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Patriots 2023 Offseason Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 25, 2023 11:15:44 GMT -5
No but the Jets are now better than the Patriots without question. On paper Your paper maybe. Not mine. Here’s the thing. The Jets finished one game behind the Patriots last year with us beating them twice and they had no QB. The Packers finished with the same record as us with less talent than the Jets and they beat the Patriots. Completely in exact since teams play different schedules and don’t play teams at the same time yada yada yada, but it’s not meaningless. The Patriots this year play a lot of top end QBs and their “great defense” has struggled the past few years against really good QBs. The Jets defense is better equipped to compete with great QBs than the Patriots. It’s entirely possible their OL does them in; but also, they could draft 2 or 3 really good linemen early in the draft because they don’t really have other needs and it’s not like the Patriots have a great line either. There is a reason the Pats are +6000 and the Jets are +1400 to win the SB |
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Post by philarhody on Apr 25, 2023 11:16:57 GMT -5
It’s the J E T S I’ll believe they are actually good when I see it. Outside of a terrible quarterback, they were pretty darn good last year. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 25, 2023 12:44:39 GMT -5
I'm a Packers fan and we made sure to jump you guys in the Rodgers trade. Packers are on the extreme end of caring about athletic testing, so my guess is they're trying to steal Broderick Jones. Eh, Packers probably rival New England for one of the worst receiving corp’s. This might be for Njigba. Phil Perry cited a 2022 stat last month that on passes from a clean pocket (about 70% of the time) Mac had the #5 passer rating in the NFL (behind Mahomes, ahead of Rogers/Brady). Now no one stat tells us all we need to know about a thing BUT, if the receivers were so very terrible, how is that result achievable? And this in a year when the offense struggled mightily with Execution & Design. Like in 2021 when the Patriots were #6 in scoring -- it wasn't all pretty, but it also wasn't awful. There was offensive talent. There is offensive talent. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 25, 2023 13:05:18 GMT -5
Your paper maybe. Not mine. Here’s the thing. The Jets finished one game behind the Patriots last year with us beating them twice and they had no QB. The Packers finished with the same record as us with less talent than the Jets and they beat the Patriots. Completely in exact since teams play different schedules and don’t play teams at the same time yada yada yada, but it’s not meaningless. The Patriots this year play a lot of top end QBs and their “great defense” has struggled the past few years against really good QBs. The Jets defense is better equipped to compete with great QBs than the Patriots. It’s entirely possible their OL does them in; but also, they could draft 2 or 3 really good linemen early in the draft because they don’t really have other needs and it’s not like the Patriots have a great line either. There is a reason the Pats are +6000 and the Jets are +1400 to win the SBStarting from the bottom: that is the betting market. I'll not suggest it is irrelevant, because of course it's not. BUT, did you watch GET UP this morning on ESPN? JETS GOT A QB!!!!!! JETS JETS JETS!!!! I expect Vegas is protecting their betting interests 1st and foremost. I like to look at position groups when comparing team A & B. I'll not suggest it is the best way to do it but it is how I like to do it. Which rooms do the NYJ have an advantage in? QB, RB, TE, WR, OL, DL, LB, DB, ST. Ourlads favors NE at OL (#1 in AFCE) as do I. I also give an edge at WR, TE, DB. RB, (losing Harris) & LB (although didn't the Jets lose their best LB, so maybe not?) I'll call a wash. Based on shaky P & KO depth issues, Jets (for now) get ST. Rodgers more accomplished than Mac so QB goes to Jets (Zappe better than any B/U though should AR not play all 17). And the draft is still to come. Trades & cuts and acquisitions. And then there's coaching up these rooms. I'll still take BB over whomever the NYJ hire. All these teams have warts (Buffalo scored THREE points in their playoff exit & WR1 is tweeting cryptic weird diva stuff; MIA has a QB who considered retiring due to multiple concussions). It seems here we only acknowledge our team's warts. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 25, 2023 15:59:50 GMT -5
I find those stats crazy interesting given all the attention given to Patriot coaching. Mac Jones was also 2nd worse while under pressure, only Zach Wilson did worse.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 25, 2023 18:48:51 GMT -5
I find those stats crazy interesting given all the attention given to Patriot coaching. Mac Jones was also 2nd worse while under pressure, only Zach Wilson did worse. Right. What I take from them is when things were "on schedule" the result was very good. The "off schedule" was really bad. So: cut down on the "What are we doing!" plays and the offense should be very much improved in 2023. (Making the occasional off schedule play wouldn't hurt either.) |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 25, 2023 18:49:37 GMT -5
