SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Celtics 2023 Offseason Thread
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Jun 22, 2023 10:12:50 GMT -5
Will also add I'm still a believer in Pritchard, I think the Celtics might trade him, but like if they send him to Miami there is no doubt in my mind that he becomes a decent rotation player. So I'm okay if they keep him and give a little run to him too.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 22, 2023 10:33:03 GMT -5
This team needs Bogdon’s shooting. If he’s hurt and can’t shoot that’s a big problem. Porzingis improves the shooting overall but they also need the backcourt shooting of Brogdon and White to show his improvements are real. Hauser needs to have a bigger role next year.
If Whithead is available at 25 and the Celtics pass on him that’s a mistake. Way too much upside there. They just hired Amir Jefferson who was his coach last season so maybe he will provide some insight.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2023 11:29:28 GMT -5
I'm not going to continue the long post on Jaime Jaquez, so I'll do it here. If you go back and read my original take on him, I say everything won't translate. That being said I do think you're wrong as I think he can easily be a starter and any team that draft him that won't use his high skill level is stupid. Been seeing Warriors linked to him, he'd be perfect for them. I do think it will be more assists and less points likely. Yet I wouldn't rule out him being a darn good scorer in the NBA. His handle going into zone D is unbelievable, he keeps ball low and has so many moves. I'm not going to lie, I see an American version of Doncic. The skill level and ability to take and make crazy hard shots. The guys biggest weakness isn't hard shots, it's catch and shoot shots. He's elite at the hard shots and below average on the easy ones. That's a crazy stat line. Strong, tough, high IQ player, who is also a much better athlete than he shows on the court. His max verticals are close to elite, you don't see it watching him, yet it's there.
The funny thing is, I never saw on tape Colby Jones ever even try a bunch of the shots Jaquez takes. I actually worry more about him. I think he can be a good shooter if he takes high quality shots, think Grant Williams. Jaquez was shooting almost 39% from off the dribble 3 point shots, that's a crazy number. Tatum can't even do that.
As much as I love Jaquez, the Celtics aren't the best fit for him given we have no offensive system right now and we turn players into spot up 3 point shooters. Yeah Jones is probably a better fit for that role. I just don’t trust our coach.
On Bailey I get, again if you go back to my original post on him, I'm focusing on his end of season run and combine performance. Having watched the whole season you got to see all the ugly for 80% of the year. The more TO than assists crap, inefficient scoring. Yet he was damn good in conference tournament and NCAA tournament, then was a huge winner at the combine two scrimmages. Finally getting a chance to play PG, which he didn't at UCLA basically. The 3 guys I mentioned came to mind for their on ball defense, which Bailey is very good at. Now maybe I'm putting too much stock in a handful of games and two games at combine. Yet elite recruit getting crazy better and playing his best at the biggest stages is meaningful for me. If you read his combine reports you might better understand where I'm coming from. You draft raw freshman, it's not about what they are, it's what they can become.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2023 11:34:17 GMT -5
This team needs Bogdon’s shooting. If he’s hurt and can’t shoot that’s a big problem. Porzingis improves the shooting overall but they also need the backcourt shooting of Brogdon and White to show his improvements are real. Hauser needs to have a bigger role next year. If Whithead is available at 25 and the Celtics pass on him that’s a mistake. Way too much upside there. They just hired Amir Jefferson who was his coach last season so maybe he will provide some insight. Pritchard is a better shooter than Brogdon. The funny thing about Whitehead is that shooting was his big weakness coming out of high school |
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,864 
|
Post by shagworthy on Jun 22, 2023 12:03:11 GMT -5
I like the trade even though it kills me to see Smart gone. A non-Celtic take is Smart is going to help that Memphis team immensely in the place they need it most, maturity. He's going to hold those guys accountable and he's going to be in Ja's ear. Smart is almost too perfect a fit for that team that needed almost everything he brings on and off the court. Look for Memphis to be an even tougher team next year.
