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9/5-9/7 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 6, 2022 22:42:33 GMT -5
0 tool Doogs at wRC+ of 106 and climbing, not bad for 0 tools Probably at 115-120 if he got appropriate luck at the beginning of the season A corner OF with no power, no speed and no arm who doesn’t play particularly good defense, either. If you want to find a stat to get excited about, be my guest. I can’t join you in the celebration for Verdugotendi. His Rof per baseballrefence is pretty much league average. Has had above average years, and just below years
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Post by pedroiaesque on Sept 6, 2022 22:59:43 GMT -5
A corner OF with no power, no speed and no arm who doesn’t play particularly good defense, either. If you want to find a stat to get excited about, be my guest. I can’t join you in the celebration for Verdugotendi. His Rof per baseballrefence is pretty much league average. Has had above average years, and just below years Totally jumping into a years long conversation (rant?) here, but is it so bad to have players that are league average (or a bit above without being a superstar)? I get that it’s hard to give up a top 5 player in the entire sport for an average dude, but if he can at least be average, that’s one more position we don’t have to freak out about filling in the next off-season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 7, 2022 0:26:39 GMT -5
The fact that Pham is still batting first just shows you how lost Cora is this year. The guy is a strike out machine. You don’t bat them first. He’s a 6 hitter at best. Vedugo X Devers Story Casas Pham should be our 1-6 He hit .293/.330/.481 in August. Yes, he's been bad this series and in Texas but you make it sound like he's been slumping for a month.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 7, 2022 0:46:16 GMT -5
0 tool Doogs at wRC+ of 106 and climbing, not bad for 0 tools Probably at 115-120 if he got appropriate luck at the beginning of the season A corner OF with no power, no speed and no arm who doesn’t play particularly good defense, either. If you want to find a stat to get excited about, be my guest. I can’t join you in the celebration for Verdugotendi. No arm is news to me, you realize he was a pitcher that threw in the low 90’s yes? Topped out at 97. We just making stuff up now? I like good hitters, he’s a good hitter. We don’t have enough of them and you want to sit here and complain about how he has zero tools He has the most important tool and a lot of it by the way (hit tool)
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Post by bosoxnation on Sept 7, 2022 1:54:14 GMT -5
The fact that Pham is still batting first just shows you how lost Cora is this year. The guy is a strike out machine. You don’t bat them first. He’s a 6 hitter at best. Vedugo X Devers Story Casas Pham should be our 1-6 He hit .293/.330/.481 in August. Yes, he's been bad this series and in Texas but you make it sound like he's been slumping for a month. Wouldn’t that be a nice 6 hitter? I’m not saying he’s been bad im saying you don’t put guys who strike out at 1 in the batting order. In his last 60 ABs he has 20 strike outs. I actually want to resign him but just not bat him 1st.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 7, 2022 5:50:56 GMT -5
The fact that Pham is still batting first just shows you how lost Cora is this year. The guy is a strike out machine. You don’t bat them first. He’s a 6 hitter at best. Vedugo X Devers Story Casas Pham should be our 1-6 He hit .293/.330/.481 in August. Yes, he's been bad this series and in Texas but you make it sound like he's been slumping for a month. Pham is also one of the few Red Sox hitters who historically isnt allergic to taking a walk, something leadoff hitters should do. The only guy who would be a good leadoff hitter is X, but the Sox still think of him as a middle of the order presence. Personally, I like him in the number 2 hole but this year's team is kind of devoid of middle of the order thump, with Devers excepted. As far as strikeouts go, who doesnt strike out a bunch these days and why would it matter? A leadoff hitter will bat once a game with nobody on so it's not like a ground out advances the runner. Working the count makes sense for a leadoff hitter. Pham cam reasonably do that.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 7, 2022 7:57:16 GMT -5
Weren’t some on here clamoring for Bazardo a while back? Be careful what you wish for, folks. It’s certainly not me! From the 40-man roster thread I would've promoted German over Bazardo. I'll always take the guy with the livelier fastball whem it comes to bullpen arms. In all fairness, clamoring might be a stretch, at this point in the season most of us are wanting to see anything except for the same Pinatas the Sox have trotted out for most of the season.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Sept 7, 2022 8:16:49 GMT -5
