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7/7-7/10 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series Thread
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Post by redsox43 on Jul 7, 2022 21:28:06 GMT -5
The Yankees have turned into the 2017 Yankees all over again with Betances, Miller, and Chapman at the back end of the bullpen.
You better hope you're winning in innings 1-5 or 6 or your chances of winning of slim to none.
They have yet to get a blown save in the ninth inning this year.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 7, 2022 21:28:51 GMT -5
Red Sox rotation currently: Pivetta Winckowski Seabold ?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Hypothetical playoff rotation: Sale Eovaldi Paxton Pivetta Paxton at 37 'might' be a bullpen arm, but not a starter. Sale...we'll see, but his stuff apparently has regressed...which is understandable given TJ, repetitive injuries plus passed prime age. This is not our year. Xander can opt out. JD trending down...no power. If we wait, those guys will be gone for nothing. Let's make some deals and recoup something for a 2024 run. I'm totally baffled by this whole line of thinking. The Red Sox are in first wild card position and still people won't stop talking about how desperately they want to make the team worse. I just have to wonder how little adversity someone must have faced in their life to want to quit so easily because of a 10-game stretch that doesn't go just precisely how they want it to.
ADD: On reflection, I guess I should acknowledge that other people might have slightly different ways of expressing frustration about losing a baseball game than I do, and hereby retract any statements about others' moral virtue that may have been injudiciously issued as part of my own way of expressing frustration at losing a baseball game. Ahem.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jul 7, 2022 21:30:40 GMT -5
In a century in which we've put a lot of hurtin' on the MFY and their dopey fans, we would take it to a new level if we sneak into the PS with an 85-win season and send their 111-win team packing.
That's all I have.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 7, 2022 21:34:15 GMT -5
Red Sox rotation currently:
Pivetta Winckowski Seabold ?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hypothetical playoff rotation:
Sale Eovaldi Paxton Pivetta I think expecting Paxton to be a reliable starter coming back from TJ surgery just feels like wish casting. Wacha is a fine option, though. It's a hypothetical rotation. Heck, it's possible Sale and Eovaldi never come back from their injuries. But any championship team is, by definition, lucky. The point is just that the roster may look very different in October than it does now.
Anyways, what even is a starter or a reliever in the playoffs anymore. You just need like 6 or 7 good pitchers to rack up the innings you need, and between these guys, Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, and like Strahm or whoever looks good in a couple months the Red Sox could be able to make a strong playoff run - at least as strong as the 88 win Braves were last year.
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Post by benzinger on Jul 7, 2022 21:35:43 GMT -5
Paxton at 37 'might' be a bullpen arm, but not a starter. Sale...we'll see, but his stuff apparently has regressed...which is understandable given TJ, repetitive injuries plus passed prime age. This is not our year. Xander can opt out. JD trending down...no power. If we wait, those guys will be gone for nothing. Let's make some deals and recoup something for a 2024 run. I'm totally baffled by this whole line of thinking. The Red Sox are in first wild card position and still people won't stop talking about how desperately they want to make the team worse. I just have to wonder how little adversity someone must have faced in their life to want to quit so easily because of a 10-game stretch that doesn't go just precisely how they want it to. It’s not just this 10 game stretch, though. The Red Sox clearly aren’t in the same league as the Yankees this year. Same with Houston. They can’t beat Toronto or TB, either. They’ve feasted on shitty teams in the AL West and Central, but can’t beat the good teams. That formula won’t work in October. I’m not sure the best move is to trade everyone, but it’s naive to think they are a real contender this year.
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Post by manfred on Jul 7, 2022 21:38:49 GMT -5
I get that JBJ has probably reached the end, but riddle me this: what is the difference between JBJ and Verdugo? Only JBJ went into today with either an oWAR OR dWAR in the positives. Verdugo is a 0 oWAR, a -.2 dWAR. At least Jackie can field.
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Post by benzinger on Jul 7, 2022 21:41:41 GMT -5
I get that JBJ has probably reached the end, but riddle me this: what is the difference between JBJ and Verdugo? Only JBJ went into today with either an oWAR OR dWAR in the positives. Verdugo is a 0 oWAR, a -.2 dWAR. At least Jackie can field. The sad part is that Cora doesn’t think JBJ has “reached the end “at all. He still starts against every single RHP as if he’s on the verge of turning it around. Truly the definition of insanity.
