SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Corey Kluber Moving to the bullpen
|
Post by grandsalami on May 24, 2023 12:42:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on May 24, 2023 12:56:21 GMT -5
Hand him a mop. It was either that or a pink slip. The move should lower starter's ERA while inflating the bullpen's ERA.
Honestly I don't see him being better in the pen.
I get why Houck is staying in the rotation and not going to the pen to improve the pen. I just hope Crawford can help the pen in a multi inning 6th/7th inning role that I figured Houck would be part of.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on May 24, 2023 12:57:25 GMT -5
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,888
|
Post by nomar on May 24, 2023 13:00:17 GMT -5
7 run lead closer with a blistering 88 mph fastball
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2023 13:03:51 GMT -5
His stuff definitely won't "play up" the way Pivetta's theoretically could in a bullpen role - but maybe he could pass for one of those annoying Rays relievers that only throws weird breaking stuff for an inning? I.e. Matt Wisler, Colin McHugh, etc. Otherwise yeah - have fun in garbage time, Corey.
|
|
|
Post by bellhorndingers21 on May 24, 2023 13:11:47 GMT -5
Wyatt Mills 40 man spot placeholder.
|
|
|
Post by notstarboard on May 24, 2023 13:28:45 GMT -5
You have to feel that Kluber is very much on the block right now. When Whitlock and Schreiber come back, this will be the staff:
Sale Paxton Bello Houck Whitlock
Jansen Martin Winckowski Crawford Pivetta Schreiber Rodriguez Kluber
I get optioning Bernardino and Garza at first to maintain depth even if Kluber might be less valuable than them in the pen, but what happens when Bleier is ready to come back if there are no other injuries or unexpected implosions? DFA Bleier? If not Bleier, the only two I could see would be Joely or Kluber. Maybe they can invent an injury to buy time with an IL stint, but still, eventually something has to give.
Given that Crawford and Pivetta are both already SP depth and theoretically provide more value in the pen in the meantime, I don't think we need to go out of our way to keep a struggling Kluber around as a potential 8 starter. I could definitely see eating his contract for a lottery ticket or two. And if not, the same could apply to Rodriguez and Bleier. I just think Kluber's pedigree and ability to start makes him the more valuable reclamation project.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,164
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on May 24, 2023 13:40:53 GMT -5
Maybe he can fix his command in the pen
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on May 24, 2023 13:56:37 GMT -5
I don't see this being much more than just an insurance policy in case one of the other starters gets hurt again in the next week or two. I don't see his stuff being any better in the bullpen so he's a straight up mop-up long reliever if he even makes it into a game. As Notstarboard said when Whitlock and Schreiber are back what role would Kluber really have?
|
|
|
Post by seamus on May 24, 2023 13:58:50 GMT -5
Maybe it'll save Crawford from having to handle multi-inning mop up duty in a blowout. Pivetta could do that, too, but the hope would be that Nick's stuff plays up enough that he can do more than soak up innings in a 10-run game.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxpride34 on May 24, 2023 14:05:39 GMT -5
You have to feel that Kluber is very much on the block right now. When Whitlock and Schreiber come back, this will be the staff: Sale Paxton Bello Houck Whitlock Jansen Martin Winckowski Crawford Pivetta Schreiber Rodriguez Kluber I get optioning Bernardino and Garza at first to maintain depth even if Kluber might be less valuable than them in the pen, but what happens when Bleier is ready to come back if there are no other injuries or unexpected implosions? DFA Bleier? If not Bleier, the only two I could see would be Joely or Kluber. Maybe they can invent an injury to buy time with an IL stint, but still, eventually something has to give. Given that Crawford and Pivetta are both already SP depth and theoretically provide more value in the pen in the meantime, I don't think we need to go out of our way to keep a struggling Kluber around as a potential 8 starter. I could definitely see eating his contract for a lottery ticket or two. And if not, the same could apply to Rodriguez and Bleier. I just think Kluber's pedigree and ability to start makes him the more valuable reclamation project. If they are smart, it would be: Sale Bello Houck Paxton Crawford Jansen Whitlock Martin Winckowski Pivetta Rodriguez Kluber/Blier (eventually Schrieber) Whitlock is far more valuable at this point pitching high leverage relief innings. Crawford could be just as good, if not better as a starter and we know how elite Whitelock was in the pen. Whitlock throwing 94mph as a starter is not the same pitcher.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on May 24, 2023 14:49:51 GMT -5
Just a reminder that Bloom walked away from Eovaldi after making him an initial offer when Nate wanted to further test the market. When Eovaldi came back to the Sox in Dec seeking to return, the window was closed (at least, if I'm recalling the reporting correctly). According to Fangraphs, Eovaldi has earned $18.9M in WAR value so far this year - so $1.9M more than his AAV for the year and it's not even June. His full contract is for 2 years at $17M per year with an innings vesting option for a third year.