He hit .293/.330/.481 in August. Yes, he's been bad this series and in Texas but you make it sound like he's been slumping for a month. Wouldn’t that be a nice 6 hitter? I’m not saying he’s been bad im saying you don’t put guys who strike out at 1 in the batting order. In his last 60 ABs he has 20 strike outs. I actually want to resign him but just not bat him 1st. Leadoff is the best place for guys who are decent hitters but strike out a lot. A strikeout to lead off the game is the same as a fly out. A strikeout when there are men in scoring position is generally worse than an out on a fly ball.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 9:05:09 GMT -5
It's too bad the Twins every year seem to just forfeit against the Yankees. Would be nice to see them collapse. Unfortunately, the wrong NY team appears to be poised for embarrassment. I have a theory that every GM right now is trying to build the same team, and the only real differentiators are degrees of player evaluation and development capability and money - which allows a team to buy more of X, be it pitching or offense. All it would take is one smart GM who genuinely knows how to evaluate talent to find the flaw in this 3-true outcome league and build a team to beat it.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 9:08:06 GMT -5
The fact that Pham is still batting first just shows you how lost Cora is this year. The guy is a strike out machine. You don’t bat them first. He’s a 6 hitter at best. Vedugo X Devers Story Casas Pham should be our 1-6 He hit .293/.330/.481 in August. Yes, he's been bad this series and in Texas but you make it sound like he's been slumping for a month. He's had his moments, but he's an aging 1.0 fWAR player. Anyone who thinks he's going back to his 2018-19 self is engaging in magical thinking. I hope this year is the last we see of him unless he's relegated to true back-up 4th or 5th OF role.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 7, 2022 9:16:44 GMT -5
He hit .293/.330/.481 in August. Yes, he's been bad this series and in Texas but you make it sound like he's been slumping for a month. He's had his moments, but he's an aging 1.0 fWAR player. Anyone who thinks he's going back to his 2018-19 self is engaging in magical thinking. I hope this year is the last we see of him unless he's relegated to true back-up 4th or 5th OF role. Hard Agree. He would have helped THIS team if he were here all year. Next years team better not need him.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 7, 2022 9:36:00 GMT -5
It's too bad the Twins every year seem to just forfeit against the Yankees. Would be nice to see them collapse. Unfortunately, the wrong NY team appears to be poised for embarrassment. I have a theory that every GM right now is trying to build the same team, and the only real differentiators are degrees of player evaluation and development capability and money - which allows a team to buy more of X, be it pitching or offense. All it would take is one smart GM who genuinely knows how to evaluate talent to find the flaw in this 3-true outcome league and build a team to beat it. Isn't that Cashman? That team has a ridiculous record of getting out-of-nowhere talent: Trevino, Carpenter, Urshela, Lemahieu, Voit, Cortes, Holmes, Luetge...
Actually, between Kiké, Renfroe, Whitlock, Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, and McGuire, Bloom's piling up a pretty good record too.
ADD: But in general I think you're right that everyone's trying to build the same team in the sense that the margins for gaining an advantage over other teams in terms of talent evaluation are extremely thin. Gone are the days when you could be like "actually, walks are good" and build a juggernaut. There's no One Weird Trick to beating the system in 2022.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 11:12:44 GMT -5
I have a theory that every GM right now is trying to build the same team, and the only real differentiators are degrees of player evaluation and development capability and money - which allows a team to buy more of X, be it pitching or offense. All it would take is one smart GM who genuinely knows how to evaluate talent to find the flaw in this 3-true outcome league and build a team to beat it. Isn't that Cashman? That team has a ridiculous record of getting out-of-nowhere talent: Trevino, Carpenter, Urshela, Lemahieu, Voit, Cortes, Holmes, Luetge... Actually, between Kiké, Renfroe, Whitlock, Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, and McGuire, Bloom's piling up a pretty good record too. ADD: But in general I think you're right that everyone's trying to build the same team in the sense that the margins for gaining an advantage over other teams in terms of talent evaluation are extremely thin. Gone are the days when you could be like "actually, walks are good" and build a juggernaut. There's no One Weird Trick to beating the system in 2022.
