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2024 Free Agency
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Aug 10, 2023 5:03:04 GMT -5
Yamamoto's stuff is absolutely gross. Plus fastball. Plus plus splitter. Plus plus curveball. I wouldn't care if they spent 275-300 million to get this guy. First time I've seen him. That looks like a pretty high effort delivery to me. My shoulder is sore just watching him. I think he'd scare me more than most young pitchers on a big money 5-7 year contract.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 10, 2023 5:35:10 GMT -5
Yamamoto's stuff is absolutely gross. Plus fastball. Plus plus splitter. Plus plus curveball. I wouldn't care if they spent 275-300 million to get this guy. First time I've seen him. That looks like a pretty high effort delivery to me. My shoulder is sore just watching him. I think he'd scare me more than most young pitchers on a big money 5-7 year contract. He's young, doesn't cost any compensation, and they eventually need to spend on someone for the rotation.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 10, 2023 7:55:37 GMT -5
I understand the hesitation to think that Bloom is going to give out a "mega" contract to a pitcher, I'm kind of there myself. I'll believe it when I see it but at the same end, he's probably GM'ing for his job this offseason so I think he'd have to be more apt to go out and give out a contract(s) that in previous offseasons he wouldn't have felt comfortable doing because if not now then he's probably not getting another chance.
Then again maybe he believes in this team as is enough to think some more minor moves is going to be enough to get them to where they need to be. I do think they have some really good pieces but don't think mid-level type of moves move the needle enough to get them where they need to be. I think he needs to add one front of the rotation guy and probably a mid rotation 3/4 starter type of guy. I don't want to see them go into next year with the main additions to the rotation being a re-signed Paxton and a guy in the mold of Kluber.
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Post by remmartin34 on Aug 10, 2023 8:26:58 GMT -5
Michael Lorenzen in free agency?
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Post by incandenza on Aug 10, 2023 9:52:41 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm inclined to just sycophantically trust Bloom on whatever pitching acquisitions he wants to make. If he had simply gotten the guys the team was the highest bidder on this past offseason they would have had a rotation of Sale, Paxton, Eovaldi, Eflin, and Bello. That would have worked out pretty damn well and I wouldn't have regretted that they lost out on big money guys like DeGrom and Rodon.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2023 15:39:20 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm inclined to just sycophantically trust Bloom on whatever pitching acquisitions he wants to make. If he had simply gotten the guys the team was the highest bidder on this past offseason they would have had a rotation of Sale, Paxton, Eovaldi, Eflin, and Bello. That would have worked out pretty damn well and I wouldn't have regretted that they lost out on big money guys like DeGrom and Rodon.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,083
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Post by cdj on Aug 10, 2023 15:47:06 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm inclined to just sycophantically trust Bloom on whatever pitching acquisitions he wants to make. If he had simply gotten the guys the team was the highest bidder on this past offseason they would have had a rotation of Sale, Paxton, Eovaldi, Eflin, and Bello. That would have worked out pretty damn well and I wouldn't have regretted that they lost out on big money guys like DeGrom and Rodon. Even some guys they have sniffed out as having some upside and ending up landing clicked in a big way elsewhere (Springs, Perez). Seems like they’re mostly looking for the right things.
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Post by chaimtime on Aug 10, 2023 18:26:11 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm inclined to just sycophantically trust Bloom on whatever pitching acquisitions he wants to make. If he had simply gotten the guys the team was the highest bidder on this past offseason they would have had a rotation of Sale, Paxton, Eovaldi, Eflin, and Bello. That would have worked out pretty damn well and I wouldn't have regretted that they lost out on big money guys like DeGrom and Rodon. Even some guys they have sniffed out as having some upside and ending up landing clicked in a big way elsewhere (Springs, Perez). Seems like they’re mostly looking for the right things. My defining memory of Jeffrey Springs will forever be when he threw the worst changeup—honestly, worst pitch in general—I’ve ever seen to Pete Alonso, who subsequently hit it on a 116-mph line off of, not into, the second row of the Monster. Him suddenly being good for the Rays fills me with rage.
