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Patriots 2023 Season Thread
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Post by costpet on Oct 11, 2023 7:15:24 GMT -5
When it comes down to it, we had it pretty good for 18 years. We were in 9 Super Bowls and won 6 of them. We were always the team to beat and we looked down on everyone else. Top dog. The Big Cheese. Numeo Uno. It was a blast and loved wearing our Patriots gear in public.
But, all good things always come to an end at some point. So, now we are at a low point with other teams laughing at us. That's the way the world works. Like the stock market. Up and down. Now it's down. That will end, too. It just might take a little time. BB's fault? As a GM, yes. He has a history of not drafting well. But, you can't deny his coaching ability.
Mr. Kraft could right the ship if he chose to hire a good GM to draft players and let Bill do his thing coaching. Bill might not like it, but if he looked in the mirror I think he might agree it's for the best for the team. If not, he might quit and coach some other team to get the wins record. Either way, things will change and we will get better. It has to.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 11, 2023 7:30:48 GMT -5
When it comes down to it, we had it pretty good for 18 years. We were in 9 Super Bowls and won 6 of them. We were always the team to beat and we looked down on everyone else. Top dog. The Big Cheese. Numeo Uno. It was a blast and loved wearing our Patriots gear in public. But, all good things always come to an end at some point. So, now we are at a low point with other teams laughing at us. That's the way the world works. Like the stock market. Up and down. Now it's down. That will end, too. It just might take a little time. BB's fault? As a GM, yes. He has a history of not drafting well. But, you can't deny his coaching ability. Mr. Kraft could right the ship if he chose to hire a good GM to draft players and let Bill do his thing coaching. Bill might not like it, but if he looked in the mirror I think he might agree it's for the best for the team. If not, he might quit and coach some other team to get the wins record. Either way, things will change and we will get better. It has to. I think he’d resign if we took away roster control. He has chargers written all over him if he does leave |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Oct 11, 2023 9:24:18 GMT -5
theathletic.com/4950228/2023/10/11/new-england-patriots-bill-belichick-robert-kraft/Scathing review of post-Brady years from Howe ($), and I'd say BB is officially on notice. Never underestimate a billionaire's desire to be relevant nearing the end of his life. I think the lack of discipline on the team the last few years is the biggest surprise. They beat themselves so often on offense, on defense, on special teams, in free agency, in the draft, in the staffing. Bill is reverting to the coach he was at Cleveland where he thought he was smarter than everyone else but the results just didn't show it. 20 years is an incredible run. Everything ends badly. Otherwise it wouldn't end.
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Post by rasimon on Oct 11, 2023 15:28:52 GMT -5
www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-week-6-2023Pats OL ranks 29th this year, ahead of only the Seahawks (3-1), Panthers (0-5), and Giants (1-4). How are the Seahawks 3-1 you ask? They beat the Panthers and the Giants, plus an upset against the Lions. Bad OLs do not win games. Last week, Trent Brown had his worst game of the year by al significant margin. Andrews was really really bad in pass protection. Add that to the general crappiness of the rest of the OL and its a miracle that Mac is still alive. Have the Pats looked at La'el Collins? If not for this year then for next year. Next offseason's free agent class of OLmen is pretty weak. www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line//OTOH next year's draft-class for OL looks very good. * Joe Alt LT Notre Dame Olu Fashanu LT Penn State JC Latham OL Alabama Amarius Mims OT Georgia may not come out Graham Barton OL Duke Christian Mahogany G Boston Jordan Morgan OT Arizona Patrick Paul OT Houston Cooper Beebe G Kansas Christian Haynes G/C UConn Javon Foster OT Missouri Taliese Fuega OT Oregon St maybe Its a good class.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 11, 2023 17:05:26 GMT -5
I've been paying extra attention to Joe Alt the last 3 games, given need and 3 top 25 opponents. I'm not seeing top 10-15 type pick crap. They struggle to run, they never run to his side, always middle or to the right. He's given up pressures and sacks. I'll admit it's hard to watch and judge OL guys, I just expected much more given his rankings. The OL beats up weak and good teams, struggles against really good teams.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 11, 2023 17:54:41 GMT -5
I had seen Fashanu mocked to them at 4 or something (Penix early round 2)
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 11, 2023 17:59:44 GMT -5
Sergio brown got arrested on charges connected to the death of his mother. Tried to reenter the country
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Post by jmei on Oct 12, 2023 9:12:57 GMT -5