This is the part I reject - not you, just the premise. There's always a way. Just because the guys who all seem to be thinking the same haven't thought of it means nothing. It may not be as blunt as early 2000s MoneyBall, but it's out there. ADDED: I keep thinking that the slight edge right now is possessed by the Dodgers for their player evaluation and development. It would cost relative peanuts to double the salaries of 5-8 key individuals and promote them in title and responsibility (and it doesn't count against the tax), and have them integrate their abilities and key decision points into the Sox system. Dispassionately, for Bloom, the timing may be wrong if he thinks he's on a 12-24 month clock. It would likely take 2-3 years to integrate these methods and abilities in the minor leagues, and another year or two to see the fruits of that making the major leagues. BUT, if they stole just the people who evaluate current undervalued MLB and high minor league talent whom they've (repeatedly) identified and "fixed," that would have an immediate impact on this off-season. I'd still add to that whomever the group is that constantly identifies these pitchers they seem to draft low or in the 2nd-5th round who everyone else missed, and who seem to roll up annually to the majors to be average to well above average MLB contributors. Anyway, I believe that is the closest available quick equivalent of John Henry cutting Billy Beane the (at the time) absurd check in 2003 for four years of service.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 7, 2022 12:09:20 GMT -5
Roster page shows Xander, JD and Franchie as injured (but not IL) - any updates? Short bench today at least.
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 7, 2022 13:43:58 GMT -5
Isn't that Cashman? That team has a ridiculous record of getting out-of-nowhere talent: Trevino, Carpenter, Urshela, Lemahieu, Voit, Cortes, Holmes, Luetge... Actually, between Kiké, Renfroe, Whitlock, Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, and McGuire, Bloom's piling up a pretty good record too. ADD: But in general I think you're right that everyone's trying to build the same team in the sense that the margins for gaining an advantage over other teams in terms of talent evaluation are extremely thin. Gone are the days when you could be like "actually, walks are good" and build a juggernaut. There's no One Weird Trick to beating the system in 2022.
This is the part I reject - not you, just the premise. There's always a way. Just because the guys who all seem to be thinking the same haven't thought of it means nothing. It may not be as blunt as early 2000s MoneyBall, but it's out there. ADDED: I keep thinking that the slight edge right now is possessed by the Dodgers for their player evaluation and development. It would cost relative peanuts to double the salaries of 5-8 key individuals and promote them in title and responsibility (and it doesn't count against the tax), and have them integrate their abilities and key decision points into the Sox system. Dispassionately, for Bloom, the timing may be wrong if he thinks he's on a 12-24 month clock. It would likely take 2-3 years to integrate these methods and abilities in the minor leagues, and another year or two to see the fruits of that making the major leagues. BUT, if they stole just the people who evaluate current undervalued MLB and high minor league talent whom they've (repeatedly) identified and "fixed," that would have an immediate impact on this off-season. I'd still add to that whomever the group is that constantly identifies these pitchers they seem to draft low or in the 2nd-5th round who everyone else missed, and who seem to roll up annually to the majors to be average to well above average MLB contributors. Anyway, I believe that is the closest available quick equivalent of John Henry cutting Billy Beane the (at the time) absurd check in 2003 for four years of service. Don’t you think this is what the Red Sox just tried to do with Bloom and the guys I’m sure he brought with him from Tampa?
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 14:06:01 GMT -5
Tampa's another incarnation of the Twins, only more of Tampa's pitchers get injured and for longer IL stints.
My point is, they are all thinking the same except for one team which may be thinking the same but his action of the others in player evaluation. Plus Tampa periodically tanks.
Same thinking that got you into a problem does not get you out. If you want to be different than the crowd, you must think differently, attack their weaknesses and find the difference that matters. Living on the margins only get you so far.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 7, 2022 14:14:02 GMT -5
If a team has some sort of informational advantage over the rest of the league, they're probably not going to tell you, Guidas.
