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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Jan 7, 2023 10:23:47 GMT -5
Had a thought recently that they might just start the season as is in the infield. Let things play out, see how Arroyo and Story and Valdez do. Then if there’s under performance or an injury they make a trade for a guy. Hard to imagine there’s much of a difference in outcomes if you have a full season vs half a season of like Rojas or Iglesias. That being said, this is almost exactly what I thought about starting the season with JBJ last year. I’d still much prefer they not leave a clear hole on the roster going into the season, but I guess I’m saying if we’re shopping in the Iglesias tier anyways it doesn’t make that big a difference. The difference entering the 2023 season vs. 2022 is that expectations of the team are generally lower. At this point the Devers signing feels like the 2023 victory and a contender for a playoff spot would be icing on the cake ! Going in to 2022 my outlook was the Sox should be contenders for a deep playoff run and why on earth did they deal Renfroe and not sign Shwarber ?? Very disappointed.... Going in to 2023 feels like OK we are in full rebuild with Raffy at the center and that is OK. So, sure, lets see what Story has left as a SS and if Valdez was a steal from the perpetually deep Astro's system. That feels fun ! Iglesias or Andrus feels Ho Hum....
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 7, 2023 10:24:52 GMT -5
Had a thought recently that they might just start the season as is in the infield. Let things play out, see how Arroyo and Story and Valdez do. Then if there’s under performance or an injury they make a trade for a guy. Hard to imagine there’s much of a difference in outcomes if you have a full season vs half a season of like Rojas or Iglesias. That being said, this is almost exactly what I thought about starting the season with JBJ last year. I’d still much prefer they not leave a clear hole on the roster going into the season, but I guess I’m saying if we’re shopping in the Iglesias tier anyways it doesn’t make that big a difference. Why you got to disrespect Iglesias like that? I think Bloom really wants Rojas. He ranked 2nd in defensive runs saved but he can be horrible at the plate. If we can pull off López and Rojas then we add a number 3 starter as well. I’m interested if Bloom can pull that off and what that would cost. Don't really see how they could get both Lopez and Rojas for anything that doesn't include Casas which I don't want them to do. If they could do it for a deal headlined by Rafaela I wouldn't be against it.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 7, 2023 10:27:54 GMT -5
Had a thought recently that they might just start the season as is in the infield. Let things play out, see how Arroyo and Story and Valdez do. Then if there’s under performance or an injury they make a trade for a guy. Hard to imagine there’s much of a difference in outcomes if you have a full season vs half a season of like Rojas or Iglesias. That being said, this is almost exactly what I thought about starting the season with JBJ last year. I’d still much prefer they not leave a clear hole on the roster going into the season, but I guess I’m saying if we’re shopping in the Iglesias tier anyways it doesn’t make that big a difference. Why you got to disrespect Iglesias like that? I think Bloom really wants Rojas. He ranked 2nd in defensive runs saved but he can be horrible at the plate. If we can pull off López and Rojas then we add a number 3 starter as well. I’m interested if Bloom can pull that off and what that would cost. Yeah like I said I want them to get one of those guys. But they aren’t really even meaningfully better than Arroyo necessarily, it’s just he always gets hurt and they need the depth there IMO.
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Post by cmax on Jan 7, 2023 10:53:50 GMT -5
I'm surprised everyone seems to have given up on Duran. Yes, last year was disappointing for sure. If the team rolls with Story and Arroyo as the middle infield to begin the year. Hernandez can also play solid short and second, and Duran may be able to step into his potential this year. Worth remembering Hernandez was brought here to be a Second Baseman with versatility and at this time last year Duran was a top 100 prospect everyone was excited about. Maybe the rule changes that support speed will make Duran an even more valuable catalyst. It seems to me that if he can get his confidence at this level, he can be a dynamic player.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 7, 2023 10:58:39 GMT -5
I'm surprised everyone seems to have given up on Duran. Yes, last year was disappointing for sure. If the team rolls with Story and Arroyo as the middle infield to begin the year. Hernandez can also play solid short and second, and Duran may be able to step into his potential this year. Worth remembering Hernandez was brought here to be a Second Baseman with versatility and at this time last year Duran was a top 100 prospect everyone was excited about. Maybe the rule changes that support speed will make Duran an even more valuable catalyst. It seems to me that if he can get his confidence at this level, he can be a dynamic player. An outfield of Yoshida/Duran/Verdugo would make for an atrocious outfield defense. Duran is a horrific centerfielder. Yoshida is a fringy LF who has spent a lot of time DHing. Verdugo is a LF playing half his games in the toughest park to play RF in. No, they need a legit CF. And unless they rush Rafaela, to his detriment, I dont see anybody else but Hernandez playing CF.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 7, 2023 11:03:56 GMT -5
Hardly ideal but maybe there is another option.