|
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 22, 2023 12:06:20 GMT -5
I'm not going to continue the long post on Jaime Jaquez, so I'll do it here. If you go back and read my original take on him, I say everything won't translate. That being said I do think you're wrong as I think he can easily be a starter and any team that draft him that won't use his high skill level is stupid. Been seeing Warriors linked to him, he'd be perfect for them. I do think it will be more assists and less points likely. Yet I wouldn't rule out him being a darn good scorer in the NBA. His handle going into zone D is unbelievable, he keeps ball low and has so many moves. I'm not going to lie, I see an American version of Doncic. The skill level and ability to take and make crazy hard shots. The guys biggest weakness isn't hard shots, it's catch and shoot shots. He's elite at the hard shots and below average on the easy ones. That's a crazy stat line. Strong, tough, high IQ player, who is also a much better athlete than he shows on the court. His max verticals are close to elite, you don't see it watching him, yet it's there. The funny thing is, I never saw on tape Colby Jones ever even try a bunch of the shots Jaquez takes. I actually worry more about him. I think he can be a good shooter if he takes high quality shots, think Grant Williams. Jaquez was shooting almost 39% from off the dribble 3 point shots, that's a crazy number. Tatum can't even do that. As much as I love Jaquez, the Celtics aren't the best fit for him given we have no offensive system right now and we turn players into spot up 3 point shooters. Yeah Jones is probably a better fit for that role. I just don’t trust our coach. On Bailey I get, again if you go back to my original post on him, I'm focusing on his end of season run and combine performance. Having watched the whole season you got to see all the ugly for 80% of the year. The more TO than assists crap, inefficient scoring. Yet he was damn good in conference tournament and NCAA tournament, then was a huge winner at the combine two scrimmages. Finally getting a chance to play PG, which he didn't at UCLA basically. The 3 guys I mentioned came to mind for their on ball defense, which Bailey is very good at. Now maybe I'm putting too much stock in a handful of games and two games at combine. Yet elite recruit getting crazy better and playing his best at the biggest stages is meaningful for me. If you read his combine reports you might better understand where I'm coming from. You draft raw freshman, it's not about what they are, it's what they can become. I mean, I just think your analysis here is flat out incorrect in many instances, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion! Also I’m not quite sure where I said he’d never be a starter, but whatever. Thanks for the laugh on the Luka comp |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,607
|
Post by nomar on Jun 22, 2023 12:41:23 GMT -5
If I had to choose someone in our range right now I think I’d go Sensabaugh. I’d love to move up a little higher for Hawkins though.
|
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Jun 22, 2023 12:55:58 GMT -5
Himmelsbach reporting that LAC was just concerned about not being able to do a physical exam. Brodgon may need surgery but his expected to be ready for the start of the season.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
Member is Online
|
Post by mobaz on Jun 22, 2023 13:03:07 GMT -5
(Trying to put aside my feelings for Marcus, for whom I have much love and trust, and instead process the next steps here...) Wondering if this, plus a likely FastPP move clears the way for Yam Madar to come over? None of the mock drafts have been updated to account for a possible C's pick at 25 but it would seem the depth in that range is in 3-and-D wing types, so that's where they'd likely find the most value. Madar seems like he's ready to make the jump and fills the backup PG slot nicely. No idea how he's been maturing relative to what it takes to make it to an NBA game, but I hope Madar might be ready since the draft likely won't leave a ball handler available. As I said above, I'd much rather have lost Brodgon than Smart, but upon further reflection, we see the ceiling of a team with Smart as the 3rd best player (does not lead to a title), and if he's the leader and heart & soul and the team consistently lacks heart and soul at key moments, doesn't it make sense to try something different. Overall I'd give the trade a B+ but it's a way bigger swing trading away Smart than Brodgon. Hope Dem Picks become impact players on good contracts! Brad the Bold is fascinating to watch. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2023 13:28:37 GMT -5
I'm not going to continue the long post on Jaime Jaquez, so I'll do it here. If you go back and read my original take on him, I say everything won't translate. That being said I do think you're wrong as I think he can easily be a starter and any team that draft him that won't use his high skill level is stupid. Been seeing Warriors linked to him, he'd be perfect for them. I do think it will be more assists and less points likely. Yet I wouldn't rule out him being a darn good scorer in the NBA. His handle going into zone D is unbelievable, he keeps ball low and has so many moves. I'm not going to lie, I see an American version of Doncic. The skill level and ability to take and make crazy hard shots. The guys biggest weakness isn't hard shots, it's catch and shoot shots. He's elite at the hard shots and below average on the easy ones. That's a crazy stat line. Strong, tough, high IQ player, who is also a much better athlete than he shows on the court. His max verticals are close to elite, you don't see it watching him, yet it's there. The funny thing is, I never saw on tape Colby Jones ever even try a bunch of the shots Jaquez takes. I actually worry more about him. I think he can be a good shooter if he takes high quality shots, think Grant Williams. Jaquez