Here’s the thing. The Jets finished one game behind the Patriots last year with us beating them twice and they had no QB. The Packers finished with the same record as us with less talent than the Jets and they beat the Patriots. Completely in exact since teams play different schedules and don’t play teams at the same time yada yada yada, but it’s not meaningless. The Patriots this year play a lot of top end QBs and their “great defense” has struggled the past few years against really good QBs. The Jets defense is better equipped to compete with great QBs than the Patriots. It’s entirely possible their OL does them in; but also, they could draft 2 or 3 really good linemen early in the draft because they don’t really have other needs and it’s not like the Patriots have a great line either. There is a reason the Pats are +6000 and the Jets are +1400 to win the SBStarting from the bottom: that is the betting market. I'll not suggest it is irrelevant, because of course it's not. BUT, did you watch GET UP this morning on ESPN? JETS GOT A QB!!!!!! JETS JETS JETS!!!! I expect Vegas is protecting their betting interests 1st and foremost. I like to look at position groups when comparing team A & B. I'll not suggest it is the best way to do it but it is how I like to do it. Which rooms do the NYJ have an advantage in? QB, RB, TE, WR, OL, DL, LB, DB, ST. Ourlads favors NE at OL (#1 in AFCE) as do I. I also give an edge at WR, TE, DB. RB, (losing Harris) & LB (although didn't the Jets lose their best LB, so maybe not?) I'll call a wash. Based on shaky P & KO depth issues, Jets (for now) get ST. Rodgers more accomplished than Mac so QB goes to Jets (Zappe better than any B/U though should AR not play all 17). And the draft is still to come. Trades & cuts and acquisitions. And then there's coaching up these rooms. I'll still take BB over whomever the NYJ hire. All these teams have warts (Buffalo scored THREE points in their playoff exit & WR1 is tweeting cryptic weird diva stuff; MIA has a QB who considered retiring due to multiple concussions). It seems here we only acknowledge our team's warts. The Pats safeties are better but the Jets corners are waaaay better and I’d rather have the better corners. Sauce was best corner in the NFL last year as a rookie. The Jets WRs are also superior. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 25, 2023 19:01:41 GMT -5
Starting from the bottom: that is the betting market. I'll not suggest it is irrelevant, because of course it's not. BUT, did you watch GET UP this morning on ESPN? JETS GOT A QB!!!!!! JETS JETS JETS!!!! I expect Vegas is protecting their betting interests 1st and foremost. I like to look at position groups when comparing team A & B. I'll not suggest it is the best way to do it but it is how I like to do it. Which rooms do the NYJ have an advantage in? QB, RB, TE, WR, OL, DL, LB, DB, ST. Ourlads favors NE at OL (#1 in AFCE) as do I. I also give an edge at WR, TE, DB. RB, (losing Harris) & LB (although didn't the Jets lose their best LB, so maybe not?) I'll call a wash. Based on shaky P & KO depth issues, Jets (for now) get ST. Rodgers more accomplished than Mac so QB goes to Jets (Zappe better than any B/U though should AR not play all 17). And the draft is still to come. Trades & cuts and acquisitions. And then there's coaching up these rooms. I'll still take BB over whomever the NYJ hire. All these teams have warts (Buffalo scored THREE points in their playoff exit & WR1 is tweeting cryptic weird diva stuff; MIA has a QB who considered retiring due to multiple concussions). It seems here we only acknowledge our team's warts. The Pats safeties are better but the Jets corners are waaaay better and I’d rather have the better corners. Sauce was best corner in the NFL last year as a rookie. The Jets WRs are also superior. Gardner earned his Rookie of Year with some very good play. I would not put any of Carter, Hall, Echols et al ahead of the Jones boys. And I'll take depth over 1 big name every time. The WRs: the rookie had a decent enough year BUT he was a 12 yard per catch guy on 55% catch rate -- Ju Ju was that except at 78% catch rate. (Sure, the QBs had an effect on catch rate% but 23%?) The other guys are other guys, kind of like our other guys except ours have had past seasons of bigger success. But I could be persuaded to call it a wash. It might be close but then 2023 might skewer one way or the other depending on many factors. My overall point was these other teams aren't loaded with talent while Pats are devoid. The Pats have plenty of good NFL players. They just need to coach & play better in 2023. |
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Post by rasimon on Apr 25, 2023 21:42:17 GMT -5
Draft preview
QB:
STATE: questionable. Mac and Zappe were barely passable last year although we might give them a mulligan given the circumstance.
DRAFT:
Bryce Young (Ala) is the only QB that I am confident is an upgrade over Mac. I would take him at 14, but he is going in the top 4.
Any of Richardson (Fla), Levis (Ky), or Stroud (Ohio) could be an upgrade, but it is a bit of a crapshoot. My guess is the Pats would need to trade up significantly to get any of them. I would bet against that, given the uncertainty.
Herndon Hooker (Tenn) in the 3rd would be interesting.
Clayton Tune (Hou) would be interesting in the 5th.
RB:
STATE: fairly good. If the Pats had kept D Harris, they would be set, but as is, RB may still be in consideration. Stevenson was very good until he ran out of steam toward the end of the year. D Harris was good when healthy. I am not a Pierre Strong fan, but he did well in limited play time. K Harris was an interesting pick, given the injury, but he has yet to show he can take D Harris's place. I don't really understand the swap of Robinson for D Harris. D Harris has been (significantly) better in each of the past three years. That looks like a clear downgrade.