Mac and a bad OL are a toxic mix. Mac is especially bad when pressured - mix of inability to make plays outside the pocket, mediocre arm strength, bad footwork/mechanics and bad decision-making. Patriots receivers can't separate on the sidelines, so the book is out - flood the middle, get pressure, wait for Mac to make mistakes. The running game is an absolute zero and they get down early and have to throw to get back in the game. It's all worst case scenario for the offense so far. They're not actually that bad and can pull out of it if they can improve their OL from "worst in the league" to merely bad. Not sure that will happen, though.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 12, 2023 10:18:28 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 12, 2023 12:45:13 GMT -5
It seemed a little too coincidental for him to have died purely of natural causes. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 12, 2023 14:23:28 GMT -5
It seemed a little too coincidental for him to have died purely of natural causes. Sad but an important reminder for everyone that when you’re a grown man with a family you swallow your pride and walk away. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 12, 2023 14:35:53 GMT -5
The OL can and likely will improve, if we're talking from horrible to bad type level. There's only so many teams with elite pass rush in this league. Last year Mac Jones was one of the better QBs with a clean pocket, the last two games he's sucked. Parker is open, he majorly under throws ball. Bourne is wide open on short throw, he misees badly. A big problem is like the Jets player said, they are highly predictable and that's a Cardinal sin in football. Boutte made some rookie mistakes in his first game, but he got open. Douglas can get open. Parker is a mixed bad, he can get open sometimes, others it's jump balls, which Mac has been horrible with. See last game, jump balk interception in Maimi game, ball way under thrown. Last year they started out bad, but got going. That progress is gone. Bourne can get open on short and medium routes, he shouldn't be running deep routes with his speed. JuJu needs to be benched, he's Junno 2.0, hurts you playing and he needs to operate in the same area as Bourne. Stop using Gesecki inline, takes him longer to get open that way!
This is part OL, part Mac Jones, part O'Brian and part OL coach. The surprise is the coaching and play calling making things worse. I bitched all offseason about OL and we all have had issues with Mac Jones. Everyone thought O'Brian and our OL were going to be huge upgrades. They picked their top targets and got them, likely by making them highly paid at their positions. O'Brian seems half clueless and our OL coach going back to power blocking has just made things worse. This is just a fact, Bill has literally said we need to start over.
Last year our run blocking was also horrible, but zone blocking created gaps, which fits Stevenson running style. It wasn't good, but we could run and with a healthy Harris to change up styles it was effective enough. Now we have bad run blocking with no gaps. An OC calling QB sneaks. I'm sorry but O'Brian and our OL coach are playing the way they want too, not the best way for the talent we have. Nevermind that stupid crap of rotating RB every series, not picking the best one for the current situation. Third and short, stacked lines, Zeke's power running style is needed, not Stevenson dancing style.
Stop using 3 TE sets for power football, Henry is a so so blocker, Gesecki is bad, it's just stupid. Bring in an extra OL. Space out the line with some of those crazy sets the Ravens use, overloading the right side with guys spaced out. Nevermind the best power run system we used to have involved a full back and once again no fullback. Stop using JuJu as lone single WR in power running attack. It gives away what they are doing and he doesn't threatened the D with his speed to get deep and make you pay for overloading the line. Frankly he's the worst choice for that role.
Josh McDaniels is a great OC, O'Brian isn't. He clearly just used his system and with Brady it worked. I never understood the hate Bama fans had for him, I now get it. He's a better head coach than OC, but a horrible GM. He's probably the reason we signed JuJu and he can't even figure out how to use him.
Sorry again for the rant, I'm just pissed off.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 12, 2023 14:48:04 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 12, 2023 17:49:10 GMT -5
The worst thing that can happen to this team is to win games going forward. Sad but this is where we are.
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Post by marrcus on Oct 13, 2023 0:00:37 GMT -5
Unless the inj situation becomes horrific I think W's against the jets, Giants, Broncos are likely...
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 13, 2023 5:41:55 GMT -5
Unless the inj situation becomes horrific I think W's against the jets, Giants, Broncos are likely... It's really hard to give this team a win after the last two weeks. Those are their most winnable, but if they lose to the Raiders and then go out to lose to the Bills and Dolphins I can't even imagine how much worse it's going to get. |
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Post by costpet on Oct 13, 2023 8:38:57 GMT -5
Looks like we're back to the Billy Sullivan days, where a 50-50 season was considered a good one. That means that if we win another 7 or 8 games, it would be a win. How likely is that to happen? Not very. So, now we hope they don't win another game and get the first pick in the draft. I think that would be a QB. Duh
Is there a great QB in the draft next year? I don't know, so anyone here can jump in and do a short list of the next Brady.