was shooting almost 39% from off the dribble 3 point shots, that's a crazy number. Tatum can't even do that. As much as I love Jaquez, the Celtics aren't the best fit for him given we have no offensive system right now and we turn players into spot up 3 point shooters. Yeah Jones is probably a better fit for that role. I just don’t trust our coach. On Bailey I get, again if you go back to my original post on him, I'm focusing on his end of season run and combine performance. Having watched the whole season you got to see all the ugly for 80% of the year. The more TO than assists crap, inefficient scoring. Yet he was damn good in conference tournament and NCAA tournament, then was a huge winner at the combine two scrimmages. Finally getting a chance to play PG, which he didn't at UCLA basically. The 3 guys I mentioned came to mind for their on ball defense, which Bailey is very good at. Now maybe I'm putting too much stock in a handful of games and two games at combine. Yet elite recruit getting crazy better and playing his best at the biggest stages is meaningful for me. If you read his combine reports you might better understand where I'm coming from. You draft raw freshman, it's not about what they are, it's what they can become. I mean, I just think your analysis here is flat out incorrect in many instances, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion! Also I’m not quite sure where I said he’d never be a starter, but whatever. Thanks for the laugh on the Luka comp Not the first time and it won't be the last. No worries, I stand by what I say with pride backed up by my past choices. I got a ton of that on Nesmith and my top 3 at 14 of Anthony, Maxey and Bane. I got that saying I didn't think Fultz was the lock #1 type guy, how I was higher on Tatum, my Ball takes for years. Going back to me wanting Murray over Brown to Smart and Randle at 6th pick. To my love of Robert Williams falling to us. I'm one of the biggest draft nuts you'll find and I'm certainly not always right. I'd say the same thing with you, saying a team isn't drafting a highly skilled player for those skills! I'd point out diehard fans can sometimes make horrible scouts. You can focus to much on a fault that cost you a few games, more than the positives. Look at some of the Jaylen Brown takes recently as a perfect example. You called him a rotation wing, that's were I got that. Starters will have no issue getting touches. Can you think of a team that could use a guy in the high and low post that destroys zone D? He's a one man destroyer of zone D. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 22, 2023 14:03:23 GMT -5
This team needs Bogdon’s shooting. If he’s hurt and can’t shoot that’s a big problem. Porzingis improves the shooting overall but they also need the backcourt shooting of Brogdon and White to show his improvements are real. Hauser needs to have a bigger role next year. If Whithead is available at 25 and the Celtics pass on him that’s a mistake. Way too much upside there. They just hired Amir Jefferson who was his coach last season so maybe he will provide some insight. Pritchard is a better shooter than Brogdon. The funny thing about Whitehead is that shooting was his big weakness coming out of high school He’s way too talented to pass up at 25. Sure he could bust but his ability is that of a top 5 pick in this draft |
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Jun 22, 2023 14:13:58 GMT -5
Wow. Paul to the Warriors for a package including Jordan Poole.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
Member is Online
|
Post by mobaz on Jun 22, 2023 14:45:28 GMT -5
Wow. Paul to the Warriors for a package including Jordan Poole. Best response! |
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jun 22, 2023 14:57:32 GMT -5
This Wizards front office has not inspired much confidence.
|
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jun 22, 2023 14:58:11 GMT -5
Also, it makes the 2024 Warriors pick that we just received more likely to be late in the first round, which stinks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Jun 22, 2023 14:58:50 GMT -5
Wow. Paul to the Warriors for a package including Jordan Poole. Bro I think Chris Paul is cooked so it’s hard to expect much of a return, but leave it to the Wizards to turn a bad thing into a worse one. Poole is a f*ckballer who can’t defend to save his life. He isn’t a JAG, but he’s overpaid and doesn’t make sense on a rebuilding team. The Wizards are probably expecting him to regain some trade value, but he would have to play his ass off for any team to take that contract. Imagine being a Wizards fan. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,607
|
Post by nomar on Jun 22, 2023 15:09:35 GMT -5
Also, it makes the 2024 Warriors pick that we just received more likely to be late in the first round, which stinks. Even more of a reason to use that pick to trade up into Hawkins, Dick or Wallace territory. |
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Jun 22, 2023 15:10:25 GMT -5
Wow. Paul to the Warriors for a package including Jordan Poole. Bro I think Chris Paul is cooked so it’s hard to expect much of a return, but leave it to the Wizards to turn a bad thing into a worse one. Poole is a f*ckballer who can’t defend to save his life. He isn’t a JAG, but he’s overpaid and doesn’t make sense on a rebuilding team. The Wizards are probably expecting him to regain some trade value, but he would have to play his ass off for any team to take that contract. Imagine being a Wizards fan. I don't like Poole at all but they do have to spend their money somewhere since there is a salary floor. My guess is they didn't get much other in the way of offers for Paul as they probably hoped when they took him and figured why not take a shot on a 24 year old who has shown some potential and some extra draft capital. Like you said best case scenario Poole regains some value this year and they can flip him next year, worst case scenario he continues to look the way he did this season at which point he probably helps their rebuild by stinking it up. I don't love it for either team to be honest but I get it for both teams. |
