atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Apr 16, 2013 19:46:03 GMT -5
I've followed Doubront since the very beginning of his career in this system, and the knock had always been that he didn't have the stuff to strike out MLB hitters. Yet this year and last that's been just about the one thing he has done reliably. I suppose the easy answer is that his stuff has improved, but it doesn't seem like his velocity has been the thing to improve, can anyone who saw him in the minors point me to a pitch in particular that has improved? I can't really answer your question, but I almost wonder if Doubront tries TOO hard to strike everybody out. This is just an observation and I have no stats to back it up, but it seems like Douby gets in a lot of long at-bats and doesn't get those quick outs and quick innings that help a pitcher get deep into games. Strikeouts can be great, but they tend to elevate the pitch count quickly.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 16, 2013 19:52:52 GMT -5
Oh hello there Nick Hagadone.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 16, 2013 19:52:54 GMT -5
Cody Allen was very impressive for Cleveland. Thankfully, Jimenez was terrible...
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Post by jmei on Apr 16, 2013 19:52:59 GMT -5
Daniel Nava, flashing the leather.
Doubront has always been incredibly deceptive with his delivery, and his fastball command has improved enough that he can get ahead of hitters and force them to chase his very good secondary stuff. In the minors, his changeup was his out pitch (indeed, he had a reputation of being tougher on righties than versus lefties, which was one reason some thought moving him to the bullpen was a bad idea). These days, his curveball might be his best secondary pitch to both righties and lefties, as evident in this game. He's tightened it up (it has some serious knee-buckling late break these days, whereas it got loopy earlier in his career) and his command of it has improved enough that he can both throw it for strikes early in the count and bury it down in the zone for swings-and-misses.
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Post by bjb406 on Apr 16, 2013 19:54:18 GMT -5
hey, Nick Hagadone is still alive. Oh what could have been if not for injuries.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 16, 2013 19:54:22 GMT -5
Hey, it's Nick Hagadone.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 16, 2013 19:55:38 GMT -5
So in reality, they didn't spend a lot of money. They got five players, four of which will be off the books in two years. In reality in today's free agent market, the Yankees spent a lot of money in 2009. They committed half a billion dollars to three players. The Red Sox didn't even spend as much as the Angels this year, who really only signed one guy.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Apr 16, 2013 20:12:58 GMT -5
I always liked Will Middlebrooks. He just made himself an instant fan favorite. Class act all the way. "I can't wait to put on my jersey today...I get to play for the strongest city out there" @middlebrooks A lot of more important things about yesterday, but one fairly minor thing: this Sox season will be heavily defined by it ... especially if it's a good one. The Sox have a tie to the city that few other sports teams do in this country.
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Post by soxfan06 on Apr 16, 2013 20:15:29 GMT -5
Doubront....seriously Morales needs to be given this spot when he gets healthy and stretched out.
There is no place in the starting 5 for a pitcher who can only throw 5 innings.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 16, 2013 20:19:42 GMT -5
Doubront....seriously Morales needs to be given this spot when he gets healthy and stretched out. There is no place in the starting 5 for a pitcher who can only throw 5 innings. Doubront is the number five pitcher, and he is pretty good for a number five starter.
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Post by mredsox89 on Apr 16, 2013 20:35:04 GMT -5
Morales has 3 outings of 6+ innings since the start of 2009. Doubront had 17 starts of 6+ innings last year
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 16, 2013 20:36:42 GMT -5
There is no place in the starting 5 for a pitcher who can only throw 5 innings. Well, there wouldn't be if the starting rotation was better. But it's not.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 16, 2013 20:39:24 GMT -5
This could be a good game for Steven Wright or Alex Wilson.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 16, 2013 21:02:39 GMT -5
Doubront....seriously Morales needs to be given this spot when he gets healthy and stretched out. There is no place in the starting 5 for a pitcher who can only throw 5 innings. Don't forget Doubront hasn't pitched in a while and had a shorter Spring as well. Maybe not that short, but he's had a long layoff and it's not uncommon for early starts to be a little shorter. That's not to excuse his weakness, but he's a developing pitcher, young (25 all year) and has shown good stuff. I don't know how you can even suggest he shouldn't be in the rotation. I really don't know why people aren't more excited about this kid and what he could possibly develop into. I'm kind of happy about it so the expectations aren't too great for him, but I expect him to be a main stay in this rotation for years and I don't expect him to stay a bottom of the rotation guy unless it's because the other guys are that good. His development has been nice to watch. When he learns to pitch to contact and be a little more efficient; he'll take the next step.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 16, 2013 21:08:02 GMT -5
9 walks to go with the 7 hits tonight, that's so far. You know it's a happening thing when Ciriaco takes a hike to first.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 16, 2013 21:24:37 GMT -5
This teams defense really is impressive.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 16, 2013 21:29:28 GMT -5
So in reality, they didn't spend a lot of money. They got five players, four of which will be off the books in two years. In reality in today's free agent market, the Yankees spent a lot of money in 2009. They committed half a billion dollars to three players. The Red Sox didn't even spend as much as the Angels this year, who really only signed one guy. Yeah, it's been a terrible 4 years for them. 1 World Championship, 3 Div. Titles and a wild card. Meanwhile, we have one wild-card with no playoff wins and completely missed the playoffs the other 3. CC, Teixeira and Burnett contracts haven't hurt them.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 16, 2013 21:38:23 GMT -5
So in reality, they didn't spend a lot of money. They got five players, four of which will be off the books in two years. In reality in today's free agent market, the Yankees spent a lot of money in 2009. They committed half a billion dollars to three players. The Red Sox didn't even spend as much as the Angels this year, who really only signed one guy. Yeah, it's been a terrible 4 years for them. 1 World Championship, 3 Div. Titles and a wild card. Meanwhile, we have one wild-card with no playoff wins and completely missed the playoffs the other 3. CC, Teixeira and Burnett contracts haven't hurt them. The damage from those contracts is in the present and future, not the past.
