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Post by incandenza on Sept 7, 2022 14:57:18 GMT -5
If you really believe this then I'll ask you to stop fretting every time there's a report of disagreement within the organization about the direction of the organization. Diversity of thought is a virtue, right? Always question until the methods prove the strategy and tactics work. Then refine the strategy and tactics to get even better outcomes. If all these guys (who you basically just admitted think essentially the same) all think they're the smartest guy in the room, all but one of them is wrong. There's something I'm not quite following about your line here. "The way to be the best is to simply innovate in a way that hasn't occurred to anyone else to do." I mean, yes, I would encourage every front office to try to come up with new ways of out-competing every other team. And I think most of them would like to do that too! What position are you arguing against here?
And then you seem to be implying there's some sort of arrogance in the teams that don't do this ("smartest guy in the room..."). Maybe some are like that, but why do you think they all are?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 7, 2022 15:00:14 GMT -5
They also barely touched on having the MVP,the Cy Young, Chavez finishing top 14 in MVP, and both Hudson and Mulder being damn good. And why didn't all the other teams draft and developed those guys? I'm not saying Billy Beane was Galactus. I just cited him as a disrupter who changed team construction. He approached the problem differently, and committed to it, in an industry that was notoriously sure there was no other way to do things. Well Mulder went 2nd, Zito went 9th, and Chavez went 10th. So I guess the reason other teams didn't draft them is because they didn't have the chance. Hudson they nailed, drafted him twice
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 7, 2022 15:13:58 GMT -5
So now Bloom and upper mgt decisions are hijacking game threads??? Ugh.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 7, 2022 15:18:32 GMT -5
The Is Chaim Bloom good at his job cup seems to have runneth over here, mostly because we are a few weeks a way from "Winter's Coming."
My two cents. Methods only matter when you have success, and we only trumpet methods when it appears someone has a leg up on us, which, btw is always retrospective. Take any successful GM or baseball ops guy. It's almost impossible to evaluate them in the present tense. Theo in 04, when he traded Nomar. Beane pretty much his entire career shipping out high cost talent, for cost control, Hell, as much as I hate him, Cashman, there was a time circa 2012-13 where it looked like all of those veteran contracts were going to handicap them for the foreseeable future, and they would be in extended rebuild.
It's just too soon to castigate him(Bloom), nay is it reasonable to wash his beanbag now either. Five years from now we can all look back on this year and it will be clearer whether the vision was good, or the wrong road taken.
Right now the only ones I'm watching on the team are Casas and Wong. Everyone else is known quantities.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 7, 2022 15:36:08 GMT -5
Always question until the methods prove the strategy and tactics work. Then refine the strategy and tactics to get even better outcomes. If all these guys (who you basically just admitted think essentially the same) all think they're the smartest guy in the room, all but one of them is wrong. There's something I'm not quite following about your line here. "The way to be the best is to simply innovate in a way that hasn't occurred to anyone else to do." I mean, yes, I would encourage every front office to try to come up with new ways of out-competing every other team. And I think most of them would like to do that too! What position are you arguing against here?
And then you seem to be implying there's some sort of arrogance in the teams that don't do this ("smartest guy in the room..."). Maybe some are like that, but why do you think they all are?
I don't think the ideas are mutually exclusive. If they're all looking at the same data and video and building essentially the same type of team, there has to be an arrogance to think you can do it better, or know better which margin to elevate. Meanwhile, sports and business - although we can use war, too, if you like - is typified by highly successful perennial market leaders who took existing ideas and methods within the rules and turned it on its head. A few quick examples. We did the As who leveraged what Cleveland had started to do but wasn't fully committed to and leveraged untapped value sitting right in front of everyone's face (and now so thoroughly dominates the game that finding more and more arcane metrics already within the margins of the margins seems to be the quest of so many front offices: So: Bill Walsh - SF 49ers. Took a component of the game - the passing game in a run heavy league - got players that were widely available (incl Montana, who was a 3rd round pick with a reputation of having a so-so arm and too many picks) and made that the main feature of their offense: relentless passing for mid and long yards. It took the league years to catch up. Nothing changed but everything changed. Fred Smith - took UPS/Pilot Airfreight/DHL's rough model of air freight and added centralization and leveraged the least profitable area - overnight delivery - and made it the focus of his company's primary focus, calling it FedEx. Nothing changed but everything changed. New Jersey Devils 2000-2003 stanley cup runs. Elevated defense in a league that thought superior offense paved the way to the Cup. Nothing changed (although their hockey was dull as hell to watch) but everything changed. Netflix pre-streaming - took Blockbuster's model and an ancient method/system that was deemed to be dying - mail order - and combined the two with one twist: no late fees. You simply couldnt get another video until you returned the one you had. The fee for service longterm was actually covering costs. Nothing changed but, well, there's one Blockbuster left in America. (Netflix did the same with streaming once bandwidth started to widen). Look at the parameters, find someone who thinks they can demonstrably exploit a significant flaw, test it (minor leagues) or go all or nothing and commit all at once because of desperation and knowing the gallows is right there(Billy Beane). This has been done hundreds of times throughout history.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 7, 2022 15:39:04 GMT -5
This thread is drunk before 5pm on a Wednesday
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 7, 2022 15:46:09 GMT -5
This thread is drunk before 5pm on a Wednesday Not there yet. Ask me at 7:30pm.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 7, 2022 17:32:55 GMT -5
I see Hunter Renfroe us as many homers as Devers this year(and Renfroe has played 19 less games).
