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9/22-9/25 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2022 12:17:32 GMT -5
Or... he's actually very good and we should enjoy watching a historic season. Admitted character flaws will prevent that. Just making an observation completely based on conjecture, but I stand by it. He has 20 more HR's than the next guy. It isn't a stretch to think it. Was George Foster on something when he had a substantial margin over everybody else in 1977 when he smashed 52 homers? It happens. If Judge were a Red Sox would you be questioning it so much?
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Post by Guidas on Sept 23, 2022 13:34:02 GMT -5
Recency bias not withstanding, I still absolutely LOATHE the extra innings/runner on 2nd rule. That needs to go. Little League rules. I f-ing hate it.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 23, 2022 13:38:02 GMT -5
Recency bias not withstanding, I still absolutely LOATHE the extra innings/runner on 2nd rule. That needs to go. Little League rules. I f-ing hate it. I'd be fine with it in maybe Inning 12+, but it's dumb in 10/11. Play ball.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 23, 2022 13:39:05 GMT -5
I'm assuming we all agree that number 62 will happen during this series. With the way this season is gone there is zero chance it doesn't happen. A little sad Eovaldi isn't around to have one of those "three bad pitches lead to 3 hr and 5 runs" runs to help him out. I'm honestly fine with Judge getting the Roid-less Record. And since a Yankee already holds it, no sweat there. Go watch the documentary "Icarus" and tell me if you still think the vast bulk of professional athletes aren't doing PEDs. International and Olympic-level athletes are so sophisticated with their PED use, the tests can't keep up. I had a pro-level athlete tell me once, "If you failed a test, it doesn't mean everyone else is clean and you're not. It means you're just stupid or got careless."
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Post by benzinger on Sept 23, 2022 14:17:55 GMT -5
Admitted character flaws will prevent that. Just making an observation completely based on conjecture, but I stand by it. He has 20 more HR's than the next guy. It isn't a stretch to think it. Was George Foster on something when he had a substantial margin over everybody else in 1977 when he smashed 52 homers? It happens. If Judge were a Red Sox would you be questioning it so much? Since this is a Red Sox board and there are no Yankees fans around *looks over shoulder*, I have no issue admitting that David Ortiz was almost certainly juicing when he was with the Sox. He was just a lot smarter about it than Manny was(a lot more likable, too).
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 23, 2022 14:27:55 GMT -5
Was George Foster on something when he had a substantial margin over everybody else in 1977 when he smashed 52 homers? It happens. If Judge were a Red Sox would you be questioning it so much? Since this is a Red Sox board and there are no Yankees fans around *looks over shoulder*, I have no issue admitting that David Ortiz was almost certainly juicing when he was with the Sox. He was just a lot smarter about it than Manny was(a lot more likable, too). Paxton Crawford would have you believing every single player in MLB was on something.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 23, 2022 14:36:01 GMT -5
People point to the stars, but it's the marginal players who have the most incentive to break the rules in order to gain an advantage - they have the most to gain, and the least to lose if they get caught. Which would imply that it's the best players that are put at a relative disadvantage.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 23, 2022 14:38:14 GMT -5
I shouldn't have posted that. I really don't want to get into a back and forth with people about him. People are right...great, historic season. I wouldn't really get into a debate about Ohtani or Trout because their pedigree at a younger age was much more evident. I will leave the stage with the finer point that when you have this kind of difference in HR total, I really don't understand how it doesn't invite suspicion. Hopefully, he doesn't hit it against our boys. I get it. It IS a strange phenomenon that he has TWENTY more HR’s than anyone else this year. And it wouldn’t shock me at all if he was using something to “aid” his performance. But he’s also the premier power hitter in the league. He hit 52 HR’s a few years back, so 60+ doesn’t seem TOO far out of the realm of possibility for him. He wouldn’t be as obvious a steroid candidate as, say, Edgar Martinez(who suddenly became a power hitter at 32) IMO.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 23, 2022 14:40:49 GMT -5