Kluber, who can be seen as a lower cost replacement for Eovaldi, has generated -$3.4M in WAR value and is now headed to the pen.
|
|
|
Post by notstarboard on May 24, 2023 15:02:11 GMT -5
You have to feel that Kluber is very much on the block right now. When Whitlock and Schreiber come back, this will be the staff: Sale Paxton Bello Houck Whitlock Jansen Martin Winckowski Crawford Pivetta Schreiber Rodriguez Kluber I get optioning Bernardino and Garza at first to maintain depth even if Kluber might be less valuable than them in the pen, but what happens when Bleier is ready to come back if there are no other injuries or unexpected implosions? DFA Bleier? If not Bleier, the only two I could see would be Joely or Kluber. Maybe they can invent an injury to buy time with an IL stint, but still, eventually something has to give. Given that Crawford and Pivetta are both already SP depth and theoretically provide more value in the pen in the meantime, I don't think we need to go out of our way to keep a struggling Kluber around as a potential 8 starter. I could definitely see eating his contract for a lottery ticket or two. And if not, the same could apply to Rodriguez and Bleier. I just think Kluber's pedigree and ability to start makes him the more valuable reclamation project. If they are smart, it would be: Sale Bello Houck Paxton Crawford Jansen Whitlock Martin Winckowski Pivetta Rodriguez Kluber/Blier (eventually Schrieber) Whitlock is far more valuable at this point pitching high leverage relief innings. Crawford could be just as good, if not better as a starter and we know how elite Whitelock was in the pen. Whitlock throwing 94mph as a starter is not the same pitcher. You might be right, but Whitlock also hasn't really been healthy as a starter yet. I think it's too early to pull the plug on that. I think Whitlock's ceiling is considerably higher than Crawford's.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on May 24, 2023 15:06:35 GMT -5
Just a reminder that Bloom walked away from Eovaldi after making him an initial offer when Nate wanted to further test the market. When Eovaldi came back to the Sox in Dec seeking to return, the window was closed (at least, if I'm recalling the reporting correctly). According to Fangraphs, Eovaldi has earned $18.9M in WAR value so far this year - so $1.9M more than his AAV for the year and it's not even June. His full contract is for 2 years at $17M per year with an innings vesting option for a third year. Kluber, who can be seen as a lower cost replacement for Eovaldi, has generated -$3.4M in WAR value and is now headed to the pen. Well which is it? "Bloom walked away from Eovaldi" or "Nate wanted to further test the market"?
However you want to describe it, it's true that the Red Sox prioritized Eovaldi but he rejected their offer, though it is apparently the best one he would end up receiving. But what is the point of bringing this up over and over again? No one needs the "reminder." (Should we also issue reminders that the Red Sox didn't pursue Rodon, Bassitt, Verlander, or Correa, even though a lot of people wanted to sign one of those guys?)
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on May 24, 2023 15:15:00 GMT -5
Just a reminder that Bloom walked away from Eovaldi after making him an initial offer when Nate wanted to further test the market. When Eovaldi came back to the Sox in Dec seeking to return, the window was closed (at least, if I'm recalling the reporting correctly). According to Fangraphs, Eovaldi has earned $18.9M in WAR value so far this year - so $1.9M more than his AAV for the year and it's not even June. His full contract is for 2 years at $17M per year with an innings vesting option for a third year. Kluber, who can be seen as a lower cost replacement for Eovaldi, has generated -$3.4M in WAR value and is now headed to the pen. Well which is it? "Bloom walked away from Eovaldi" or "Nate wanted to further test the market"?
However you want to describe it, it's true that the Red Sox prioritized Eovaldi but he rejected their offer, though it is apparently the best one he would end up receiving. But what is the point of bringing this up over and over again? No one needs the "reminder." (Should we also issue reminders that the Red Sox didn't pursue Rodon, Bassitt, Verlander, or Correa, even though a lot of people wanted to sign one of those guys?)
yup... and if someone rejects your offer, its even more risky to wait around and hope they come back to you. then you end up with nothing... Most offers have a set timeline to accept, be it in sports, or other areas in which contracts are signed...
|
|
|
Post by notstarboard on May 24, 2023 15:24:34 GMT -5
Just a reminder that Bloom walked away from Eovaldi after making him an initial offer when Nate wanted to further test the market. When Eovaldi came back to the Sox in Dec seeking to return, the window was closed (at least, if I'm recalling the reporting correctly). According to Fangraphs, Eovaldi has earned $18.9M in WAR value so far this year - so $1.9M more than his AAV for the year and it's not even June. His full contract is for 2 years at $17M per year with an innings vesting option for a third year. Kluber, who can be seen as a lower cost replacement for Eovaldi, has generated -$3.4M in WAR value and is now headed to the pen. Tough luck for sure, but I don't think anyone had a 0.4 HR/9 for Eovaldi on their bingo card, especially without a rebound in stuff. He averaged 1.3 HR/9 from 2018-2022, including 0.7 in 2021 when he put up 5.7 fWAR and got CY votes. Dropping his slider this year has helped a lot, but still, I'm surprised how well he's done. I was wondering if it was competition-based, and while he has faced a number of terrible teams this year he's carved up some good ones and struggled against some bad ones. Looks like he's just been cruising for the past month or so.
