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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 13, 2022 12:45:13 GMT -5
This question will be moot should there be some significant signings and trade moves this off-season, but I’m curious to know if folks think John Henry & Co are looking to sell the team in the next year or so?
Given Henry’s other investments with FSG, the seeming refusal to dole out long term contracts, and him not speaking to the press the past 3+ years, things seem to indicate that he’s interested in cashing out.
After all, according to Forbes the team is valued @ $3.9 billion. That’s a significant return on Henry and Co’s investment of $380 million made in 2002.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 13, 2022 12:48:56 GMT -5
People keep saying this, but I'm not sure I follow the logic. Why are the Red Sox without Bogaerts and Devers worth more in a potential sale than the Red Sox with Bogaerts and Devers?
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 13, 2022 12:52:04 GMT -5
It's a question worth asking, it's been what I would consider a strange spiral since 2018. Yes there have been some up years since but it's been a lot of down as well. It could certainly explain some of their hesitancy in long term deals.
The other question is, do we even want Henry and Co. to sell? They've been one of if not the most successful franchises in baseball since Henry took over in terms of world series titles. It's not like he's been hoarding money, he allows for spending up to and over the luxury tax. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 13, 2022 12:52:41 GMT -5
People keep saying this, but I'm not sure I follow the logic. Why are the Red Sox without Bogaerts and Devers worth more in a potential sale than the Red Sox with Bogaerts and Devers? I’ve been thinking the same thing, however my logic is that the Red Sox brand is far, far more valuable than having one or two hallmark players. I honestly don’t think it matters in the larger scope of things. Also, I imagine it would be more appealing to a new owner to have a clean slate with minimal long term commitments on the table, but that’s just an assumption of mine. |
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 13, 2022 12:53:38 GMT -5
People keep saying this, but I'm not sure I follow the logic. Why are the Red Sox without Bogaerts and Devers worth more in a potential sale than the Red Sox with Bogaerts and Devers? I think the logic is in 1) profit margins on their books and 2) flexibility for new ownership, maybe? Tougher for a new owner to get excited about building the franchise in their own vision if 60% of the MLB payroll is locked up for a decade in guys they'd rather not have. |
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 13, 2022 12:53:54 GMT -5
Too bad Cohen already bought the Mets
Maybe Elon will go team shopping
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Post by curtisw on Dec 13, 2022 12:57:14 GMT -5
I actually don’t totally discount the theory honestly, but I also question it because the refusal to go for really big contracts and aversion to splurging on beloved home town guys goes back a long, long time with Henry, really back to the early days as many here have brought up recently.
It makes more sense that some of the late 2010’s contacts like Sale and Price have made Henry even more adamant on this. Which would be very unfortunate imo. So, there are other explanations for all this. But I’m also not someone that is going to totally dismiss the idea FSG might be considering moving on. I just think we don’t have quite enough evidence for that yet, not say the next year or two might give more signs one way or the other.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 13, 2022 12:57:22 GMT -5
It's a question worth asking, it's been what I would consider a strange spiral since 2018. Yes there have been some up years since but it's been a lot of down as well. It could certainly explain some of their hesitancy in long term deals. The other question is, do we even want Henry and Co. to sell? They've been one of if not the most successful franchises in baseball since Henry took over in terms of world series titles. It's not like he's been hoarding money, he allows for spending up to and over the luxury tax. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't. I think spending at or above the luxury tax is more of a market thing than a desire to win. Seeing that Boston is definitely a top 5 market for baseball, it would just be an all around terrible praxis not to spend at or above the luxury tax line — both from a market and PR perspective. |
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 13, 2022 12:58:57 GMT -5
Too bad Cohen already bought the Mets Maybe Elon will go team shopping And turn Fenway into the new Twitter headquarters, lol. |
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 13, 2022 13:00:15 GMT -5
I actually don’t totally discount the theory honestly, but I also question it because the refusal to go for really big contracts and aversion to splurging on beloved home town guys goes back a long, long time with Henry, really back to the early days as many here have brought up recently. It makes more sense that some of the late 2010’s contacts like Sale and Price have made Henry even more adamant on this. Which would be very unfortunate imo. So, there are other explanations for all this. But I’m also not someone that is going to totally dismiss the idea FSG might be considering moving on. I just think we don’t have quite enough evidence for that yet, not say the next year or two might give more signs one way or the other. Yeah, I should note I have *zero* evidence that the team is going up for sale. This is all a hypothetical thought experiment. |
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Post by curtisw on Dec 13, 2022 13:04:08 GMT -5
Random thought that just popped into my head. It will be sort of funny if they do sell. Might need a name change lol. After all without Fenway in the portfolio, it makes the name Fenway Sports Group a bit strange.
It could be a sign as to the centrality of the Sox in Henry’s sports business, and also just consider that baseball was always his favorite sport as far as I know, and the one he was most interested in being involved in. Things change I know, but honestly if I had to bet, he is not selling all that soon. I think people are definitely wondering though if the grass might be greener on the other side. Idk if it would be, but I also don’t feel like telling people not to think about that. I don’t blame people for being upset and questioning things.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Dec 13, 2022 13:05:26 GMT -5
Too bad Cohen already bought the Mets Maybe Elon will go team shopping Yeah, because he's done such a marvelous job with the "cesspool of interaction" h/t Anthony Fauci |
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 13, 2022 13:06:34 GMT -5
No idea if they are looking to sell, but if they are, maybe the Krafts would be interested?