Since this is a Red Sox board and there are no Yankees fans around *looks over shoulder*, I have no issue admitting that David Ortiz was almost certainly juicing when he was with the Sox. He was just a lot smarter about it than Manny was(a lot more likable, too). Paxton Crawford would have you believing every single player in MLB was on something. Never heard that from Crawford, but with so many millions of dollars at stake, I see the clear incentive to grab what you can while you can. Guys are almost incentivized to break the rules to gain even the slightest advantage.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 23, 2022 14:43:24 GMT -5
Since this is a Red Sox board and there are no Yankees fans around *looks over shoulder*, I have no issue admitting that David Ortiz was almost certainly juicing when he was with the Sox. He was just a lot smarter about it than Manny was(a lot more likable, too). Paxton Crawford would have you believing every single player in MLB was on something. Look at Lance Armstrong. International Cycling had the most invasive, strident and supposedly "state of the art" testing program. And when I say "invasive," they would wake him up at home at 3 or 4 a.m. and make him give blood and urine on the spot. Yet, he and his teammates never failed a test. In fact, when he did confess, they couldn't give the tour titles to any of the other top 10 finishers because they all had failed the tests or were proven to be following similar regimes. And that's just cycling, which has far, far less money available to athletes and supporting the teams than European Football, the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, professional tennis or many Olympic sports. I don't judge people on this. I mean, if everyone else was doping, they should've let Armstrong keep his titles and prize money. And how many of us here at 18-30 years old in our lives would say no if someone told you, "Do X, the chances of you being caught if you do it this way are less than 1%, and you can literally make 10x, 20x, 50x or even more a year - oh, and just about everyone else is doing it too"?
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Post by incandenza on Sept 23, 2022 15:12:09 GMT -5
Another thing that's kind of quirky about Judge, especially when thinking about his Hall of Fame potential, is that his counting stats are really underwhelming for a guy who'll be 31 next season, thanks to his being a late bloomer and all the time lost to injury and covid. Like if you just double his current career totals he'd end up at 72 WAR, which is comfortably into HOF territory. But he'd have only 436 homers (fewer than Paul Konerko and Jason Giambi) and only 1480 hits. I believe no position player in recent decades has made it into the HOF with fewer than 2000 hits.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 23, 2022 15:12:18 GMT -5
Paxton Crawford would have you believing every single player in MLB was on something. Look at Lance Armstrong. International Cycling had the most invasive, strident and supposedly "state of the art" testing program. And when I say "invasive," they would wake him up at home at 3 or 4 a.m. and make him give blood and urine on the spot. Yet, he and his teammates never failed a test. In fact, when he did confess, they couldn't give the tour titles to any of the other top 10 finishers because they all had failed the tests or were proven to be following similar regimes. And that's just cycling, which has far, far less money available to athletes and supporting the teams than European Football, the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, professional tennis or many Olympic sports. I don't judge people on this. I mean, if everyone else was doping, they should've let Armstrong keep his titles and prize money. And how many of us here at 18-30 years old in our lives would say no if someone told you, "Do X, the chances of you being caught if you do it this way are less than 1%, and you can literally make 10x, 20x, 50x or even more a year - oh, and just about everyone else is doing it too"? It's an easy decision to make and many of us on the sidelines chaff at athletes who get caught, but other than Ryan Braun (cause f' that guy, he is a chump for what he did) I really don't care about the PED usage or even the recreational drug usage or binge drinking etc. I guess it's cause I'm not looking for these guys to be role models for my children, it's nice when they are, but it's not their responsibility. I think about it this way, if someone told me I could take this drug, and if the world found out I did, 50% of them would disparage me for life, but I would make millions AND get to keep said financial gains and freedoms, I'm sorry, I'm signing that deal EVERY TIME. Money doesn't solve all problems, but it sure as hell helps, especially for anyone who deals with the US health care system with any frequency. We revere records and that is fine as a distraction from our usual lives, but in the end none of it is meaningful, Hank Aaron no longer being the hr leader isn't going to delay my eventual death As far as Judge is concerned, is he/ is he not? Who cares, we're paying for entertainment and he is providing it. I don't care if he pays small Haitian Immigrants to peg him when he's on the road, as long as it's consensual.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 23, 2022 16:37:58 GMT -5