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Post by manfred on Jul 7, 2022 21:43:12 GMT -5
I get that JBJ has probably reached the end, but riddle me this: what is the difference between JBJ and Verdugo? Only JBJ went into today with either an oWAR OR dWAR in the positives. Verdugo is a 0 oWAR, a -.2 dWAR. At least Jackie can field. The sad part is that Cora doesn’t think JBJ has “reached the end “at all. He still starts against every single RHP as if he’s on the verge of turning it around. Truly the definition of insanity. In fairness to Cora, they are not swimming in OFers.
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Post by tizzle on Jul 7, 2022 21:44:12 GMT -5
I think expecting Paxton to be a reliable starter coming back from TJ surgery just feels like wish casting. Wacha is a fine option, though. It's a hypothetical rotation. Heck, it's possible Sale and Eovaldi never come back from their injuries. But any championship team is, by definition, lucky. The point is just that the roster may look very different in October than it does now.
Anyways, what even is a starter or a reliever in the playoffs anymore. You just need like 6 or 7 good pitchers to rack up the innings you need, and between these guys, Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, and like Strahm or whoever looks good in a couple months the Red Sox could be able to make a strong playoff run - at least as strong as the 88 win Braves were last year.
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with your main point. Just I don't expect anything from Paxton this year. I've seen too many guys coming back from TJ surgery over the years. They are always disappointments in that first year.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 7, 2022 21:44:20 GMT -5
I'm totally baffled by this whole line of thinking. The Red Sox are in first wild card position and still people won't stop talking about how desperately they want to make the team worse. I just have to wonder how little adversity someone must have faced in their life to want to quit so easily because of a 10-game stretch that doesn't go just precisely how they want it to. It’s not just this 10 game stretch, though. The Red Sox clearly aren’t in the same league as the Yankees this year. Same with Houston. They can’t beat Toronto or TB, either. They’ve feasted on shitty teams in the AL Weat and Central, but can’t beat the good teams. That formula won’t work in October. I’m not sure the best move is to trade everyone, but it’s naive to think they are a real contender this year. Were the Braves in the same league as the Dodgers or the Giants last year?
For that matter were the Red Sox in the same league as the Rays last year? They finished 8 games behind them.
Was anyone in the same league as the 116-win Mariners team in 2001?
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jul 7, 2022 21:57:42 GMT -5
It's a hypothetical rotation. Heck, it's possible Sale and Eovaldi never come back from their injuries. But any championship team is, by definition, lucky. The point is just that the roster may look very different in October than it does now.
Anyways, what even is a starter or a reliever in the playoffs anymore. You just need like 6 or 7 good pitchers to rack up the innings you need, and between these guys, Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, and like Strahm or whoever looks good in a couple months the Red Sox could be able to make a strong playoff run - at least as strong as the 88 win Braves were last year.
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with your main point. Just I don't expect anything from Paxton this year. I've seen too many guys coming back from TJ surgery over the years. They are always disappointments in that first year. Agreed, IMO Paxton was signed much more for 2023 and 2024. I don’t think Bloom expected much from Paxton in 2022, but he did from Sale.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jul 7, 2022 22:15:48 GMT -5
A serious question: Is it more likely that we squeeze out a win in this series or that we get swept? I know what I think, given the P matchups and the relative talent levels of the two teams. You?
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Post by manfred on Jul 7, 2022 22:22:17 GMT -5
A serious question: Is it more likely that we squeeze out a win in this series or that we get swept? I know what I think, given the P matchups and the relative talent levels of the two teams. You? I will be shocked if the Yankees sweep. I don’t care about pitching matchups. The Sox will put runs up in at least one game.
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Post by e on Jul 7, 2022 22:26:27 GMT -5
Cole and the Yankees carved Duran up today. Just a heavy dose of fastballs up and middle/away. I think Cole threw only 2-3 off-speed pitches to Duran the entire game. We know he had problems with high fastballs last year, and for some reason nobody has challenged up there until tonight.