Ask yourself this: If Mac Jones was put on waivers, who would pick him up?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 13, 2023 8:54:32 GMT -5
Looks like we're back to the Billy Sullivan days, where a 50-50 season was considered a good one. That means that if we win another 7 or 8 games, it would be a win. How likely is that to happen? Not very. So, now we hope they don't win another game and get the first pick in the draft. I think that would be a QB. Duh Is there a great QB in the draft next year? I don't know, so anyone here can jump in and do a short list of the next Brady. Ask yourself this: If Mac Jones was put on waivers, who would pick him up? Probably the Jets. Maybe the Bengals as Burrow insurance. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 13, 2023 9:40:04 GMT -5
Expect the Raiders to show up on Sunday. After beating the Packers their next 5 is as follows:
Patriots
Bears
Lions
Giants
Jets
They could feasibly be 7-3 by the end of that stretch and very much be vying for a playoff spot whereas the Patriots are playing for some sort of dignity.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 13, 2023 9:44:39 GMT -5
Looks like we're back to the Billy Sullivan days, where a 50-50 season was considered a good one. That means that if we win another 7 or 8 games, it would be a win. How likely is that to happen? Not very. So, now we hope they don't win another game and get the first pick in the draft. I think that would be a QB. Duh Is there a great QB in the draft next year? I don't know, so anyone here can jump in and do a short list of the next Brady. Ask yourself this: If Mac Jones was put on waivers, who would pick him up? Raiders would probably put in a claim |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 13, 2023 9:58:01 GMT -5
Raiders 29th and 17th in offensive and defensive, Giants 31 and 29, Steelers 29th and 17th, Washington 16 and 31, Colts 10th and 22nd, Chargers 7 and 24, Broncos 19 and 32. Add in Jets, add in division games that can always surprise when you play a team twice.
I don't disagree about best thing is losing every remaining game and picking between two great QBs. It just won't happen. Bill won't trade off players like he should and he won't stop fighting to win games. You get Jack Jones back in a few weeks and your D will be good, unless more injuries happen. If you look at this logically they are likely winning a bunch more games. Other teams will tank. Mac Jones and the offense likely look much different versus some of these crap defenses coming up. If you want top pick Robert Kraft needs to step in like with Jimmy G. and force Bill to sell off and play the young guys. That's highly unlikely, he only did that because Brady wanted it. Bill is chasing the all time win record for a coach, every win is huge for him.
If Mac Jones is put on waivers I'd expect a bunch of teams would claim him. He doesn't make much money and as a backup QB that would make sense for a bunch of teams. Add Raiders, I could also see 49ers who loved him at draft time.
As far as the Draft Caleb Williams is about as elite a QB prospect as you get, like Manning and Luck type level. Drake Maye per reports I'm seeing isn't far behind and likely is #1 pick most years without a Williams. It's about as good as it gets top 2 wise for QBs.
The draft also looks stacked at WR with truly elite talent and depth.
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Post by rasimon on Oct 13, 2023 9:59:46 GMT -5
Looks like we're back to the Billy Sullivan days, where a 50-50 season was considered a good one. That means that if we win another 7 or 8 games, it would be a win. How likely is that to happen? Not very. So, now we hope they don't win another game and get the first pick in the draft. I think that would be a QB. Duh Is there a great QB in the draft next year? I don't know, so anyone here can jump in and do a short list of the next Brady. Ask yourself this: If Mac Jones was put on waivers, who would pick him up? Raiders |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 13, 2023 10:00:06 GMT -5
Looks like we're back to the Billy Sullivan days, where a 50-50 season was considered a good one. That means that if we win another 7 or 8 games, it would be a win. How likely is that to happen? Not very. So, now we hope they don't win another game and get the first pick in the draft. I think that would be a QB. Duh Is there a great QB in the draft next year? I don't know, so anyone here can jump in and do a short list of the next Brady. Ask yourself this: If Mac Jones was put on waivers, who would pick him up? Raiders would probably put in a claim Broncos might be a nice fit. Wilson is cooked and they're just as desperate to find a QB. If I were a Broncos fan I'd be all for taking flyers on former 1st round picks that are still young. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 13, 2023 10:06:40 GMT -5