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
Member is Online
|
Post by mobaz on Jun 22, 2023 15:17:10 GMT -5
Bro I think Chris Paul is cooked so it’s hard to expect much of a return, but leave it to the Wizards to turn a bad thing into a worse one. Poole is a f*ckballer who can’t defend to save his life. He isn’t a JAG, but he’s overpaid and doesn’t make sense on a rebuilding team. The Wizards are probably expecting him to regain some trade value, but he would have to play his ass off for any team to take that contract. Imagine being a Wizards fan. I don't like Poole at all but they do have to spend their money somewhere since there is a salary floor. My guess is they didn't get much other in the way of offers for Paul as they probably hoped when they took him and figured why not take a shot on a 24 year old who has shown some potential and some extra draft capital. Like you said best case scenario Poole regains some value this year and they can flip him next year, worst case scenario he continues to look the way he did this season at which point he probably helps their rebuild by stinking it up. I don't love it for either team to be honest but I get it for both teams. And another! |
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Jun 22, 2023 15:32:24 GMT -5
I don't like Poole at all but they do have to spend their money somewhere since there is a salary floor. My guess is they didn't get much other in the way of offers for Paul as they probably hoped when they took him and figured why not take a shot on a 24 year old who has shown some potential and some extra draft capital. Like you said best case scenario Poole regains some value this year and they can flip him next year, worst case scenario he continues to look the way he did this season at which point he probably helps their rebuild by stinking it up. I don't love it for either team to be honest but I get it for both teams. And another! In fairness vs that tweet the actual trade has been finalized now according to Woj and the Wizards acquire the Suns 2nd rounders in 24,25,26,27 and 28 as well as first round swaps in 24,26,28 and 30. Obviously that 24 swap is irrelevant but Durant is getting old, Beal isn't a spring chicken and they won't have much ability to add players elsewhere with that trio of Durant/Booker/Beal making what they do assuming Ayton is dealt. If he's not it'd be even worse. Those pick swaps could be pretty dang valuable in 28 and 30 if Wizards have righted the ship by then and the Suns presumably are on the downswing. |
|
|
|
Post by tizzle on Jun 22, 2023 16:17:05 GMT -5
In fairness vs that tweet the actual trade has been finalized now according to Woj and the Wizards acquire the Suns 2nd rounders in 24,25,26,27 and 28 as well as first round swaps in 24,26,28 and 30. Obviously that 24 swap is irrelevant but Durant is getting old, Beal isn't a spring chicken and they won't have much ability to add players elsewhere with that trio of Durant/Booker/Beal making what they do assuming Ayton is dealt. If he's not it'd be even worse. Those pick swaps could be pretty dang valuable in 28 and 30 if Wizards have righted the ship by then and the Suns presumably are on the downswing. And not to be nit-picky (even though I am about to be), but they got Paul for Beal so listing them both as assets they gave up is just incorrect framing. If I buy a $5 sandwich with a $10 bill and then buy another with the change, I didn't "buy two sandwiches for a $10 and a $5". I bought them both for 10. Likewise the return from the Beal and Paul trades are each a total return from Beal. Just saying. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 22, 2023 16:49:13 GMT -5
Also, it makes the 2024 Warriors pick that we just received more likely to be late in the first round, which stinks. I’m not sure I agree with this. Paul is old and can’t stay on the court. I think this makes it more likely they sleep walk thru the season again and god forbid what happens when Paul and Curry miss time with injuries. I don’t like Poole and he had a bad year last year but he did get punched in the face by his teammate in the preseason so it’s not surprising he was off. |
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on Jun 22, 2023 16:50:40 GMT -5
Givony mocked Rayan Rupert to us, I would like that. He can switch onto PG’s and cause problems with his length.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2023 16:56:35 GMT -5
Pritchard is a better shooter than Brogdon. The funny thing about Whitehead is that shooting was his big weakness coming out of high school He’s way too talented to pass up at 25. Sure he could bust but his ability is that of a top 5 pick in this draft That might be true if his foot injury heels 100% and he regains his athletic ability from High School. His rebounding numbers are pathetic for a guy his size, weight, wingspan and athletic ability. Very bad assist to TO numbers. The good last 5 games in tournaments he really raised his efficiency and started getting steals like he should. The bad his assists to TO ratio got crazy worse and again no rebounding. Now is that him just being raw or his injury? That makes evaluating him rather hard because his Duke tape isn't top 5 stuff. High School he's dunking everything, power drives, MJ up and under moves, you see why he was #1 recruit. At Duke not many power dunks, no MJ drives and he's doing soft layups on most fast breaks. It's just nice shooting on his Duke tape, the rest is so so. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,607
|
Post by nomar on Jun 22, 2023 17:01:44 GMT -5
Givony mocked Rayan Rupert to us, I would like that. He can switch onto PG’s and cause problems with his length. I can’t find anything that convinces me he’ll be good enough to make it in the league offensively |
|
|