Interested to see if Yankees stick to the same game plan and/or Duran can find a way to adjust. Really hoping he figures out a way to handle high heat, think it will be the key to him becoming a great player.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 7, 2022 22:39:57 GMT -5
This was rough to watch. If they can't start winning vs teams in the division they're better off selling at the deadline and playing the long game. Maybe not Devers but Xander JD and Nate for sure. Basically any pending FAs.
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Post by redsox43 on Jul 7, 2022 22:49:26 GMT -5
Cole and the Yankees carved Duran up today. Just a heavy dose of fastballs up and middle/away. I think Cole threw only 2-3 off-speed pitches to Duran the entire game. We know he had problems with high fastballs last year, and for some reason nobody has challenged up there until tonight. Interested to see if Yankees stick to the same game plan and/or Duran can find a way to adjust. Really hoping he figures out a way to handle high heat, think it will be the key to him becoming a great player. Might have been the most interesting component to the game. Made the conversation of Verdugo versus Duran more interesting. If Duran can't handle velocity, he'll eventually get exposed. Since he's playing well on the season, the Sox could use him as a trade piece. I've been a huge Duran supporter, because like Manfred said, the Sox need outfielders. The Sox need cheap controllable pieces, too. If they can't play, then trade them when they have value. I'll trust Bloom's evaluation with it and hopefully it works out.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 7, 2022 23:11:21 GMT -5
In a century in which we've put a lot of hurtin' on the MFY and their dopey fans, we would take it to a new level if we sneak into the PS with an 85-win season and send their 111-win team packing. That's all I have. Yes, being the turd in the Yankee punchbowl is about all we can dream about - doing to them sort of what the NY Giants did to the Patriots in Feb 2008. I think what is striking to me about the Yankees this year is how airtight their late inning leads have been. They really swindled the Pirates with Holmes. Add King and that's an impenetrable 1-2 punch. Then contrast that with how many 9th inning leads and extra inning losses the Sox have had, all of those walk-off losses in particular. The Yankees have been fortunate that all 5 starters have stayed healthy, but they've all pitched well, Cole, Tallon, Severino, Cortes, and Montgomery. The Yankees offense is hardly Murderers' Row, but it's highly effective. This Yankees team kind of reminds me of the 2018 Red Sox. They got off to a great start and fed off that momentum, where the confidence was growing each day, where somebody out of nowhere would step in and do the job, where they'd get the clutch hit or record the clutch out, where they were hungry after getting knocked out of the playoffs. That was the 2018 Red Sox and the 2022 Yankees are reminding me of them. They remind me more of the 2018 Sox than the 1998 Yankees who were simply a juggernaut, the best team of their dynasty. My guess is the Yankees keep on rolling, and wind up with Benintendi in LF at the trade deadline. What would make me laugh is the thought of the Sox losing every damn series of the year against the AL East, and because of that having to settle for 4th, getting to avoid TB and Toronto in the WC round, and then avoiding the Yankees in the ALDS round, and then finally winning a series against an AL East (Yankees probably unless Toronto or TB upsets them) opponent in the ALCS and then beating the Mets in the World Series (just because they owe them one for 1986 and wouldn't in be awesome to beat NY in both the ALCS and World Series?) That's the fantasy anyways. The reality is that the Yankees look like they mean business this year. I have a bad feeling about it. Hope I'm wrong. I just hope that if the Yankees do win, that the Sox aren't part of their post-season path.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 7, 2022 23:15:02 GMT -5
Yeah… the two big pieces coming back from the Benintendi trade haunted us today. That trade never made any sense.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 8, 2022 4:18:00 GMT -5
Yeah… the two big pieces coming back from the Benintendi trade haunted us today. That trade never made any sense. The trade was meant to trade salary on a player who was continuing to decrease for the most we can get. What don’t people understand about a fresh start. Benny needed that. Josh and Franchy have been good for us this year. Both are still young and we have years of control and Benny is a FA at the end of this season. The best part is we can always sign him and bring him back!