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Post by jmei on Apr 16, 2013 21:45:42 GMT -5
CC, Teixeira and Burnett contracts haven't hurt them yet. Fixed that for ya. Teixeira is signed for three more years after this one at $23.125m per year, and he's already 33 and declining fast (wOBA has declined 4 straight years). Sabathia has three more guaranteed years and a vesting fourth year (vests unless he suffers a significant shoulder injury in 2016) at an AAV of $24m. Burnett cost them $8.5m in dead money this year. And that's not to mention Alex Rodriguez's behemoth of a deal and the need to sign Cano to what could be a $30m AAV megadeal this offseason. Don't forget this attempt to stay below the luxury tax next year while three-fifth of their rotation, their closer, and their starting CF and 3B all reach free agency. Everyone has to pay the piper eventually, even the Yankees.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 16, 2013 21:59:24 GMT -5
Yeah, it's been a terrible 4 years for them. 1 World Championship, 3 Div. Titles and a wild card. Meanwhile, we have one wild-card with no playoff wins and completely missed the playoffs the other 3. CC, Teixeira and Burnett contracts haven't hurt them. On top of what others have said you completely missed the point. Regardless of how they will work out, in today's free agent market the Red Sox really just didn't spend that much money. They got five regulars for less than what the Angels paid for one and for a fraction of what the Yankees paid for three. (No need to lecture me on the decreasing returns of investment in free agency, I already understand. My point was that the Sox didn't spend a lot of money, which they didn't.)
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 16, 2013 22:04:33 GMT -5
Doubront....seriously Morales needs to be given this spot when he gets healthy and stretched out. There is no place in the starting 5 for a pitcher who can only throw 5 innings. God I remember when people used to say this nonsense about Clay. I'm getting old.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 16, 2013 23:12:46 GMT -5
CC, Teixeira and Burnett contracts haven't hurt them yet. Fixed that for ya. Teixeira is signed for three more years after this one at $23.125m per year, and he's already 33 and declining fast (wOBA has declined 4 straight years). Sabathia has three more guaranteed years and a vesting fourth year (vests unless he suffers a significant shoulder injury in 2016) at an AAV of $24m. Burnett cost them $8.5m in dead money this year. And that's not to mention Alex Rodriguez's behemoth of a deal and the need to sign Cano to what could be a $30m AAV megadeal this offseason. Don't forget this attempt to stay below the luxury tax next year while three-fifth of their rotation, their closer, and their starting CF and 3B all reach free agency. Everyone has to pay the piper eventually, even the Yankees. A-Rod's deal wasn't mentioned questioned because it didn't happen in 2009. I hope I don't croak before the Yankees spending hurts them. Because it hasn't yet.
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Post by mainesox on Apr 16, 2013 23:33:58 GMT -5
Fixed that for ya. Teixeira is signed for three more years after this one at $23.125m per year, and he's already 33 and declining fast (wOBA has declined 4 straight years). Sabathia has three more guaranteed years and a vesting fourth year (vests unless he suffers a significant shoulder injury in 2016) at an AAV of $24m. Burnett cost them $8.5m in dead money this year. And that's not to mention Alex Rodriguez's behemoth of a deal and the need to sign Cano to what could be a $30m AAV megadeal this offseason. Don't forget this attempt to stay below the luxury tax next year while three-fifth of their rotation, their closer, and their starting CF and 3B all reach free agency. Everyone has to pay the piper eventually, even the Yankees. A-Rod's deal wasn't mentioned questioned because it didn't happen in 2009. I hope I don't croak before the Yankees spending hurts them. Because it hasn't yet. You're still completely missing the point.
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Post by bjb406 on Apr 17, 2013 3:30:57 GMT -5
Doubront....seriously Morales needs to be given this spot when he gets healthy and stretched out. There is no place in the starting 5 for a pitcher who can only throw 5 innings. 1. We have an excellent bullpen so chill out, 5-6 innings is fine. He pitched pretty well tonight. quality > quantity 2. If someone gets replaced it should clearly be Lackey/Aceves. 3. If someone gets promoted to the rotation it should be Webster.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 17, 2013 6:44:45 GMT -5
1. We have an excellent bullpen so chill out, 5-6 innings is fine. He pitched pretty well tonight. quality > quantity Bill James has been saying for over 15 years that there are too many reliviers in modern baseball. Even ten years ago teams only used five relivers. The advantage of seven relivers is you can support a starter who only pitches five to six innings.
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