the trade. This is more like a fair trade now which is amazing after the way it looked a few months ago. More interesting to me is the possibility that it will be a *consequential* trade. I was ok with trading Benny, but I sort of figured he was toast. And remember… he started badly in KC. I also looked at the return as nothing much. So it was not a big thing… just moving guys of little impact. Now, KC has one of their better players (surprisingly!) — and they may be able to turn him around for future value. And the Sox have a guy who has already helped them win a few games… which I more than I ever expected. manfred Veteran Feb 10, 2021 at 6:29pm Canseco likes this Quote likePost Options 2018: Benny, (23), JBJ (28), and Mookie (25). February 2021.... all gone. Yeah, maybe this means JBJ will be back. Still. This just sucks. You can say it is for the “future,” but those guys *were* the future. Has any team ever won a WS with a young OF like that and let them go so quickly?
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Post by manfred on May 30, 2022 12:25:20 GMT -5
More interesting to me is the possibility that it will be a *consequential* trade. I was ok with trading Benny, but I sort of figured he was toast. And remember… he started badly in KC. I also looked at the return as nothing much. So it was not a big thing… just moving guys of little impact. Now, KC has one of their better players (surprisingly!) — and they may be able to turn him around for future value. And the Sox have a guy who has already helped them win a few games… which I more than I ever expected. manfred Veteran Feb 10, 2021 at 6:29pm Canseco likes this Quote likePost Options 2018: Benny, (23), JBJ (28), and Mookie (25). February 2021.... all gone. Yeah, maybe this means JBJ will be back. Still. This just sucks. You can say it is for the “future,” but those guys *were* the future. Has any team ever won a WS with a young OF like that and let them go so quickly? And…? I think it remains fair to say that an outfield of Benny, JBJ, and Mookie would look pretty good, no? And that it sucks having to part with them? And that going from a young outfield to a patchwork one is a bummer? What is the point? And… I haven’t mentioned any of that stuff because people don’t want to keep going over it, but our starting OF is still Verdugo (-.5 bWAR), Kiké (.5 bWAR), and Jackie (.5 bWAR)… which doesn’t exactly scream “next big thing.” So… I stand by that post.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 12:38:17 GMT -5
manfred Veteran Feb 10, 2021 at 6:29pm Canseco likes this Quote likePost Options 2018: Benny, (23), JBJ (28), and Mookie (25). February 2021.... all gone. Yeah, maybe this means JBJ will be back. Still. This just sucks. You can say it is for the “future,” but those guys *were* the future. Has any team ever won a WS with a young OF like that and let them go so quickly? And…? I think it remains fair to say that an outfield of Benny, JBJ, and Mookie would look pretty good, no? And that it sucks having to part with them? And that going from a young outfield to a patchwork one is a bummer? What is the point? And… I haven’t mentioned any of that stuff because people don’t want to keep going over it, but our starting OF is still Verdugo (-.5 bWAR), Kiké (.5 bWAR), and Jackie (.5 bWAR)… which doesn’t exactly scream “next big thing.” So… I stand by that post. incandenza said: :Ignoring the return for Benintendi (since we don't know it yet), and supposing this lets them sign JBJ... has this move made the major league team better? A Verdugo, JBJ, Renfroe/Cordero/Kiké outfield, with Duran knocking on the door... I don't think it's any *worse* at least. manfred said: !!! Is it worse than it was 2 years ago? Is it forward thinking? It’s a hosge-podge. Basically, the next great Sox team needs another OF overhaul. Great. ematz1423 said: Obviously it's worse than it was two years ago. We get it your not over the mookie deal. After 44 pages of this Franchy positive comparisons are justified.
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Post by manfred on May 30, 2022 12:53:01 GMT -5
And…? I think it remains fair to say that an outfield of Benny, JBJ, and Mookie would look pretty good, no? And that it sucks having to part with them? And that going from a young outfield to a patchwork one is a bummer? What is the point? And… I haven’t mentioned any of that stuff because people don’t want to keep going over it, but our starting OF is still Verdugo (-.5 bWAR), Kiké (.5 bWAR), and Jackie (.5 bWAR)… which doesn’t exactly scream “next big thing.” So… I stand by that post. incandenza said: :Ignoring the return for Benintendi (since we don't know it yet), and supposing this lets them sign JBJ... has this move made the major league team better? A Verdugo, JBJ, Renfroe/Cordero/Kiké outfield, with Duran knocking on the door... I don't think it's any *worse* at least. manfred said: !!! Is it worse than it was 2 years ago? Is it forward thinking? It’s a hosge-podge. Basically, the next great Sox team needs another OF overhaul. Great. ematz1423 said: Obviously it's worse than it was two years ago. We get it your not over the mookie deal. After 44 pages of this Franchy positive comparisons are justified. Still not getting your point.
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Post by incandenza on May 30, 2022 12:53:06 GMT -5
manfred Veteran Feb 10, 2021 at 6:29pm Canseco likes this Quote likePost Options 2018: Benny, (23), JBJ (28), and Mookie (25). February 2021.... all gone. Yeah, maybe this means JBJ will be back. Still. This just sucks. You can say it is for the âfuture,â but those guys *were* the future. Has any team ever won a WS with a young OF like that and let them go so quickly? Andâ¦? I think it remains fair to say that an outfield of Benny, JBJ, and Mookie would look pretty good, no? And that it sucks having to part with them? And that going from a young outfield to a patchwork one is a bummer? What is the point? And⦠I havenât mentioned any of that stuff because people donât want to keep going over it, but our starting OF is still Verdugo (-.5 bWAR), Kiké (.5 bWAR), and Jackie (.5 bWAR)⦠which doesnât exactly scream ânext big thing.â So⦠I stand by that post. I know this is repetitive and I'm not going to get into the weeds here, but just to update the old thought experiment...