If they move Kiké to SS and keep Story at 2b, maybe they sign Adam Duvall for CF? Pollack is the only other guy who might be able to handle CF?
And these two might be lousy defensive CF options and if they are, other than as a backup, Bloom shouldn't pursue it.
I do think either would be better than Duran if it did come down to Kiké having to play SS.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Jan 7, 2023 11:06:45 GMT -5
I'm surprised everyone seems to have given up on Duran. Yes, last year was disappointing for sure. If the team rolls with Story and Arroyo as the middle infield to begin the year. Hernandez can also play solid short and second, and Duran may be able to step into his potential this year. Worth remembering Hernandez was brought here to be a Second Baseman with versatility and at this time last year Duran was a top 100 prospect everyone was excited about. Maybe the rule changes that support speed will make Duran an even more valuable catalyst. It seems to me that if he can get his confidence at this level, he can be a dynamic player. It would be great if one of the 2023 success stories is Duran legitimately coming to life at the plate. But as a CF, the experiment failed and needs to end. If he is not traded, I would like to see him return to the IF at AA or AAA and try to rediscover himself.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jan 7, 2023 11:49:30 GMT -5
I'm surprised everyone seems to have given up on Duran. Yes, last year was disappointing for sure. If the team rolls with Story and Arroyo as the middle infield to begin the year. Hernandez can also play solid short and second, and Duran may be able to step into his potential this year. Worth remembering Hernandez was brought here to be a Second Baseman with versatility and at this time last year Duran was a top 100 prospect everyone was excited about. Maybe the rule changes that support speed will make Duran an even more valuable catalyst. It seems to me that if he can get his confidence at this level, he can be a dynamic player. It would be great if one of the 2023 success stories is Duran legitimately coming to life at the plate. But as a CF, the experiment failed and needs to end. If he is not traded, I would like to see him return to the IF at AA or AAA and try to rediscover himself. Duran is a workaholic. Yes maybe he looked bad out there this season but he can improve he has the speed. I think with him we should consider just starting him in CF at AAA full time until there’s an injury where we need to call him up. At that point he will have probably his last chance to prove he belongs. If he can breakout this year which is very possible then it could be huge for us.
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Post by patford on Jan 7, 2023 20:51:49 GMT -5
It would be great if one of the 2023 success stories is Duran legitimately coming to life at the plate. But as a CF, the experiment failed and needs to end. If he is not traded, I would like to see him return to the IF at AA or AAA and try to rediscover himself. Duran is a workaholic. Yes maybe he looked bad out there this season but he can improve he has the speed. I think with him we should consider just starting him in CF at AAA full time until there’s an injury where we need to call him up. At that point he will have probably his last chance to prove he belongs. If he can breakout this year which is very possible then it could be huge for us. Duran may hit. It would not surprise me. He will never be more than an average at best outfielder. Routes and reads can't be taught. Not to say with experience a player can't improve but he's been in CF for quite some time now and he just does not have the instincts for the position. 2B is the best place for him or maybe LF.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jan 8, 2023 0:04:53 GMT -5
Hardly ideal but maybe there is another option. If they move Kiké to SS and keep Story at 2b, maybe they sign Adam Duvall for CF? Pollack is the only other guy who might be able to handle CF? And these two might be lousy defensive CF options and if they are, other than as a backup, Bloom shouldn't pursue it. I do think either would be better than Duran if it did come down to Kiké having to play SS. Duvall in CF and Kiké at 2B or SS is possibly better than Andrus at SS, if Duvall has a big edge on Andrus in fit to Fenway, and/or in benefiting from no shifts. Both of those are hard to estimate, so for such a low-level decision I'll just trust the team.