Is someone still running the JBJ v. Renfroe WAR tracker?
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 7, 2022 17:39:41 GMT -5
I see Hunter Renfroe us as many homers as Devers this year(and Renfroe has played 19 less games). Is someone still running the JBJ v. Renfroe WAR tracker? Every GM (FO guy) probably wishes there was a trade they could reverse. JBJ+ for Renfroe would be one for Bloom.
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Post by xdmo on Sept 7, 2022 17:40:20 GMT -5
I see Hunter Renfroe us as many homers as Devers this year(and Renfroe has played 19 less games). Is someone still running the JBJ v. Renfroe WAR tracker? It's still early, but you do have a point. Even if you don't like Renfroe, he's still 1000 percent better than what the Sox have thrown out in RF this year. The Renfroe trade might be Bloom's Tyler Thornburg trade.
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Post by station13 on Sept 7, 2022 17:46:32 GMT -5
They still owe JBJ $8 million for 2023. Brewwer GM got Bloom drunk when the deal went through.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 7, 2022 17:54:40 GMT -5
Please sit JD
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 7, 2022 17:56:27 GMT -5
I'm just here for the Casas at bats.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 7, 2022 18:09:36 GMT -5
I'm just here for the Casas at bats. Wong, Casas, Arroyo for me.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 7, 2022 18:10:09 GMT -5
I tell ya there's nothing so thrilling as watching 50 pitches to get through a scoreless first inning at the Trop. What baseball is all about!
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Post by patford on Sept 7, 2022 18:13:39 GMT -5
I see Hunter Renfroe us as many homers as Devers this year(and Renfroe has played 19 less games). Is someone still running the JBJ v. Renfroe WAR tracker? It's still early, but you do have a point. Even if you don't like Renfroe, he's still 1000 percent better than what the Sox have thrown out in RF this year. The Renfroe trade might be Bloom's Tyler Thornburg trade. And yet Toronto is playing Bradley almost every day.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 7, 2022 18:14:36 GMT -5
poor guy has seen a lot of LH pitching so far. making good contact though.
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Post by xdmo on Sept 7, 2022 18:17:34 GMT -5
It's still early, but you do have a point. Even if you don't like Renfroe, he's still 1000 percent better than what the Sox have thrown out in RF this year. The Renfroe trade might be Bloom's Tyler Thornburg trade. And yet Toronto is playing Bradley almost every day. The Jays probably could sacrifice some offense for defense with that lineup. They have 6 hitters hovering around a .800 OPS.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 7, 2022 18:17:47 GMT -5
I tell ya there's nothing so thrilling as watching 50 pitches to get through a scoreless first inning at the Trop. What baseball is all about! We probably have more people here on line than they have bums in seats. Pathetic "baseball town"
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 7, 2022 18:19:01 GMT -5
i like Youk as announcer. He has a laid back, jocular style that is kind of funny.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 7, 2022 18:25:11 GMT -5
We may be into our pen early...again.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 7, 2022 18:48:13 GMT -5
Story has been on a heater since he came back
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Post by incandenza on Sept 7, 2022 18:58:19 GMT -5
I feel it so deep in my bones that this is destined to be a three run loss.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 7, 2022 19:08:25 GMT -5
They still owe JBJ $8 million for 2023. Brewwer GM got Bloom drunk when the deal went through. They do??? That’s the first I’ve heard of that. I thought it was an option year?
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Post by station13 on Sept 7, 2022 19:12:55 GMT -5
They still owe JBJ $8 million for 2023. Brewwer GM got Bloom drunk when the deal went through. They do??? That’s the first I’ve heard of that. I thought it was an option year? it's a buy out.
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