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Post by jmei on Aug 11, 2023 7:25:32 GMT -5
The ump in the Yamamoto clip has some serious rizz.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2023 8:13:42 GMT -5
Yamamoto's stuff is absolutely gross. Plus fastball. Plus plus splitter. Plus plus curveball. I wouldn't care if they spent 275-300 million to get this guy. I don’t mean to pick on Milliken or any of the other similarly super enthusiastic Red Sox Twitter accounts, but for all the folks who are posting minute long Yamamoto clips… have any of them ever watched him pitch a full game before? His profile is obviously highly appealing, as a 25 year old starter who’s been the best pitcher in Japan the last few years. He’s won the Eiji Sawamura Award two seasons in a row, Japan’s Cy Young Award (other recipients have included Darvish, Tanaka, Maeda, Daisuke, and Koji!). But there’s a little bit of Shiny Object Syndrome as it relates to Yamamoto. I don’t know that a lot of these people hyping him up are waking up at 4 AM to see him actually play. I’d love to learn more from people who have actually watched him before. EDIT: I should note many of us probably have seen him before in the WBC… here’s him giving up a go-ahead double to Alex Verdugo for Team Mexico. I had forgotten he was the pitcher for this:
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 11, 2023 8:30:54 GMT -5
Ya’ll know we’re signing Severino for 5m with a team option for 13m. That’s the way Chaim rolls. I feel Price and Sale contracts spooked the front office.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 11, 2023 8:58:11 GMT -5
Ya’ll know we’re signing Severino for 5m with a team option for 13m. That’s the way Chaim rolls. I feel Price and Sale contracts spooked the front office. You're probably right but I just have no stomach this free agency for another SP short term deal in the vein of the Richards/Kluber deal. I think the best course of action to raise the floor of this team next year is to get two legit starters who can be counted on at least as much as one can count on pitchers since they can be volatile. To me they need one of the big four or five FA SPs and another one in the next tier which I would include Paxton. That would give them an opening day rotation of: Yamamoto(Threw him in there since many on the board love him but put in Nola/Urias/Snell whoever else you like) Sale Paxton Bello Houck/Whitlock/Crawford That looks a heck of a lot better than: Sale/Bello/Crawford/Houck or Whitlock/Kluber or Richards type 5th starter. I think scenario one is certainly feasible since they don't really need much in the way of offensive players and should have money to get two legitimate SPs.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Aug 11, 2023 8:59:37 GMT -5
I wonder if some high priced but unusual structure would get this done. For example: 10 years $250mm after year 5 there is a mutual option, Yamamoto can opt out if he thinks he can get more than 5/$125mm or the Sox can opt out for for $25mm.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 11, 2023 9:10:08 GMT -5
I wonder if some high priced but unusual structure would get this done. For example: 10 years $250mm after year 5 there is a mutual option, Yamamoto can opt out if he thinks he can get more than 5/$125mm or the Sox can opt out for for $25mm. I do think we might see something like that for Yamamoto's contract. I don't know about those exact terms but I do expect maybe something in the 20-25 AAV that includes an opt out after X amount of years so Yamamoto can go back into FA and cash in even more if he's proven he's as good as people think he can be and if not he doesn't opt out and still gets some good money the last Y amount of years on the deal. I think teams are going to be hesitant to go to the 30+ million AAV for 6-7 maybe 8 years that top FA pitchers have gotten recently. We think he will translate well to the MLB but as we've seen before it's not always the case with Japanese players. You strap one of those mega deals with him to your books and he doesn't pan out you're screwing you LT flexibility for a while.
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Post by briam on Aug 11, 2023 10:52:00 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 11, 2023 10:52:55 GMT -5
10 years would be the longest contract for a pitcher ever. Only Cole has gotten 9. I think the next longest is Strasburg at 7?
In other words, not realistic, imo.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 11, 2023 11:05:15 GMT -5
10 years would be the longest contract for a pitcher ever. Only Cole has gotten 9. I think the next longest is Strasburg at 7? In other words, not realistic, imo. I can't even imagine an IFA guy in his mind 20s would want to commit to a team in a new country for 10 years
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Post by soxin8 on Aug 11, 2023 11:19:57 GMT -5
Wayne Garland received a 10 year contract from Cleveland in 77 for 2.1 million (a lot back then) but needed rotator cuff surgery in the second year and was done. Maybe affected future offers.
I remembered incorrectly. He hung on until 81 but was not the same pitcher he was for Baltimore.
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Post by terriblehondo on Aug 11, 2023 11:28:21 GMT -5
Mad Max got 7 years in 2015. He was well worth it. Everyone thought it was nuts at the time.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Aug 11, 2023 11:52:15 GMT -5
10 years would be the longest contract for a pitcher ever. Only Cole has gotten 9. I think the next longest is Strasburg at 7? In other words, not realistic, imo. Does his age not factor in here? Cole was 29 when he signed that contract, I believe Strasburg was 31. We're talking a guy who's 5-6 years younger than these pitchers and has dominated in Japan. He's coming over with far more fanfare than Yoshida did, and Yoshida was 29 and got 5 years 100 million.
Edit: I understand that we're talking about a pitcher, not a position player, just illustrating that players from the NPB get the bag, even though they're coming from a "lower league".
