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5/9-5/10 Red Sox @ Braves Series Thread
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on May 10, 2023 12:55:17 GMT -5
The way this season is playing out so far has boosted my confidence in the team's talent evaluation. Not just because of the guys they did sign (Yoshida, Jansen, Duvall), but because of the guys they went after but came up short (Eflin, Eovaldi) and the guys they could have gone after but didn't (all those pitchers, Segura, Andrus). They certainly made better decisions than I would have in several cases.
Jose Abreu and Andrew Benintendi are two guys they made offers to that are stinking up the joint this year They offered them pennies compared to what they ended up getting, luckily
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Post by Guidas on May 10, 2023 12:57:00 GMT -5
Highlights the importance of developing young controllable pitching before they get old and you have to pay a premium for a dice roll. Eflin is doing the best on that list, and ironically, Bloom was roasted when it came out that he was pursuing him According to Fangraphs, Eflin has produced 34 innings pitched, 0.8 fWAR and $6.2M worth of value so far this season. Eovaldi has produced 44.2 inning pitched, 1.7 fWAR and $13.4M in value. Eflin could earn out this year of his contract if he stays on this pace until mid-August. Eovaldi may earn out this years contract by the first week of July if he stays healthy and roughly maintains current performance (not guarantee), and could potentially earn out the whole thing by the end of the year if he does all that until Oct 1.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 10, 2023 12:57:01 GMT -5
I think you have to take those numbers with a grain of salt for 2 major reasons. 1). It's too small a sample size. 2). The new rules have clearly affected pitching in a bad way. Not to mention there isn't much association on their performance thus with this club. Could be better, could be worse. There is a chance that their starts could have lined up better with our poor performances. If the Sox continue to hit and the starting pitching remains very questionable, I am pretty certain Bloom is going to make a substantial bid for a trade. I could see him parting with Yorke (or any highly rated farm prospect) or (or +) even some of our young pitching to get a guy that is TOR that has some years left. I don't know enough of other players to say who, but the timing is right (after running the club for 4 years or so) to make such a move. With some of our younger hitters progressing and making an impact, he shouldn't want to let this issue linger. I mean the question here is who is this young, controllable pitcher that would be available through a trade? It seems like virtually anyone with this type of pitcher would have to get a very significant prospect haul in order to part ways w/ them these days. it would definitely cost, probably like some of the moves made in 2018 by a certain guy who isn't very liked around here. LOL it will have to be viewed through the short term / long term lens, with extreme calculation. Unless Bello and Whitlock turn the corner in a fascinating way, there has to be a sense of some urgency for him. Add: I am pretty certain Bloom won't go full Dombrowski. it will be more nuanced than that.
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Post by incandenza on May 10, 2023 13:07:18 GMT -5
The way this season is playing out so far has boosted my confidence in the team's talent evaluation. Not just because of the guys they did sign (Yoshida, Jansen, Duvall), but because of the guys they went after but came up short (Eflin, Eovaldi) and the guys they could have gone after but didn't (all those pitchers, Segura, Andrus). They certainly made better decisions than I would have in several cases.
Jose Abreu and Andrew Benintendi are two guys they made offers to that are stinking up the joint this year I guess I'm not inclined to ding them for offering less-than-market rate to guys who have gone on to underperform. Of course their judgment hasn't been perfect (see Kluber), but it's been better than most.
By the way, speaking of Abreu, those Astros suddenly aren't looking so hot - for this season, with their feeble offense and crumbling pitching staff, and maybe the long-term, given the aging of some of their stars and the threadbare state of their farm system.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 10, 2023 13:15:07 GMT -5
I notice Cora makes sure the guys gets there schedul e day off , Imust of missed Kikéâs day. That could be huge for the player. There too stubborn to put Houck back in the pen. He easily gives you multiple innnings. I keep repeating my self but him and Whit were the best weapons I’ve seen out of a bullpen that could pitch multiple innings . I never seen Red Sox have equals. They had some great closers, set up men. Specialist. I don’t think it’s a bd thing to have young talent in the bullpen. Boston needs young starters who are cost controlled, so if not them then who? (Not a rhetorical question). They are not going to trade the farm for someone… Soxfans, they were saying Bello has to go down. Instead of that Houck to the pen. It’s not me because of the Paxton call up.