DRAFT:
Bijon Robinson (Tex) is a rare special talent. He has crazy contact balance, is a terrific receiver, and has no obvious flaws. Even given the caveat about drafting RBs early, I would be ok with the Pats taking him at 14.
Jahmyr Gibbs (Ala) will likely go late 1st-early 2nd. He has track speed and is an excellent receiver. However, he does not have power-back skills at the line and his pass-protection is non-existent. Ok with early 3rd.
Zach Charbonnet (UCLA) is a true power back. His only flaw is that he does not have break-away speed. Similar to Stevenson. 3rd.
Tajae Spears (Tulane) similar to Gibbs. Late 3rd.
Roschon Johnson (Tex) 6' 220 pure power back. Not much of a receiving option. 4th
Chase Brown (Ill) rocked up 5'9 209. Very good combine. He has a fumbling problem though. 4th
Devon Achane (Tex A&M) is a track-star but that is his whole game. My guess is he goes in the top 75 which is too high.
Evan Hull (NW) looked good at the combine and is a good receiving option. 6th.
Hunter Luepke (N.Dk) 6'1 230 is the top FB in the draft. 5th.
WR:
STATE: mediocre. Meyers was good. Swapping Juju Smith-Shuster for Meyers looks like a wash. Parker was good when he was healthy - which is about 50% of the time. Bourne was passable last year..when he actually played. Hopefully, he can improve on that, as he does have some talent. Aghelor and Thornton were both bad. Thornton gets one more chance. Agehlor does not.
DRAFT: unfortunately, this is not a good year for #1 WRs.
My only blue chipper is Jaxon Smith-Njigba (Ohio) and he may be slot-only. And you have to be ok with his health. I would be ok with taking him at 14.
Quentin Johnson (TCU) is likely going in the top 20. He has size 6'4 and 4.46 speed but his production was a bit disappointing. Watching his tape he kind of scares me though. He looks like the kind of guy who will go down hard and not get back up. I would be interested in him in the 2nd.
There are a few small slot guys (Flowers, Addison, Downs, Dell) who are interesting. Most of them are slot only though.
The best of the group is Zay Flowers (BC) who is a nice combination of speed and route running and may be able to play outside. 2nd.
Jordan Addison (USC) is a good route runner and has played outside, but he was just ok at the combine and is very light. He will likely go in the 2nd which seems too high.
Josh Downs (NC) is really schemy and probably slot only. 3rd.
Tank Dell (Hou) is 5'8 165 but has good short-area quickness. He played about 1/3 of his snaps outside. 3rd.
Jalin Hyatt (Tenn) has an excellent vertical game, but that's about it. 3rd maybe 2nd?
Michael Wilson (Stanford) has had health issues but looked very good at the Sr Bowl. He's not fast but he has good size and gets open. 4th.
Jonathan Mingo (Miss) 6'2 220 with fairly good combine numbers. His production was ok. 5th.
Charlie Jones (Purdue) slot only, but good production and surprisingly good combine numbers. 5th.
Andrei Iosivas (Princeton) this guy is a track-star but likely a project. 7th.
TE:
STATE: questionable. Jonnu Smith was bad. Getting out of 1+ years of that contract and getting anything in return was a brilliant. Henry was surprisingly poor. Hopefully, he can get back to 2019-2021 self. Mike Gesicki is a terrible blocker and was not that great as a receiver last year. He has been much better in the past.
DRAFT: this is a good year for TEs.
Mike Mayer (ND) could start today. He is Hunter Henry but with better blocking. Late 1st.
Darnell Washington (Ga) is one of my favorites. 6'6 265 and a big-big frame. He could pack on another 10lbs easily. He is a blocking monster and a surprisingly good receiver. At risk of sounding hyperbolic, think Gronk without the insane body control. Late 1st round.
Dalton Kincaid (Utah) is the consensus #2 TE. I'm less enthused. He is 6'3 246. Played mostly in the slot. Very good receiver, but not a good blocker. He's kind of a big wide receiver...maybe Gesicki? He also ran up stats against some weak competition. Late 2nd round.
Luke Musgrave (OR State) only played 2 games last year so he's a projection. 6'6 253 4.6 40 good blocker, good receiver. 3rd.
Tucker Kraft (SD State) is a larger Hunter Luepke. 6'5 255 4.69. 4th.
OT:
STATE: Trent Brown was just ok last year. He had good games but he had games where he seemed uninterested. RT was a mess. Depth was non-existent. It looks like they have Riley Reif penciled in for RT this year? with Calvin Anderson and Conor McDermott for depth. All three of them were ok last year. It would be nice to have another quality OT - preferably a LT so they could move Brown back to RT.