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Post by incandenza on Dec 13, 2022 13:08:29 GMT -5
People keep saying this, but I'm not sure I follow the logic. Why are the Red Sox without Bogaerts and Devers worth more in a potential sale than the Red Sox with Bogaerts and Devers? I think the logic is in 1) profit margins on their books and 2) flexibility for new ownership, maybe? Tougher for a new owner to get excited about building the franchise in their own vision if 60% of the MLB payroll is locked up for a decade in guys they'd rather not have. Plausible, I guess. Still kind of seems backwards to me that he would care more about the team's long-term outlook if he were planning to sell within the next few years.
And if the only evidence that they might sell is that they're unwilling to offer big long-term contracts... well, I think there are more straightforward explanations.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 13, 2022 13:18:35 GMT -5
No idea if they are looking to sell, but if they are, maybe the Krafts would be interested? Now there's a guy that operates on an extremely strict budget. |
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Post by awalkinthepark on Dec 13, 2022 13:21:17 GMT -5
It really doesn't make any sense to me, the primary reason I don't buy it is because I don't understand what they would do with the money. FSG is in the business of owning sports franchises. If they were to sell they would then need to go do something with that money, and I don't know what they would do with it. I know the Commanders are for sale and there are rumors of FSG wanting an NBA team, but I would think they could raise cash to do that without outright selling the existing franchises.
I know there are rumors of them selling LFC, but I think that is a little different because the economics of the Premier League and European soccer in general are very different from Major League Baseball.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 13, 2022 13:24:25 GMT -5
Can't see any scenario where they sell. They're investing so much into Boston development wise, the new FSG MGM venue amongst other projects
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 13, 2022 13:24:56 GMT -5
It really doesn't make any sense to me, the primary reason I don't buy it is because I don't understand what they would do with the money. FSG is in the business of owning sports franchises. If they were to sell they would then need to go do something with that money, and I don't know what they would do with it. I know the Commanders are for sale and there are rumors of FSG wanting an NBA team, but I would think they could raise cash to do that without outright selling the existing franchises. I know there are rumors of them selling LFC, but I think that is a little different because the economics of the Premier League and European soccer in general are very different from Major League Baseball. I think you answered what they'd do with the money - it seems like they are the favorites to bring an NBA team to Vegas in the next few years which will require a multi-billion dollar buy-in. Maybe they have/could raise the money otherwise but that's a big chunk even for them. |
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 13, 2022 13:26:41 GMT -5
I think the logic is in 1) profit margins on their books and 2) flexibility for new ownership, maybe? Tougher for a new owner to get excited about building the franchise in their own vision if 60% of the MLB payroll is locked up for a decade in guys they'd rather not have. Plausible, I guess. Still kind of seems backwards to me that he would care more about the team's long-term outlook if he were planning to sell within the next few years.
And if the only evidence that they might sell is that they're unwilling to offer big long-term contracts... well, I think there are more straightforward explanations.
Yeah I agree that the simplest explanation is that they just don't believe the mega deals at the current market price are conducive to sustained success within their budget. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 13, 2022 13:31:24 GMT -5
I am not finding this speculation very convincing.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 13, 2022 13:34:05 GMT -5
People keep saying this, but I'm not sure I follow the logic. Why are the Red Sox without Bogaerts and Devers worth more in a potential sale than the Red Sox with Bogaerts and Devers? Very few long-term contracts/less debt? |
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 13, 2022 13:38:26 GMT -5
People keep saying this, but I'm not sure I follow the logic. Why are the Red Sox without Bogaerts and Devers worth more in a potential sale than the Red Sox with Bogaerts and Devers? Even when the Dallas Cowboys were terrible, they were consistently the most valuable team in American sports. The brand is bigger than any player. |
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Post by curtisw on Dec 13, 2022 13:45:20 GMT -5
Can't see any scenario where they sell. They're investing so much into Boston development wise, the new FSG MGM venue amongst other projects Sort of slipped my mind for a second. Yeah, they aren’t selling I don’t think. This kind of cinches it for me. |
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 13, 2022 13:50:13 GMT -5
Can't see any scenario where they sell. They're investing so much into Boston development wise, the new FSG MGM venue amongst other projects Sort of slipped my mind for a second. Yeah, they aren’t selling I don’t think. This kind of cinches it for me. I don’t think real estate developments in Boston and owning the team necessarily go hand-in-hand though. It would be awkward, yes, but they’re completely different ventures. |
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Post by curtisw on Dec 13, 2022 13:56:29 GMT -5
Sort of slipped my mind for a second. Yeah, they aren’t selling I don’t think. This kind of cinches it for me. I don’t think real estate developments in Boston and owning the team necessarily go hand-in-hand though. It would be awkward, yes, but they’re completely different ventures. Maybe, but that, the name of it, how Henry feels about baseball, the rings, idk. I think I do lean towards them not selling. The development stuff is a big capital investment if you want to just sell. I wouldn’t assume they are preparing to sell when they are doing that kind of thing. But I’m not going to die on this hill lol it is not my area of expertise really. |
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