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Post by manfred on May 10, 2023 13:24:10 GMT -5
Jose Abreu and Andrew Benintendi are two guys they made offers to that are stinking up the joint this year I guess I'm not inclined to ding them for offering less-than-market rate to guys who have gone on to underperform. Of course their judgment hasn't been perfect (see Kluber), but it's been better than most.
By the way, speaking of Abreu, those Astros suddenly aren't looking so hot - for this season, with their feeble offense and crumbling pitching staff, and maybe the long-term, given the aging of some of their stars and the threadbare state of their farm system.
Maybe see Martin, too. Jury’s out. There have been some goofs in the pen: Barnes, Diekman, maybe Martin, Jansen balances it out though, as he has been better than anyone could have hoped.
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Post by notstarboard on May 10, 2023 13:27:57 GMT -5
If I was Nick Pivetta and I just saw Taijuan Walker get $72,000,000, you can bet I'd make it as hard as possible to remove me from the rotation before my free agency.
The framing on that tweet is disingenuous though. He feels awful because of his performance, and now the reporter is asking a legitimate, but insulting question. That's why he's salty. He's already been told he's in the rotation, this isn't him making a stink in the media being asked to switch roles.
Another case of the old: everyone wants their public figures to be "authentic," and then as soon as they do anything other than dispense PR-approved pap everyone acts all insulted.
The comment seemed totally fine to me.
Order of preference:
1. Authentic good guy 2. Bad guy who hides it well 3. Authentic bad guy
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Post by incandenza on May 10, 2023 13:29:52 GMT -5
I guess I'm not inclined to ding them for offering less-than-market rate to guys who have gone on to underperform. Of course their judgment hasn't been perfect (see Kluber), but it's been better than most.
By the way, speaking of Abreu, those Astros suddenly aren't looking so hot - for this season, with their feeble offense and crumbling pitching staff, and maybe the long-term, given the aging of some of their stars and the threadbare state of their farm system.
Maybe see Martin, too. Jury’s out. There have been some goofs in the pen: Barnes, Diekman, maybe Martin, Jansen balances it out though, as he has been better than anyone could have hoped. Agree on the basic point, though I am not yet at the point of giving up on a pitcher who, after all, has a 1.80 ERA and positive WPA in 10 IP.
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Post by incandenza on May 10, 2023 13:33:30 GMT -5
Another case of the old: everyone wants their public figures to be "authentic," and then as soon as they do anything other than dispense PR-approved pap everyone acts all insulted.
The comment seemed totally fine to me.
Order of preference:
1. Authentic good guy 2. Bad guy who hides it well 3. Authentic bad guy
My view is that thinking there are "authentic good guys" and "authentic bad guys" is part of the problem.
If anything my order of preference is: guys who are bad at cultivating a good public image>guys who are good at it. I always had a soft spot for David Price for this reason, and always preferred A-Rod to Jeter.
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Post by julyanmorley on May 10, 2023 14:04:35 GMT -5
ERod added another great start to his season, just in case anyone needed another reminder that it's impossible to predict anything in baseball.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,632
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Post by shagworthy on May 10, 2023 14:30:23 GMT -5
No Raffy tonight..
#RedSox today: Refsnyder LF, Verdugo RF, Turner 3B, Yoshida DH, Hernández SS, Duran CF, Casas 1B, Wong C, Valdez 2B, and Bello RHP.
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Post by grandsalami on May 10, 2023 14:31:25 GMT -5
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Post by notstarboard on May 10, 2023 14:37:03 GMT -5
Order of preference:
1. Authentic good guy 2. Bad guy who hides it well 3. Authentic bad guy
My view is that thinking there are "authentic good guys" and "authentic bad guys" is part of the problem.
If anything my order of preference is: guys who are bad at cultivating a good public image>guys who are good at it. I always had a soft spot for David Price for this reason, and always preferred A-Rod to Jeter.