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 8, 2022 6:30:05 GMT -5
Yeah… the two big pieces coming back from the Benintendi trade haunted us today. That trade never made any sense. The trade was meant to trade salary on a player who was continuing to decrease for the most we can get. What don’t people understand about a fresh start. Benny needed that. Josh and Franchy have been good for us this year. Both are still young and we have years of control and Benny is a FA at the end of this season. The best part is we can always sign him and bring him back! Franchy is only under control one more year and Winck has a low ceiling. Benintendi had a bad year but was still really young and they basically sold as low as they possibly could have.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 8, 2022 7:22:43 GMT -5
Xander for Nolan Gorman. Who says no? Xander looks like he's gone after this year and Gorman is a stud thats playing part time currently and has a lot of power for a middle infielder. Move Story to SS. Maybe expand the deal to JD Nate and Xander for Gorman and Libratore?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 8, 2022 7:23:38 GMT -5
The trade was meant to trade salary on a player who was continuing to decrease for the most we can get. What don’t people understand about a fresh start. Benny needed that. Josh and Franchy have been good for us this year. Both are still young and we have years of control and Benny is a FA at the end of this season. The best part is we can always sign him and bring him back! Franchy is only under control one more year and Winck has a low ceiling. Benintendi had a bad year but was still really young and they basically sold as low as they possibly could have. Ultimately, yeah. What Benintendi really needed was health and a consistent approach. Cora mentioned that he kind of sold out for more power in 2019 and that's not who he is. In 2020 he was injured. Last year he started to change his approach to being an OBP guy and less of a guy trying for power and now that's what he is. A guy who can hit and get on base but is clearly not a middle of the order guy but a leadoff/#2 OBP guy atop the order. In a world where it's 3 true outcomes and nobody hits and the only way for a lot of guys to get on base is to walk because they can't hit their way on, Benintendi is kind of breath of fresh air. I suspect the Royals will get more for the Benintendi rental than Bloom got for him. Cordero is ok, but I don't think anybody pencils him into the DH/1b/corner OF spot as a regular. Winckoski will be one of those hybrid pitchers, nice to have, will have some value, but is kind of fungible - at his best, he's a #5 starter, but more likely he's a 5th/6th inning guy who can get 6 - 9 outs. De La Rosa is the only other guy I have hope for, but his stuff is pedestrian from what I read. The other two guys won't amount to anything. The Red Sox gambled that they could find quality in the quantity for Benintendi. While they won't leave completely empty handed, it's highly possible that the Sox would do better in a deadline deal, but given their situation, they'd probably get nothing but maybe a compensation pick for him anyways as they'd have the value of him playing this season in LF (with Verdugo in RF, rather than JBJ getting all of those ABs) and leaving as a free agent.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 8, 2022 7:28:47 GMT -5
Paxton at 37 'might' be a bullpen arm, but not a starter. Sale...we'll see, but his stuff apparently has regressed...which is understandable given TJ, repetitive injuries plus passed prime age. This is not our year. Xander can opt out. JD trending down...no power. If we wait, those guys will be gone for nothing. Let's make some deals and recoup something for a 2024 run. Just an fyi but Paxton is 33. Turning 34 in November.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,646
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Post by cdj on Jul 8, 2022 7:59:30 GMT -5
Cole and the Yankees carved Duran up today. Just a heavy dose of fastballs up and middle/away. I think Cole threw only 2-3 off-speed pitches to Duran the entire game. We know he had problems with high fastballs last year, and for some reason nobody has challenged up there until tonight. Interested to see if Yankees stick to the same game plan and/or Duran can find a way to adjust. Really hoping he figures out a way to handle high heat, think it will be the key to him becoming a great player. The way he looked on them has me baffled that other teams haven’t pitched him like that this season
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,646
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Post by cdj on Jul 8, 2022 8:01:45 GMT -5
So really Winckowski had one terrible inning against the best team in baseballs top of the order and everybody is down on him again and he has no ceiling and no future as a SP lol
With the stuff LDLR was showing in Salem I do LDLR/Franchy/Winckowski for Benintendi in a heartbeat. You can even forget the other two scratch tickets.
If Winckowski sticks as a 5 the trade is a win. You have a Cost-controlled starting pitcher for years. Everything else is gravy.
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