DRAFT: there is some good OT talent near the top of the draft, but it falls off very quickly. If the Pats want a tackle, they will need to get him in the 1st or possibly the 2nd.
Peter Skoronski (NW) 6'4 313 he is crazy-good in pass protection. PFF had him with the highest pass blocking grade in college by a decent margin. He is good in run blocking too. He does it through excellent technique across the board. The knock on him is very-short arms, so a move to guard might be optimal. He could definitely start at LT today, but he might not be a star, whereas he would be a pro-bowler at G or C. I would love to get him at 14.
Paris Johnson (Ohio) 6'6 313, 36 1/8th arms, and uber-athletic. He has the highest upside of any OL in the draft. Last year was his first starting at OT and he was very good. He could start today with a bit of a learning curve. Probable future Pro-Bowl OT. He is also a terrific dude. I would love to get him at 14.
Broderick Jones (Ga) 6'5 311 ran fastest 40 of any OL at the combine. This was his first year at LT and he was pretty good. He needs some work on his technique, but he is really strong. A true mauler. He could probably start next year, although there might be some learning pains. I would be ok with getting him at 14 or trading down a few slots and targeting him.
drop-off here
Dawand Jones (Ohio) 6'8 375 with 36 3/8 arms. Trent Brown v2. He is not fast but he's not plodding either. And if he gets his hands on you its over. He put up good numbers at RT last year. Not likely to improve much, but he is fine as is. He could step into RT today. 2nd.
and another drop-off
Matthew Bergeron (Syr) 6'5 315 good anchor. Good in pass protection. He moves well but he can get off balance in the run game. Some analysts think he might be better at G. Late 2nd
Darnell Wright (Tenn) 6'5 333. RT. many people have him as a 1st rounder. Sorry, I don't see it. His pass protection is good but his run blocking is weak. 3rd He will likely get taken way above this so he's not a good option.
Anton Harrison (Okl) 6'5 315 moves very well but right now he is going to struggle against power rushes. He is just not strong enough. 4th. He will likely get taken way above this so he's not a good option.
Blake Freeland (BYU) 6'8 302. He put up really nice PFF scores against weak competition and put up some nice movement scores at the combine but his anchor is not good. He needs to put on about 25lbs of good weight. Developmental. 4th
Jalyn Duncan (Md) 6'6 306 he moves really well but his PFFs in both pass-blocking and run-blocking were poor. Developmental. 5th maybe...
there are a few other guys who have played OT but will likely be Gs at the next level (Mauch, Voorhees, Steen)
IOL
STATE: David Andrews was good, solid, not Pro Bowl, but good. Michael Onwenu was excellent. Sign this man long term. Cole Strange was poor. Depth was non-existent. Maybe one of the newly signed tackles could play inside in a pinch???
DRAFT: not great at the top, although there is a bit of depth here
if Skoronski were to move to G or C he would be a clear #1
John Michael Schmitz (Minn) 6'3 301 C. He could step in today and play C and be fine. He is not a great athlete but is technically very sound. Hmmm all year he was listed at 320 but came into the combine at 301. Excellent numbers in both pass and run. Very consistent. he could probably play G although he has been exclusively a C. 2nd.
O'Cyrus Torrence (Fla) 6'5 330. G He is big and very strong, but he looks slow to me. This year, he had excellent numbers in both pass and run. Late 2nd.
Andrew Voorhees (USC) 6'6 310. He tore his ACL at the combine but still did the bench and put up the best numbers of any OL by a wide margin. He has successfully played LT, LG, and RG and has been good everywhere. He would be a good G or great OL depth. 3rd.
Luke Wypler (Ohio) 6'3 303 C. he probably is C only. Technically really sound. Very good in both run and pass. He would be a great backup to Andrews. 3rd.
Joe Tippman (Wis) 6'6 313 C. He could definitely play G and maybe OT. He moves really really well but his technique needs work. He still put up pretty good numbers in both pass and run. Late 3rd.
Cody Mauch (ND State) 6'5 302. Not sure what to do with this guy. He has put up excellent numbers against weak competition. He was particularly good in run where he drives guys into the dirt. He played OT last year, but he has really short arms. He probably needs to add weight to play G. Maybe C??? late 3rd or 4th
Chandler Zavala (NC State) 6'5 325 G. Very good in pass protection and ok in run. He could probably step in today at G and be ok. 4th
Steve Avila (TCU) 6'3 332. Some people had him as a late 1st. I don't see that. He is not a good run blocker. 4th
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Post by costpet on Apr 26, 2023 6:00:57 GMT -5
The only thing I fear is that our 1st round draft choice will get a response like "Who's he?"
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 26, 2023 10:22:13 GMT -5
You need to be careful about using only one source.
Example Bergeron is good at pass blocking, so-so in run blocking. I've seen that, yet every other report says the opposite. He's a monster in run blocking, day one starter crap. Yet struggles with pass protection. Might be fixable, yet his pass protection is way below his run blocking.