In a world where the Red Sox keep Betts, Benintendi, and JBJ:
- no Verdugo, Kiké, or Franchy - no Downs, Wong, Binelas, Hamilton, Winckowski (5 of the team's top 30 prospects), or the 3 other lottery tickets from the Benintendi trade - ~$46 million in salary commitments to the three outfielders, about $35 million more than they owe to Verdugo/Kiké/Franchy. So, safe to say, no Story; and let's say no Paxton either.
Honestly, the lineup would look pretty good (though top-heavy). The middle infield would look weaker, down into the upper minors. And there'd be that much less hope of keeping Bogaerts and Devers around with all the money committed to Mookie. It's when those guys left and Mookie gets into his decline years that this approach would bite - basically 2025 and beyond.
So yes, it was "for the future." The strategy already paid dividends in 2021 (the Sox outfield was better than Betts + Beni + JBJ last season), and should pay the most dividends in 2025 and beyond.
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Post by jimed14 on May 30, 2022 13:31:18 GMT -5
Apologies in advance...but the continued Benintendi / Franchy comparisons have gotten beyond silly. Post what you want, but I am gonna comment this time in response. The comparisons are basically a proxy for Bloom acolytes to announce how proud they are of him, particularly now that Franchy is playing so well. It is OK that both players do well. That is kind of the object of a good trade. They aren't competing against each other in any meaningful way. Were you saying this to all the people bitching about trading Benintendi when he had a .500 BABIP to start the season? Turnabout is fair play.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 30, 2022 15:03:26 GMT -5
Hernandez Devers Martinez Bogaerts Verdugo Story Cordero Vazquez Bradley Jr
Win the game, win the series. Keep stringing series together and we’ll be in good shape
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 30, 2022 16:45:51 GMT -5
Andâ¦? I think it remains fair to say that an outfield of Benny, JBJ, and Mookie would look pretty good, no? And that it sucks having to part with them? And that going from a young outfield to a patchwork one is a bummer? What is the point? And⦠I havenât mentioned any of that stuff because people donât want to keep going over it, but our starting OF is still Verdugo (-.5 bWAR), Kiké (.5 bWAR), and Jackie (.5 bWAR)⦠which doesnât exactly scream ânext big thing.â So⦠I stand by that post. I know this is repetitive and I'm not going to get into the weeds here, but just to update the old thought experiment...
In a world where the Red Sox keep Betts, Benintendi, and JBJ:
- no Verdugo, Kiké, or Franchy - no Downs, Wong, Binelas, Hamilton, Winckowski (5 of the team's top 30 prospects), or the 3 other lottery tickets from the Benintendi trade - ~$46 million in salary commitments to the three outfielders, about $35 million more than they owe to Verdugo/Kiké/Franchy. So, safe to say, no Story; and let's say no Paxton either.
Honestly, the lineup would look pretty good (though top-heavy). The middle infield would look weaker, down into the upper minors. And there'd be that much less hope of keeping Bogaerts and Devers around with all the money committed to Mookie. It's when those guys left and Mookie gets into his decline years that this approach would bite - basically 2025 and beyond.
So yes, it was "for the future." The strategy already paid dividends in 2021 (the Sox outfield was better than Betts + Beni + JBJ last season), and should pay the most dividends in 2025 and beyond.
^This.
Don't forget Price in the bullpen at $32m per for 2021-22 ($16m more than what they're already paying, but still...). Also no Sale extension (it's a loss thus far but still 2.5 years to go).
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Post by jimed14 on May 30, 2022 16:51:09 GMT -5
I don't even understand why people are upset at not keeping JBJ and Benintendi. They both fell off a cliff. Just because they slightly improved doesn't mean it would have been smart to keep them the whole time and it doesn't mean they would have played any differently. I guess they're just mad that we can't have a 2018 season every year.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 30, 2022 16:55:50 GMT -5
Hernandez Devers Martinez Bogaerts Verdugo Story Cordero Vazquez Bradley Jr Win the game, win the series. Keep stringing series together and we’ll be in good shape Someone on the radio related a story about Tommy Lasorda telling his team, which had slumped early in the season, that if they just picked up a game in the standings every week, they would be fine. The MFYs will not play .700 ball all year and the same roster has shown that they are perfectly capable of going in the tank for a few weeks. I'd rather peak in August and September than in April and May.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 30, 2022 17:18:24 GMT -5
Apologies in advance...but the continued Benintendi / Franchy comparisons have gotten beyond silly. Post what you want, but I am gonna comment this time in response. The comparisons are basically a proxy for Bloom acolytes to announce how proud they are of him, particularly now that Franchy is playing so well. It is OK that both players do well. That is kind of the object of a good trade. They aren't competing against each other in any meaningful way. Were you saying this to all the people bitching about trading Benintendi when he had a .500 BABIP to start the season? Turnabout is fair play. That is fair. I kind of acknowledge that in my last sentence. There was a bigger difference then because Franchy wasn't even in the big leagues. Benintendi did some good things for us. I guess i view these posts as being knocks on him along with the previous Bloom take (which is unintentionally inflammatory). I hope Franchy becomes a solid player for us, and I hope Benni does well also. It is hard to forget his amazing catch.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 30, 2022 18:17:37 GMT -5
Not an ideal start
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Post by GyIantosca on May 30, 2022 18:19:26 GMT -5
He throwing meatballs today.
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