Obviously "good" and "bad" are subjective, but #1 would be people who don't need to cultivate much of anything because they are naturally likeable to most people. Take Ohtani, for example, or Devers.
#2/3 would be your players who aren't necessarily great humans but who are bad/good at cultivating a public image. I'm sure there are a whole bunch of players in MLB who are aggressive jerks, or who have political views I would find abhorrent, or what have you. As a fan, I would prefer those kinds of players just smile and wave so we can all focus on baseball instead of what terrible people they are (#2). if they don't have it in them to be civil in interviews and keep it together on the field, they become #3, and I can't help but not like them. I would absolutely prefer a league of Jeters to a league of Prices and A-Rods.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on May 10, 2023 14:40:33 GMT -5
Brasier lives another day...
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Post by ematz1423 on May 10, 2023 14:46:45 GMT -5
ERod added another great start to his season, just in case anyone needed another reminder that it's impossible to predict anything in baseball. I don't know that anyone could or should have predicted E-Rod to start off the year with 51 IP and a 1.57 ERA but I also don't think it's absolutely shocking either. I always saw E-Rod as talented pitcher whose main issues were between his ears rather than his talent level. At this rate should he stay healthy the Tigers may be able to get a real nice return for him since once again at this rate he's opting out at the end of the season since he'd probably be the 4th or 5th best SP on the market after Ohtani, Urias and Nola.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 10, 2023 15:20:07 GMT -5
Lol, the ALE last place MFY have a better record than the ALC ‘first place’ Twins…. 162 games:
Two 15 team leagues (with no divisions)
Vs NL 45 (15 teams x 3 games) Vs AL 117 (4 current division teams x 9 games and 10 non-current division x 8 games, plus 1 against whoever).
Top 6 finishers in each league make playoffs…
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Post by ematz1423 on May 10, 2023 15:44:34 GMT -5
Lol, the ALE last place MFY have a better record than the ALC ‘first place’ Twins…. 162 games: Two 15 team leagues (with no divisions)Vs NL 45 (15 teams x 3 games) Vs AL 117 (4 current division teams x 9 games and 10 non-current division x 8 games, plus 1 against whoever). Top 6 finishers in each league make playoffs… While I don't disagree with the idea of getting rid of the divisions the likelihood seems very low to me unless and until they expand the league to 32 teams. Of course knowing baseball they'd probably do something stupid and have four divisions of four teams and make things even worse.
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Post by redsoxpride34 on May 10, 2023 15:49:48 GMT -5
Were they really “in on” Murphy, though? He definitely was a good fit(and I know the board was clamoring for him). But I never saw any potential deals and got the feeling that Bloom wasn’t willing to part with the prospect capital to make the deal anyway. I never got the sense that he was particularly close to being dealt to the Sox. The Braves just always seem to have an endless array of prospects from which to deal. I don’t think the Sox could match that(unless they were going to include a guy like Mayer). I don't know that the Sox were ever really deep into talks on Murphy but really if you look at the package the Braves gave up it wasn't really that much if you ask me. Seems like they could have gotten him without giving up Mayer but the A's are a weird team that values players what appears at least to me somewhat drastically different than most. Seems to me like they tend to lean "quantity" over "quality", at least in the case of the Murphy deal it seems they could have and should have got more. Ya totally agree. No way Mayer would have been involved. The A's didn't get any blue-chip prospects for murphy. More quantity than any high-end guys. The brewers got the player who I thought would be headed to Oakland as the centerpiece of the deal in Contreras which made the deal even more strange. Obviously we don't know what the ask was from the sox but based on the return I'd have hard imagining it being anything too crazy. Nice see wong take some steps forward this season and hopefully he keeps it up but I'd say not trading for murphy and letting xander go were Blooms biggest fails of the offseason.
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Post by julyanmorley on May 10, 2023 15:50:47 GMT -5
Do teams want the cupcake schedule or do they want the marquee franchises on the schedule more often? I'm not even sure who is on which side of the unbalanced schedule debate.