Harrison issues with power rushers, seen that by someone, saying he’s basically unplayable. No one else is saying that. He's a little all over the place, yet basic sense is he’s very good at pass protection, yet doesn't make it look pretty. Good in a zone running game, his strength is getting out in space. Not good at power run blocking in-line.
Those two are easy because most reports say the same thing. It gets tricky when the reports are more evenly split. Why I use ten plus sources.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 26, 2023 10:42:18 GMT -5
My sleeper pick at 14 is Mayer, going back to his roots like with Daniel Graham in 2002. Except Mayer is 4 times the receiver Graham was. He can help your run blocking, pass blocking and receiving. Take Henrys money and pay Uche, Dugger and Onwenu. I like the Jason Witten comps.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 26, 2023 11:40:39 GMT -5
Eh, Packers probably rival New England for one of the worst receiving corp’s. This might be for Njigba. Phil Perry cited a 2022 stat last month that on passes from a clean pocket (about 70% of the time) Mac had the #5 passer rating in the NFL (behind Mahomes, ahead of Rogers/Brady). Now no one stat tells us all we need to know about a thing BUT, if the receivers were so very terrible, how is that result achievable? And this in a year when the offense struggled mightily with Execution & Design. Like in 2021 when the Patriots were #6 in scoring -- it wasn't all pretty, but it also wasn't awful. There was offensive talent. There is offensive talent. Yeah, I didn’t word that correctly. I would say that New England has a decent receiving core. I would say Green Bay’s is bad. But the stat you cited doesn’t tell us a whole lot about anything other than Bill screwed up Mac’s second season and I expect a bounce back. |
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Post by rasimon on Apr 26, 2023 22:09:15 GMT -5
Draft - part 2
CB
STATE: ok. Jonathan Jones was ok on the outside. Jack Jones started really hot, cooled down, got injured, and was suspended. Not certain what to expect there going forward. Hopefully he will be at least ok. Marcus Jones was just ok playing about 2/3 of his snaps on the outside, which is a stretch. I expect he would be very good if he could just play defense and play only in the slot. Myles Bryant was just bad, and he has been bad for three years. Jalen Mills was awful. Shawn Wade has shown nothing as of yet. They really need a solid outside corner so they can move Jonathan or Marcus to the slot full time. I'm surprised they didn't sign a solid CB in free agency...but then I was shocked that they resigned Mills and Bryant too.
DRAFT: fortunately, this is a very good and very deep CB class. Pats should be able to get one and maybe two CBs.
Devon Witherspoon (Ill) this is the man. Completion percentage against 35%. Passer rating against 25. PFF says "Witherspoon had one of the best seasons we've ever graded from a college cornerback." He is only 5'11 181 but he is good against the run too. If he is on the board at 14, just snap him up. Don't even consider anyone else. However, he's been moving up boards all Spring, and I now doubt he will be on the board at 14. I might even consider trading up a few slots to get him. He is that good and he solves a pressing problem going forward.
Christian Gonzalez (Ore) a significant number of analysts have him as CB1. He does have some good traits, but it is not particularly close. Witherspoon is the man. Gonzalez is big 6'1, fast 4.38, and he looks really smooth. But the traits don't quite convert into top end production. He had a completion percentage against of 60% and a passer rating against of 75%. He was good against the run. However, he is only 20.8 years, so there is some projection left here. I have him late 1st round based on the projection. But he is going in the top 20.
Emmanuel Forbes (Miss) the production was excellent. Completion percentage against 53%. Passer rating against 45%. 6 interceptions. The combine was very good 4.35 40 and 5th in athleticism rank among CBs. The height is fine 6'1. The weight is a scary low 166 lbs. However, he did play well at that weight (or maybe a bit more). Somehow, he was even good against the run. So maybe he can do it. Early 2nd. If the Pats take an OT in the 1st, I might consider trading up in the 2nd to get Forbes or one of the next three guys.
Cam Smith (SC) he was fairly good this year, but he was also not 100% healthy. In 2021 he was awesome. 36% passer rating against. He doesn't have the top end speed of some of the other guys 4.43 but he very good ball skills. Some analysts suggested he move to slot or safety, but that looks like an over-reaction to this year. Early 2nd.
Joey Porter Jr (Penn St) very good size 6'2 1/2 198 lbs with 34inch arms. ok speed 4.46. He is a press machine. His production was pretty good. 50% completion percentage against, passer rating against 64%. Somehow, he was not good against the run. He is the son of Steeler LB Joey Porter and he is a great dude. Early 2nd...but my guess is he does not last that long.
Deonte Banks (Md) good size 6'0 198. He had a huge Combine. 4.35 40 and the #1 in athleticism rank among CBs. That led to him moving up people's boards into the 1st round. But his production was a bit mixed. Completion percentage against 43% but passer rating against of 71%. Run defense was poor. Early 2nd.