For the fun of it, opponents and results for Evo this year:
PHI (22nd best offense) - 5 IP, 3 ER
CHC (12th) - 5.2 IP, 2 ER KC (25th) - 5 IP, 6 ER
KC (25th) - 6 IP, 2 ER CIN (21st) - 6 IP, 3 ER NYY (11th, but without Judge/Stanton; Willie Calhoun was hitting 5th in this one) - 9 IP, 0 ER LAA (8th) - 8 IP, 0 ER
OAK (27th) - 8.2 IP, 0 ER
ATL (7th) - 7 IP, 3 ER PIT (17th) - 9 IP, 1 ER
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on May 24, 2023 15:44:27 GMT -5
Give them credit for making some tough decisions on Kluber and Pivetta, can't say they're not playing to win. Was it really a tough decision at least in regards to Kluber? They clearly couldn't keep rolling the corpse of Kluber out there. To me the tough decision on Kluber will be DFA'ing him and eating that money if/when he doesn't look any better in the bullpen. Right now he's a complete waste of a 40 man spot in my eyes.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxpride34 on May 24, 2023 15:47:31 GMT -5
Give them credit for making some tough decisions on Kluber and Pivetta, can't say they're not playing to win. I'd give them credit if they actually made some tough decisions instead of delaying/avoiding them. DFA Kluber and trade Pivetta. Thats making actual tough decisions. Give those spots to guys in the system who might actually offer something out of the pen and/or see what's out there on the market. A lefty reliever who doesn't suck would be awesome.
|
|
|
Post by blizzards39 on May 24, 2023 15:48:00 GMT -5
I was expecting tired arm DL stint with rehab. Obviously Kluber said NFW to that. I don’t see any value in the pen other than taking a bullet in a one sider. I honestly see Crawford and Pivetta as better options in the rotation, but strange things happen in MLB and they happen fast. No Sence. DFA for the sake of it.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on May 24, 2023 15:56:29 GMT -5
I am very happy with this. Crawford can get his shot next year when the Sox opt not to give Paxton a 10 year contract.
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on May 24, 2023 15:59:46 GMT -5
I'll also add I really didn't mind the contract when it was signed, I figured he'd be a fine innings eater with like a 4.5-5 ERA which clearly he has not been. Clearly it doesn't look great right now so most likely it'll be 10M in sunk cost.
My biggest takeaway right now is that thank goodness they appear to have room under the luxury tax. Can you imagine the outrage if they were to go over again due to Kluber's 10M?
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on May 24, 2023 16:11:15 GMT -5
You have to feel that Kluber is very much on the block right now. When Whitlock and Schreiber come back, this will be the staff: Sale Paxton Bello Houck Whitlock Jansen Martin Winckowski Crawford Pivetta Schreiber Rodriguez Kluber I get optioning Bernardino and Garza at first to maintain depth even if Kluber might be less valuable than them in the pen, but what happens when Bleier is ready to come back if there are no other injuries or unexpected implosions? DFA Bleier? If not Bleier, the only two I could see would be Joely or Kluber. Maybe they can invent an injury to buy time with an IL stint, but still, eventually something has to give. Given that Crawford and Pivetta are both already SP depth and theoretically provide more value in the pen in the meantime, I don't think we need to go out of our way to keep a struggling Kluber around as a potential 8 starter. I could definitely see eating his contract for a lottery ticket or two. And if not, the same could apply to Rodriguez and Bleier. I just think Kluber's pedigree and ability to start makes him the more valuable reclamation project. If they are smart, it would be: Sale Bello Houck Paxton Crawford Jansen Whitlock Martin Winckowski Pivetta Rodriguez Kluber/Blier (eventually Schrieber) Whitlock is far more valuable at this point pitching high leverage relief innings. Crawford could be just as good, if not better as a starter and we know how elite Whitelock was in the pen. Whitlock throwing 94mph as a starter is not the same pitcher. Book is still out on Whitlock on being a starter. A cost controllable #3/4 starter is far more valuable than a cost-controllable reliever.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on May 24, 2023 16:14:04 GMT -5
Back on the subject of Kluber, as was already mentioned, he likely nixed the proposal of a phantom IL stint. Highly likely he gets DFA’d whenever Wyatt Mills is healthy.
|
|
|
Post by wildsox on May 24, 2023 16:20:56 GMT -5
Back on the subject of Kluber, as was already mentioned, he likely nixed the proposal of a phantom IL stint. Highly likely he gets DFA’d whenever Wyatt Mills is healthy. I definitely think this is only temporary and he’ll be the first to go when the injured are ready if not sooner
|
|
|
Post by oldfaithful2019 on May 24, 2023 16:24:56 GMT -5
Sox are going to need a second starter for the day/nighter with the Rays on June 3rd. Instead of disrupting Pivetta/ Crawford's fluid bullpen use, they could keep Kluber hanging around for that start. Then let him go. I could see that scenario.
|
|
|