Meanwhile, here's an outside the box idea: Javier Baez. He got a stupid contract from the Tigers, and maybe they're stupid enough to try to get out from under the contract by finding someone who will take some part of it off their hands -- fearing that in another year his value drops further and they're stuck with the whole mess. I have no idea how much they'd have to eat before it makes sense for us, but there is obviously an amount where it's a good idea (since all of it would be).
And while I agree that Correa is very unlikely to take another 1-year deal, he might make an exception to rejoin Cora for a year here, especially if there is a chance that his medicals will actually look better a year from now. The Sox could offer him a $20M contract with a $20M player option or $10M buyout, stay under the tax limit this year (by splitting the Devers extension between $17.5M this year and the balance over the following 10 years), and he ends up making $30M and goes back to free agency again. *
I've pointed out that he's overrated because he doesn't hit good pitching as well as expected, and can be counted on to be worth a full 1.0 less that what WAR tells you he is. But he'd still be a serious upgrade over Andrus. I'd actually hit him 9th as a second leadoff hitter, if Kiké can be anything like he was two years ago, second half..
* This trick of splitting a one-year contract into two parts, the second a buyout for the following year that they're sure to take instead of a matching offer for the first half -- that's brilliant. I expect there to be a limit set on option buyouts in the next CBA ... it really is gaming the tax limit system.
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Post by runner on Jan 10, 2023 16:17:42 GMT -5
Story was expected to be the 2023 short stop but might not make it back.
Teams and agents will know the Sox are desperate for a short stop now which is bad for business and leverage.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 10, 2023 17:40:48 GMT -5
not so worried about the leverage aspect of things, they can always tell the other team they’ll just move Kikè there and go get an OF from somebody else. Teams know they need to acquire something, but it’s not necessarily a SS and that gives them a little breathing room in negotiations
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 18:50:36 GMT -5
Was looking at the depth charts for Oakland, Kansas City, and Detroit because they seem like the only AL teams that don’t really care about next year and might be open to getting lower level prospects for players - I thought I was hallucinating when I saw on Fangraphs Nicky Lopez was a near 6 war player in 2021: www.fangraphs.com/players/nicky-lopez/19339/stats?position=2B/SSMaybe a guy on one of those of those teams benefits from playing in Fenway Park instead of the lofty confines of Kaufman, Commerica and the Colliseum. In the meantime, there are some straws on the table in front of me I am currently grasping at.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jan 10, 2023 19:11:17 GMT -5
not so worried about the leverage aspect of things, they can always tell the other team they’ll just move Kikè there and go get an OF from somebody else. Teams know they need to acquire something, but it’s not necessarily a SS and that gives them a little breathing room in negotiations Yes it gives Bloom some wiggle room but if I was the other GM I would stick to my price and see who blinks first. I would think an over pay of some kind would be needed to get either a CF or a SS in a trade for the Sox.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 10, 2023 21:30:45 GMT -5
Story was expected to be the 2023 short stop but might not make it back. Teams and agents will know the Sox are desperate for a short stop now which is bad for business and leverage. Bloom is the one GM that would rather torpedo the season than make a bad deal. We saw that last year with first base and right field. Bloom will not be pressured into a bad deal. Aside from that, 2023 doesn't really matter for this organization. Its another bridge year. So why would you invest in this?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 10, 2023 22:26:16 GMT -5
Story was expected to be the 2023 short stop but might not make it back. Teams and agents will know the Sox are desperate for a short stop now which is bad for business and leverage. Bloom is the one GM that would rather torpedo the season than make a bad deal. We saw that last year with first base and right field. Bloom will not be pressured into a bad deal. Aside from that, 2023 doesn't really matter for this organization. Its another bridge year. So why would you invest in this? Well that's the thing. I don't mind an incremental bad deal but he shouldn't make a damaging bad deal to try to save the season. I have no desire to see 2024 or 2025 or 2026 torpedoed because that's all they really got at this point. The lineup is thin, devoid of power and speed. They will struggle to score runs. Their defense right now looks awful and will undermine a questionable pitching staff. I think this is a 75 - 80 win team that could lose 90 if they get hit hard with injuries. No sense in making a bad deal to try to change that.