D.J. Turner (Mich) the number you need to know is 4.26 40 (best at the Combine) and #2 in athleticism rank among CBs. He is smaller though at 5'11 178. Production was very similar to Banks 43% completion percentage against, 71% passer rating against. Run defense was surprisingly good. 2nd.
Jakorian Bennett (Md) why no love for this guy? 4.30 40 and the #3 in athleticism rank among CBs. He had a 43% completion rating against and a 48% passer rating against. He was good against the run. His size is not optimal but not bad 5'11 188. What more do you want? 2nd.
I am putting Kelee Ringo (Ga) in with the safeties, as I think that may be his better position. But as a CB he would be 2nd round and hope for the best.
Julius Brents (Kan) I am putting with the safeties. He would go in the 3rd as a CB.
Cory Trice (Purdue) big 6'3 206. Combine was not particularly good 4.47 and 19th in athleticism rank among CBs. But he did produce. Completion percentage against of 48% and passer rating against of 51%. Very good run defense. 3rd
Tyrique Stevenson (Fla) I am lower on him than most. Completion percentage against of 43% but passer rating against of 78%. Not good against the run. Combine was not particularly good 4.45 40 and 21st in athleticism rank among CBs. 3rd or 4th round.
Darius Rush (SC) good size 6'2 198 Good athleticism 4.36 and 10th in athleticism rank among CBs. Production was a bit weak. Completion percentage against of 58% and passer rating against of 87%. run defense was not good. 3rd or 4th round.
Jaylon Jones (Tex A&M) 6'2 200. 4.57 40. His production was ok. Completion percentage against of 53% and passer rating against of 67%. Run defense was not good. 3rd or 4th
Garret Williams (Syr) I really wanted to like him, but at the end of the day he was not that good. Completion percentage against of 67% and passer rating against of 84%. Run defense was not good. He tore his ACL and did not go to the Combine. PFF thinks he was misused in zone and would be better in man...maybe...4th
Clark Phillips (Utah) another guy I am not that high on. Completion percentage against of 62% and passer rating against of 68%. He is only 5'9 184. Combine numbers were not good. 4.51 40 and 30th in athleticism rank among CBs. Watching him I was never real impressed. 4th and he should play in the slot. He doesn't really fit with the Pats current needs.
but wait...there are more
Eli Ricks (Ala) 4th. he was very good when he played. But he did not play much. 4.6 40? He is press and handsy.
Riley Moss (Iowa) 5th
Starling Thomas (UAB) 5th
Cameron Mitchell (NU) 5th
SAFETY:
STATE: mixed. We had four good safeties last year in McCourty, Duggar, Phillips, and Peppers. And they worked together quite well. Losing McCourty really hurt though, as we don't really have a single high FS type now. Mills is definitely not the answer. Schooler was awesome on special teams. Not sure if he can work into the Safety rotation. Bledsoe has not shown anything yet. Maybe Jonathan Jones or Marcus Jones could move to FS but that would open holes at CB.
DRAFT: its not a great class for FS
Brian Branch (Ala) He is a good player, but I am a little lower on him than most. He played almost exclusively in the slot and the box. He is a terrific tackler...maybe the best in the draft. But it seemed to me in coverage he plays back, waits for the receiver to catch the ball, and then clobbers him. That may work around the line of scrimmage, but it doesn't seem like it would work so well further down the field. His Combine numbers were pretty pedestrian 4.58 40. Late 1st as a slot corner, box safety. Not really what the Pats need.
Kelee Ringo (Ga) hear me out on this one. Ringo is big 6'2 210. He is fast vertically 4.36 40, and he hits like a truck. But his production was just ok. Completion percentage against of 53% and passer rating against of 68%. He doesn't seem to switch directions that well. He is good against the run. It might make sense to move him to FS where he can attack downhill rather than having to shadow WRs. If needed he could cover TEs who are a bit less agile. Early 2nd as a S.
Sydney Brown (Ill) twin brother of RB Chase Brown (Ill). He is built like a RB 5'11 211. 4.47 40 and #1 in athleticism rank among Safeties. Good in coverage with a completion percentage against of 59% and passer rating against of 50%. His one area of weakness is a missed tackle rate of 16.5%. In 2022 he was about 2/3 in the box and 1/3 in the slot. Only about 8% of his snaps were deep. So its a bit of a projection to draft him to play FS, but he does look like he could do it. Early 3rd.
Jordan Battle (Ala) he played about 2/3 of his snaps deep, although he might be better closer to the line. He is 6'1 209. He had a completion percentage against of 77% and passer rating against of 88%. Run defense was pretty good. Combine was not particularly good. 4.55 40 and 18th in athleticism rank among Safeties. 3rd but not what the Pats need.
Antonio Johnson (Tex A&M) at the start of the season, I hoped this would be #1 FS. But he isn't. He is a big slot corner / box safety. He only played around 15% of his snaps deep. He has good size 6'2 198. He was rumored to have 4.3 speed but at the Combine he ran 4.52 and 18th in athleticism rank among Safeties. His run defense is very good but his coverage grades are not so good. 3rd but not what the Pats need.