Raiders 29th and 17th in offensive and defensive, Giants 31 and 29, Steelers 29th and 17th, Washington 16 and 31, Colts 10th and 22nd, Chargers 7 and 24, Broncos 19 and 32. Add in Jets, add in division games that can always surprise when you play a team twice. I don't disagree about best thing is losing every remaining game and picking between two great QBs. It just won't happen. Bill won't trade off players like he should and he won't stop fighting to win games. You get Jack Jones back in a few weeks and your D will be good, unless more injuries happen. If you look at this logically they are likely winning a bunch more games. Other teams will tank. Mac Jones and the offense likely look much different versus some of these crap defenses coming up. If you want top pick Robert Kraft needs to step in like with Jimmy G. and force Bill to sell off and play the young guys. That's highly unlikely, he only did that because Brady wanted it. Bill is chasing the all time win record for a coach, every win is huge for him. If Mac Jones is put on waivers I'd expect a bunch of teams would claim him. He doesn't make much money and as a backup QB that would make sense for a bunch of teams. Add Raiders, I could also see 49ers who loved him at draft time. As far as the Draft Caleb Williams is about as elite a QB prospect as you get, like Manning and Luck type level. Drake Maye per reports I'm seeing isn't far behind and likely is #1 pick most years without a Williams. It's about as good as it gets top 2 wise for QBs. The draft also looks stacked at WR with truly elite talent and depth. I have to think Kraft steps in if they lose to the Raiders. I don't think Bill is here next year if this happens and thus the wins record is meaningless to Kraft because it won't happen here. Jack Jones missing OTAs, pre-season and half the season makes it likely he's not going to be super effective. Plus, hamstring injuries are super tricky. The Patriots might be without JuJu and Pop Douglas this week due to head injuries. Dugger could be out as well with I think a foot injury. Outside of Jack Jones, there's no one with real talent coming back after they already lost their 2 best players for the year. The only thing to happen now is either they stay relatively healthy with what they have or deal with more degrading injuries. The defense is pretty much what it is now. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 13, 2023 10:24:47 GMT -5
Raiders 29th and 17th in offensive and defensive, Giants 31 and 29, Steelers 29th and 17th, Washington 16 and 31, Colts 10th and 22nd, Chargers 7 and 24, Broncos 19 and 32. Add in Jets, add in division games that can always surprise when you play a team twice. I don't disagree about best thing is losing every remaining game and picking between two great QBs. It just won't happen. Bill won't trade off players like he should and he won't stop fighting to win games. You get Jack Jones back in a few weeks and your D will be good, unless more injuries happen. If you look at this logically they are likely winning a bunch more games. Other teams will tank. Mac Jones and the offense likely look much different versus some of these crap defenses coming up. If you want top pick Robert Kraft needs to step in like with Jimmy G. and force Bill to sell off and play the young guys. That's highly unlikely, he only did that because Brady wanted it. Bill is chasing the all time win record for a coach, every win is huge for him. If Mac Jones is put on waivers I'd expect a bunch of teams would claim him. He doesn't make much money and as a backup QB that would make sense for a bunch of teams. Add Raiders, I could also see 49ers who loved him at draft time. As far as the Draft Caleb Williams is about as elite a QB prospect as you get, like Manning and Luck type level. Drake Maye per reports I'm seeing isn't far behind and likely is #1 pick most years without a Williams. It's about as good as it gets top 2 wise for QBs. The draft also looks stacked at WR with truly elite talent and depth. I have to think Kraft steps in if they lose to the Raiders. I don't think Bill is here next year if this happens and thus the wins record is meaningless to Kraft because it won't happen here. Jack Jones missing OTAs, pre-season and half the season makes it likely he's not going to be super effective. Plus, hamstring injuries are super tricky. The Patriots might be without JuJu and Pop Douglas this week due to head injuries. Dugger could be out as well with I think a foot injury. Outside of Jack Jones, there's no one with real talent coming back after they already lost their 2 best players for the year. The only thing to happen now is either they stay relatively healthy with what they have or deal with more degrading injuries. The defense is pretty much what it is now. Where do you get Jack Jones missed all that? He was in camp and played in preseason, he was injured like last week of camp. Add him to Jones and Jackson, knocking Bryant to CB #4 is huge. I'd say the D has a bunch of upside we haven't seen yet with rookies, along with Barmore who's basically been MIA, Uche hasn't played like last year yet. I don't see Kraft doing that, I certainly don't see him doing that during a season. Yeah he probably should do it, I don't see him doing it. Especially when a big part of this is the guy he basically demanded we hire in O'Brian as OC. |
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