People point to the stars, but it's the marginal players who have the most incentive to break the rules in order to gain an advantage - they have the most to gain, and the least to lose if they get caught. Which would imply that it's the best players that are put at a relative disadvantage. This is on point. We use the stars because their success is an extreme positive and magnified by anyone who watches the sport. But a 25 or 26 year old guy who's made it all the way to AAA but only hits 15 HRs or has a max velo of 92, a minor increase in strength and/endurance and he's suddenly hitting 25-30HRs or throwing 96-98. Then he goes from a minor league salary and scrounging an extra $15 a day for meal money to hundreds of thousands of dollars and numerous opportunities for more.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 23, 2022 16:40:44 GMT -5
Another thing that's kind of quirky about Judge, especially when thinking about his Hall of Fame potential, is that his counting stats are really underwhelming for a guy who'll be 31 next season, thanks to his being a late bloomer and all the time lost to injury and covid. Like if you just double his current career totals he'd end up at 72 WAR, which is comfortably into HOF territory. But he'd have only 436 homers (fewer than Paul Konerko and Jason Giambi) and only 1480 hits. I believe no position player in recent decades has made it into the HOF with fewer than 2000 hits. But he's a "True Yankee" sooooooo....
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 23, 2022 17:38:48 GMT -5
Little League rules. I f-ing hate it. I'd be fine with it in maybe Inning 12+, but it's dumb in 10/11. Play ball. This is a great idea/compromise.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 23, 2022 18:10:41 GMT -5
Apple TV telling me Kiké has a 31% chance of getting a hit vs Cole 0-1
lol ok
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Post by benzinger on Sept 23, 2022 18:19:14 GMT -5
Rich Hill is the baseball equivalent of a white flag. It’s like saying “eh....we don’t really expect to win, but I guess SOMEONE has to pitch”
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 23, 2022 18:20:54 GMT -5
Arroyo is not in the lineup again. Is he dinged up?
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Post by station13 on Sept 23, 2022 18:24:22 GMT -5
Why is Xander sitting?
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Post by Guidas on Sept 23, 2022 18:25:36 GMT -5
Bogaerts too. He must be back in Boston signing his extension.
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Post by manfred on Sept 23, 2022 18:30:33 GMT -5
People point to the stars, but it's the marginal players who have the most incentive to break the rules in order to gain an advantage - they have the most to gain, and the least to lose if they get caught. Which would imply that it's the best players that are put at a relative disadvantage. Exactly. This is the real lesson of the Lance saga. Tons of guys in the peloton said the increased effort up front put enormous pressure on them to cheat just to keep their jobs.
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Post by manfred on Sept 23, 2022 18:47:45 GMT -5
Rich Hill is the baseball equivalent of a white flag. It’s like saying “eh....we don’t really expect to win, but I guess SOMEONE has to pitch” That is pretty unfair. He’s been fine. At times he’s been good.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 23, 2022 18:48:10 GMT -5
People point to the stars, but it's the marginal players who have the most incentive to break the rules in order to gain an advantage - they have the most to gain, and the least to lose if they get caught. Which would imply that it's the best players that are put at a relative disadvantage. Exactly. This is the real lesson of the Lance saga. Tons of guys in the peloton said the increased effort up front put enormous pressure on them to cheat just to keep their jobs. And his team got rich for being bit players. Lance and cyclists (and marathoners, tennis players, soccer players, relief pitchers, etc.) are visual aids for anyone who says, “They can’t be using, they don’t look like body builders!”
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Post by kevfc89 on Sept 23, 2022 18:48:20 GMT -5
I guess Devers owning Cole isn't a thing anymore
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 23, 2022 19:02:09 GMT -5
Arroyo is not in the lineup again. Is he dinged up? Flu Day off
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