Julias Brents (Kan St) this is another projection as he played CB this year. He is 6'3 198 with 34inch arms. At the Combine he ran 4.53 and was 13th in athleticism rank among CBs. Good in coverage with a completion percentage against of 46% and passer rating against of 58%. Why I think he would be better at S is he doesn't quite have the speed to keep up with faster WRs but he does have good size. Very good in run defense. 3rd
Jammie Robinson (Fla St) played about 40% of his snaps deep. Completion percentage against of 56% and passer rating against of 74%. Run defense is very good. 4.59 40 and 14th in athletic rank among Safeties. 4th.
Jartavius "Quan" Martin (Ill) he mostly played in the slot but seems like he could play FS. Played about 22% of his snaps deep. Completion percentage against of 56% and passer rating against of 80%. He was awesome in run defense. Good Combine 4.46 40 and 3rd in athleticism rank among Safeties. 4th
J.L. Skinner (Boisie) 6'4 220 probably a box safety. 4th Not what the Pats need.
Chris Smith (Ga) Draft Network loved this guy. 5'11 192. 2/3 of his snaps were deep. Completion percentage against of 59% and passer rating against of 50%. Not impressive at the Combine 4.62 40 and 20th in athleticism rank among Safeties. 5th
Ronnie Hickman (Ohio) only played about 26% of his snaps deep. He has some issues with tackling 17% missed tackle rate. But he was great in coverage. Completion percentage against of 43% and passer rating against of 39%. I don't have a 40 time for him but I don't think he is a burner. Could he play FS? Maybe? 5th
Brandon Joseph (ND) what happened to this guy? He looked like a late 1st round pick in 2020, regressed big in 2021, and was half-way back in 2022. He is a true FS. His game is coverage, but Completion percentage against of 65% and passer rating against of 71% don't scream out single high. He is not a particularly great tackler. 4.62 40 at the Combine was very disappointing. 6th and I'm not confident in his ability to take over single high FS.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 26, 2023 23:03:10 GMT -5
Brian Branch seems like the most miscast player in the draft. So many people saying he could play CF as a FS and slot CB. He looks like an undersized SS. Reminds me way too much of Bryant. Best traits are football IQ and tackling.
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Post by costpet on Apr 27, 2023 11:17:19 GMT -5
Odds BB trades the 14th pick somewhere 4-1.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2023 12:29:18 GMT -5
Odds BB trades the 14th pick somewhere 4-1. It’s entirely possible but this may be a hard draft to trade back in. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 27, 2023 15:21:13 GMT -5
Starting to see some mocks trend towards Deonte Banks at 14.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2023 15:36:14 GMT -5
It's a crazy draft, most agree not many true 1st rounders. What seems to make this different is that people don't agree who those guys are. Reports that many teams want to move back. It just depends how the draft goes, how teams value guys and overall how aggressive teams are. I can certainly see trading down might be hard or it could be rather easy depending what they want to do.
I think it's going to be an interesting night!
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Post by texs31 on Apr 27, 2023 15:39:48 GMT -5
Lamar and Baltimore agreeing, in principle, on a deal.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 27, 2023 17:32:22 GMT -5
My guess at #14 before the draft is Lukas Van Ness.
Way late round pick that I’ve heard mentioned and hope becomes true is Isaiah Bolden CB from Jackson State.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 27, 2023 19:18:09 GMT -5
Draft part 3
LB
STATE: Bentley was actually quite good last year, after a few mediocre years. Jahlani Tavai was ok last year after two atrocious years. Not sure what to expect from him going forward. The roster has a slew of bad LBs and Special Teamers masquerading as LBs (Mack Wilson, terez Hall, Calvin Munson, Fatukai, Chris Board, Raekwon McMillan). None of them has shown anything yet. It would be nice to get another solid ILB to pair with Bentley going forward.
DRAFT: this is not a good year for linebackers.
Jack Campbell (Iowa) clear LB1. 6'5 249 could probably add a few lbs. He is not going to make the highlight reels for bone-crushing hits, but he does everything well. Very good in coverage. Very good in run defense. Ok pass rusher. Diagnoses plays exceptionally well. he is not a blazer. At the Combine he ran 4.65 but still had the #1 athleticism rank among LBs. There is a big drop-off after Campbell, so if the Pats want a ILB, they need to get Campbell. Early 2nd.
everyone after Campbell has some warts
- sorry ran out of time
OLB/ Designated Pass Rusher:
STATE: Matt Judon was good. Maybe not quite as good as some make him out to be but good. Josh Uche finally played and as a pass-rusher he was incredible. The Judon/Uche pair was probably the Pats strongest position last year. As a backup, Anfernee Jennings was ok. Roberts was bad in very few snaps. maybe Perkins should count here but he has yet to play. Some have suggested the Pats should look to draft an OLB/DPR since Judon is 30 and Uche is a FA after next year. I don't see why Judon could not keep up this level of play for a few more years. They do need to decide what to do with Uche. Still I do not see this position as a high priority yet.