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Post by keninten on Jan 10, 2023 22:37:52 GMT -5
I noticed Story was put on the IL for next years projections. Hopefully Rafaela will be projected @ SS for Worcester.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 10, 2023 22:53:14 GMT -5
Funny, the answer to the poll was none of the above. Nobody had that and it wasn't even a choice. I was one of the 38 votes for Story. I'd say Bloom was one of those 38 votes, too, lol.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jan 11, 2023 10:39:24 GMT -5
Funny, the answer to the poll was none of the above. Nobody had that and it wasn't even a choice. I was one of the 38 votes for Story. I'd say Bloom was one of those 38 votes, too, lol. Quite a few pages back I sort of semi-seriously suggested that Rafaela's name wasn't on the board and he could be the opening day SS. Folks said "nope" which was reasonable, but it could be a slightly less dismissible possibility now. I agree that he most likely wouldn't be brought up right away, but for the sake of discussion, suppose Bradley-like lightning struck during ST and they decided to take a flyer, for awhile at least. Which is the better play - Rafaela 8, Kiké 6, or vice versa?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 11, 2023 10:40:44 GMT -5
I guess there is a chance that Niko Goodrum is starting on opening day after all.
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Post by notstarboard on Jan 11, 2023 11:10:49 GMT -5
Funny, the answer to the poll was none of the above. Nobody had that and it wasn't even a choice. I was one of the 38 votes for Story. I'd say Bloom was one of those 38 votes, too, lol. Or Hernandez or Arroyo? If the season started today it would probably be one of them.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Jan 11, 2023 11:13:16 GMT -5
Funny, the answer to the poll was none of the above. Nobody had that and it wasn't even a choice. I was one of the 38 votes for Story. I'd say Bloom was one of those 38 votes, too, lol. Quite a few pages back I sort of semi-seriously suggested that Rafaela's name wasn't on the board and he could be the opening day SS. Folks said "nope" which was reasonable, but it could be a slightly less dismissible possibility now. I agree that he most likely wouldn't be brought up right away, but for the sake of discussion, suppose Bradley-like lightning struck during ST and they decided to take a flyer, for awhile at least. Which is the better play - Rafaela 8, Kiké 6, or vice versa? When was the last year that Hernandez had extensive time playing shortstop? Has he ever played it regularly in the Majors. I can se him playing there a few games a year, but asking him to be the regular shortstop for a full year seems unrealistic to me.
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Post by sibbysisti on Jan 11, 2023 11:48:34 GMT -5
Have to agree with Peter Abraham that Iglesias is the best shortstop available. He should be amenable to a one year deal. This will give the staff a chance to evaluate Cedanne for possible late season service. Can’t see anyone on the current roster stepping in at SS this year.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jan 11, 2023 12:06:54 GMT -5
Have to agree with Peter Abraham that Iglesias is the best shortstop available. He should be amenable to a one year deal. This will give the staff a chance to evaluate Cedanne for possible late season service. Can’t see anyone on the current roster stepping in at SS this year. Andrus is definitely at least a half step up from Iglesias. Iglesias has definitely lost a step or two in his defensive game. With the Story injury, I’m not opposed to signing him as I once was, but it *has* to be prefaced by an Andrus signing or Kim trade.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 11, 2023 12:25:07 GMT -5
Have to agree with Peter Abraham that Iglesias is the best shortstop available. He should be amenable to a one year deal. This will give the staff a chance to evaluate Cedanne for possible late season service. Canât see anyone on the current roster stepping in at SS this year. FWIW Cora seems to like the idea of Kiké playing short stop. Mentioned it today, there are reports earlier saying he was pushing for that previously. Personally, I'm anti that idea because he is so good in center, but I guess if they find a good deal for a centerfielder instead of a short stop it's fine. Also worth noting that at the same time Cora mentioned it may give Duran an opportunity to step up and I have to say if they start the season with Duran as the everyday centerfielder I will be extremely disappointed.
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