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Post by ryanm on Aug 11, 2023 12:44:39 GMT -5
Would be shocked if they don't acquire a top pitcher this offseason. Yamamoto is good the Red Sox will be involved but I don't think they invest how much he is going to cost (175-215) for a guy with no MLB track record think they go for Snell for a Gausman/Ray type deal. Wouldn't be shocked if they wash their hands of Sale and just DFA'd him with one year left because he's not reliable and trade for another like Luzardo or Burnes and extend. Then a rotation of Bello, Luzardo/Burnes, Snell/Yamamoto, Paxton (QO), Crawford is a really solid rotation and still have plenty of depth behind them.
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Post by chaimtime on Aug 11, 2023 12:52:15 GMT -5
Would be shocked if they don't acquire a top pitcher this offseason. Yamamoto is good the Red Sox will be involved but I don't think they invest how much he is going to cost (175-215) for a guy with no MLB track record think they go for Snell for a Gausman/Ray type deal. Wouldn't be shocked if they wash their hands of Sale and just DFA'd him with one year left because he's not reliable and trade for another like Luzardo or Burnes and extend. Then a rotation of Bello, Luzardo/Burnes, Snell/Yamamoto, Paxton (QO), Crawford is a really solid rotation and still have plenty of depth behind them. Why would they DFA Sale? So they can get 0 WAR through 0 innings for their $30 million investment instead of 1.2 through 55 innings? It’s not like he’d be addition by subtraction, nor would DFA’ing him save them money or even achieve anything different from putting him on the 60-day IL.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,083
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Post by cdj on Aug 11, 2023 12:53:31 GMT -5
I don’t think they’d DFA Sale, maybe they’d trade him and eat some money but chances are they just ride it out. No reason to DFA him though, that’s just silly
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Post by incandenza on Aug 11, 2023 13:21:58 GMT -5
Would be shocked if they don't acquire a top pitcher this offseason. Yamamoto is good the Red Sox will be involved but I don't think they invest how much he is going to cost (175-215) for a guy with no MLB track record think they go for Snell for a Gausman/Ray type deal. Wouldn't be shocked if they wash their hands of Sale and just DFA'd him with one year left because he's not reliable and trade for another like Luzardo or Burnes and extend. Then a rotation of Bello, Luzardo/Burnes, Snell/Yamamoto, Paxton (QO), Crawford is a really solid rotation and still have plenty of depth behind them. I would not be shocked if the pitchers they acquire aren't regarded as "top pitchers." Remember last season when Bloom said they intended to add two #2-type pitchers, and then they... didn't? Well, what happened was that they made big pushes for Eovaldi and Eflin, and despite being top bidders for both of them, both turned them down.
In the case of Eflin, at least, no one would have regarded him as a #2 type. But look at how he and Eovaldi have pitched this year.
I wouldn't be surprised if they sign one of those top tier pitchers. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they sign a couple of mid-tier guys that have the commentariat in various states of head-scratching and rage-spewing because the Red Sox see them as top tier pitchers.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 11, 2023 14:11:58 GMT -5
Would be shocked if they don't acquire a top pitcher this offseason. Yamamoto is good the Red Sox will be involved but I don't think they invest how much he is going to cost (175-215) for a guy with no MLB track record think they go for Snell for a Gausman/Ray type deal. Wouldn't be shocked if they wash their hands of Sale and just DFA'd him with one year left because he's not reliable and trade for another like Luzardo or Burnes and extend. Then a rotation of Bello, Luzardo/Burnes, Snell/Yamamoto, Paxton (QO), Crawford is a really solid rotation and still have plenty of depth behind them. I would not be shocked if the pitchers they acquire aren't regarded as "top pitchers." Remember last season when Bloom said they intended to add two #2-type pitchers, and then they... didn't? Well, what happened was that they made big pushes for Eovaldi and Eflin, and despite being top bidders for both of them, both turned them down.
In the case of Eflin, at least, no one would have regarded him as a #2 type. But look at how he and Eovaldi have pitched this year.
I wouldn't be surprised if they sign one of those top tier pitchers. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they sign a couple of mid-tier guys that have the commentariat in various states of head-scratching and rage-spewing because the Red Sox see them as top tier pitchers.
Yep, I don't think anyone should be "shocked" if they don't meet the market on the top tier pitchers. That being the case my belief is that they need two pitchers and my preferred avenue is a top tier pitcher and a guy in the Paxton second type tier of pitchers. I won't grab my pitchfork if they sign two Eflin-esque type of guys with real upside, I will think about grabbing my pitchfork if one of the SPs they sign is of the Kluber/Garret Richards type of low upside washed up 5th starter type. If they sign something like Jordan Montgomery and Giolito or something of the sort, I'd be okay with that. One guy I could see making some sense as a flyer would be Tyler Mahle. Had TJ back in May, sign him to the Paxton special and see if they can get him rehabbed and healthy for year two of the deal.
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