DRAFT: there a few very good options in the 1st. And then there a bunch of DPR type guys who are around 3rd round talents. I'm not really sure what you do with those guys though if they don't hold up well against the run, are not cover guys, and are good but not great pass rushers.
Will Anderson (Ala) he is very very good and he will not be available anywhere near the Pats pick. Next..
Nolan Smith (Ga) only 238 lbs. He is crazy fast. At the combine he ran a 4.38 and was #1 in athleticism rank among EDGE. In terms of production his pass-rush win rate was a very high 25%. he was very good against the run last year but one wonders if he can keep that up against NFL linemen. Note that he only played 8 games last year and it was not against the best competition. Late 1st
Derick Hall (Auburn) 6'3 254. 4.55 40 and #2 in overall athletic score among EDGE. Good pass rusher. Not so great in run defense. It seems like he should be better. Late 2nd.
Will McDonald (Iowa St) 6'3 238. 4.70? 40 Some have him as a late 1st rounder, but I don't see that. His production was not as good as Smith's and he is nowhere near as fast. 3rd
Nick Herbig (Wis) 6'2 240. Excellent pass rusher. 24% win rate. Good run defense too. He's not the most athletic guy though. He ran a 4.65 and ranked #28 in overall athletic score. 3rd
Felix Anudike-Uzomah (KS St) 6'3 255. 4.73? 40. Good pass rusher, not so great in run defense. Is he DE or DPR??? 3rd
B.J. Ojulari (LSU) 6'2 248 good pass rusher, barely adequate run stopper. 3rd
DE
STATE: Deatrich Wise had his best year, both in terms of performance and playing time. OTOH Lawrence Guy has really fallen off in the last couple of years. His run defense, which at one time was very good, is now barely adequate. He was never a great pass rusher.
DRAFT: there are lots of good options here
Myles Murphy (Clemson) was considered a top 10 pick at the start of the season. He has fallen off some as his performance this year was fairly good but not dominant as expected. He is still likely a 1st rounder. 6'5 271 he runs a 4.51 40. Thats pretty freaky. I would not hate taking him at 14 but he's not my first choice there.
Lucas Van Ness (Iowa) similar to Murphy in both physique and performance this year. 6'5 272 ran a 4.58 40 and ranked 8th in athletic score for EDGE. Late 1st.
Tyree Wilson (Tex Tech) 6'6 271 with 35 5/8 inch arms. He did not run at the combine or at Pro Day but he appears to be slower than Murphy or Van Ness. Production wise he was pretty similar to Murphy and Van Ness although against slightly weaker competition. He was also ranked in the top 10 at one time. Late 1st.
Zach Harrison (Ohio) why are people down on this guy? Its like they are disappointed that he is not better. 6'5 274. 36 1/4 inch arms. I don't see a 40 time, but it is likely good. He ran 4.47 in high school. Very good pass rush. Good run stopping. He looked really impressive in the games that I watched. 2nd
Adetomiwa Adebaware (NU) 6'2 282 he ran a 4.49 40. Yes that's right - he could be a WR. He played about half of his snaps outside tackle and I think that is where he profiles best. His performance numbers were just ok, but I would bet on that athleticism. 2nd
Keion White (Ga Tech) 6'5 282. 40 time in the 4.65-4.75 range. Fairly good run defense and pass rush. I prefer him at DE than at DT. 3rd
Isaiah McGuire (MS) 6'4 268. 4.58 40 and 3rd in overall athletic score among DEs (that is a separate category?). Good pass rusher. Ok run defense. 3rd
Isaiah Foskey (ND) 6'5 264 with 34inch arms. 4.58 40 and 7th in in overall athletic score among EDGE. He looks great but his production has not caught up yet. 3rd based on projection
Tuli Tuipulotu (USC) 6'3 DE or DT? He played both. He was listed at 290 during the season but he weighed in at 266. He is not going to play DT at 266. Fairly good run defense and pass rush. 40 time 4.97? 3rd or 4th
Karl Brooks (Bowling Green) 6'4 300. Excellent production numbers in both pass rush and run stopping but against very weak competition. He did not look that dominant to me in the games that I watched. He might be better at 3 tech. 4th
DT:
did not get to DTs.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 27, 2023 19:22:13 GMT -5
I'm just hoping for no pick and trading for a bunch of day 2 guys.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 27, 2023 19:30:23 GMT -5
Honestly, since I have low expectations I just hope the Patriots take someone the Jets were really hoping for.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 27, 2023 19:44:25 GMT -5
I feel like Anthony Richardson has face of the league potential. If he never develops as a passer, that Jonathan Taylor run tandem is going to be a bitch.
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