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Post by redsoxpride34 on May 10, 2023 15:55:23 GMT -5
Sorry, but the idea that Pivetta should be DFA'd is a bit shortsighted. If you're going to get rid of him, you *must* get something in return through a trade. For sure, if Bloom can find a trade for Pivetta then absolutely thats the route to go. Doubt he could get anything for Brasier or Blier so those two will almost certainly be DFA's.
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Post by yuchangclan on May 10, 2023 15:56:39 GMT -5
The way this season is playing out so far has boosted my confidence in the team's talent evaluation. Not just because of the guys they did sign (Yoshida, Jansen, Duvall), but because of the guys they went after but came up short (Eflin, Eovaldi) and the guys they could have gone after but didn't (all those pitchers, Segura, Andrus). They certainly made better decisions than I would have in several cases.
Jose Abreu and Andrew Benintendi are two guys they made offers to that are stinking up the joint this year Benintendi is a strange case. Where did all his power go? He has 34 hits this year and 27 of them are singles. The rest are doubles. That’s good for a .315SLG(which would be the worst of his career). It’s early, but that contract looks like it could be long and UGLY for the White Sox. Abreu I have more confidence in(unless he just got old overnight). He’s been too good for too long to just suddenly become a stiff.
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Post by kingstephanos on May 10, 2023 15:59:55 GMT -5
ERod added another great start to his season, just in case anyone needed another reminder that it's impossible to predict anything in baseball. I don't know that anyone could or should have predicted E-Rod to start off the year with 51 IP and a 1.57 ERA but I also don't think it's absolutely shocking either. I always saw E-Rod as talented pitcher whose main issues were between his ears rather than his talent level. At this rate should he stay healthy the Tigers may be able to get a real nice return for him since once again at this rate he's opting out at the end of the season since he'd probably be the 4th or 5th best SP on the market after Ohtani, Urias and Nola. I would have to add the horrendous infield defense played behind him in Boston (Devers, Bogaerts etc.) to the tally as well.
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Post by yuchangclan on May 10, 2023 16:00:16 GMT -5
Jose Abreu and Andrew Benintendi are two guys they made offers to that are stinking up the joint this year I guess I'm not inclined to ding them for offering less-than-market rate to guys who have gone on to underperform. Of course their judgment hasn't been perfect (see Kluber), but it's been better than most.
By the way, speaking of Abreu, those Astros suddenly aren't looking so hot - for this season, with their feeble offense and crumbling pitching staff, and maybe the long-term, given the aging of some of their stars and the threadbare state of their farm system.
Altuve and Brantley haven’t even played yet this season. Both are supposed to be back in the next few weeks. Pitching might be an issue given all the injuries, but they are still formidable. Probably not as stacked as the last couple years, however.
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Post by redsoxpride34 on May 10, 2023 16:00:21 GMT -5
Sorry, but the idea that Pivetta should be DFA'd is a bit shortsighted. If you're going to get rid of him, you *must* get something in return through a trade. Especially considering that Paxton is a huge question mark and Kluber is more of a physical break down risk than Pivetta. I'd very much like to get rid of Kluber too but I'd imagine Pivetta would get the axe before him.
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Post by incandenza on May 10, 2023 16:06:31 GMT -5
Jose Abreu and Andrew Benintendi are two guys they made offers to that are stinking up the joint this year Benintendi is a strange case. Where did all his power go? He has 34 hits this year and 27 of them are singles. The rest are doubles. That’s good for a .315SLG(which would be the worst of his career). It’s early, but that contract looks like it could be long and UGLY for the White Sox. Abreu I have more confidence in(unless he just got old overnight). He’s been too good for too long to just suddenly become a stiff. Abreu falling off like this doesn't entirely surprise me. His ISO dropped a lot last season, from .200+ in every previous season to .141 (and is .042 this year), and he was helped a lot by a high BABIP. I think there was some decline under the hood last year at age 35, and now he's a year older. I'm sure he can do better than his current .526 OPS but I wouldn't be shocked if he remains a below-average hitter for that whole contract.
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