As an aside, Billy Beane doesn't get enough crap for the brilliant strategy of telling best seller machine Michael Lewis how stupid all the other GMs were for a book that would end up getting read by every owner. Although I guess it probably worked out okay for him in the end.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 14:18:52 GMT -5
If a team has some sort of informational advantage over the rest of the league, they're probably not going to tell you, Guidas. As an aside, Billy Beane doesn't get enough crap for the brilliant strategy of telling best seller machine Michael Lewis how stupid all the other GMs were for a book that would end up getting read by every owner. Although I guess it probably worked out okay for him in the end. No, they won't tell you. That's why you hire away their best talent in key areas. THEY'LL tell you. That or you stop hiring all the guys who think the same and you do the hard work of finding people who think differently but in ways that out does the others. Sports, business and warfare all have a history of this. It's not always tech making the changes that create positive disruption, either. Examples for this are pretty ample.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 7, 2022 14:22:31 GMT -5
If a team has some sort of informational advantage over the rest of the league, they're probably not going to tell you, Guidas. As an aside, Billy Beane doesn't get enough crap for the brilliant strategy of telling best seller machine Michael Lewis how stupid all the other GMs were for a book that would end up getting read by every owner. Although I guess it probably worked out okay for him in the end. They also barely touched on having the MVP,the Cy Young, Chavez finishing top 14 in MVP, and both Hudson and Mulder being damn good.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 7, 2022 14:25:18 GMT -5
If a team has some sort of informational advantage over the rest of the league, they're probably not going to tell you, Guidas. As an aside, Billy Beane doesn't get enough crap for the brilliant strategy of telling best seller machine Michael Lewis how stupid all the other GMs were for a book that would end up getting read by every owner. Although I guess it probably worked out okay for him in the end. No, they won't tell you. That's why you hire away their best talent in key areas. THEY'LL tell you. That or you stop hiring all the guys who think the same and you do the hard work of finding people who think differently but in ways that out does the others. Sports, business and warfare all have a history of this. It's not always tech making the changes that create positive disruption, either. Examples for this are pretty ample. If you really believe this then I'll ask you to stop fretting every time there's a report of disagreement within the organization about the direction of the organization. Diversity of thought is a virtue, right?
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 14:28:02 GMT -5
If a team has some sort of informational advantage over the rest of the league, they're probably not going to tell you, Guidas. As an aside, Billy Beane doesn't get enough crap for the brilliant strategy of telling best seller machine Michael Lewis how stupid all the other GMs were for a book that would end up getting read by every owner. Although I guess it probably worked out okay for him in the end. They also barely touched on having the MVP,the Cy Young, Chavez finishing top 14 in MVP, and both Hudson and Mulder being damn good. And why didn't all the other teams draft and developed those guys? I'm not saying Billy Beane was Galactus. I just cited him as a disrupter who changed team construction. He approached the problem differently, and committed to it, in an industry that was notoriously sure there was no other way to do things.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 14:32:56 GMT -5
No, they won't tell you. That's why you hire away their best talent in key areas. THEY'LL tell you. That or you stop hiring all the guys who think the same and you do the hard work of finding people who think differently but in ways that out does the others. Sports, business and warfare all have a history of this. It's not always tech making the changes that create positive disruption, either. Examples for this are pretty ample. If you really believe this then I'll ask you to stop fretting every time there's a report of disagreement within the organization about the direction of the organization. Diversity of thought is a virtue, right? Always question until the methods prove the strategy and tactics work. Then refine the strategy and tactics to get even better outcomes. If all these guys (who you basically just admitted think essentially the same) all think they're the smartest guy in the room, all but one of them is wrong.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 14:39:47 GMT -5
If you really believe this then I'll ask you to stop fretting every time there's a report of disagreement within the organization about the direction of the organization. Diversity of thought is a virtue, right? Always question until the methods prove the strategy and tactics work. Then refine the strategy and tactics to get even better outcomes. If all these guys (who you basically just admitted think essentially the same) all think they're the smartest guy in the room, all but one of them is wrong. Also, from what I've seen, Bloom is average - not measurably better or much worse than most of the GMs/Baseball Ops heads. He has not earned the benefit of the doubt. He should be under scrutiny and his moves challenged until he repeatedly shows us otherwise.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 7, 2022 14:49:58 GMT -5
Almonte on to the 40 man/active roster. Franchie on to the 60 datly.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 7, 2022 14:51:12 GMT -5
I don't know, seems like the secret sauce spreads through the league pretty fast. I think most teams are largely judging pitchers by the physical characteristics of their pitches, are overflowing with relievers that have worked their mechanics to the point where they can touch 98, and has a decent idea of how pitchers should utilize their various weapons. That revolution happened pretty fast, and without a best selling book. The Tigers seem like they missed out and right now their owner is getting told by a bunch of GM candidates how stupid the old regime was.
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