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Patriots 2023 Season Thread
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Post by rasimon on Oct 13, 2023 10:30:56 GMT -5
A bunch of commentators have asked if the Patriots should rebuild. Isn't that what they've been doing since Brady left? I guess I'm not sure what that really means.
Does rebuild mean they use their expected high draft pick on a quarterback? They don't have any extra high value future draft picks. Compare the Patriots to the team that wins this year's Super Bowl. The Pats will get premium pick in the top 10 and then they will effectively have comparable picks to the Super Bowl winner (Pats 2nd round pick will be close to the SB winners 1st round pick, Pats 3rd will be close to SB winners 2nd, etc...) other than one good draft pick, why will next years draft be different than other years? What will they do different?
Does rebuild mean they trade off veterans for draft picks? I don't see them getting a lot for their veterans. If a contender had a hole at OT tackle maybe Trent Brown could get them a third round pick? If Jonathan Jones is healthy maybe he gets you a fourth round pick? Hunter Henry might be able to get you a fourth round pick possibly a third? Could Kyle Duggar or Jabril Peppers get a third? I don't see anybody except Christian Gonzalez getting them a first or second round pick.
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Post by costpet on Oct 13, 2023 10:42:08 GMT -5
Well, whoever they pick in the draft, hopefully with a lot of extra picks by trading, had better be good. QB, WR, OT top the list. No more kickers, please. I hope Kraft does come in to force a real GM on BB. If he can't handle the "demotion", tough. Go somewhere else. It all starts with good players. Coaching only helps. BB was great with good players, not so go without them. So, go find some good ones.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 13, 2023 10:45:03 GMT -5
I have to think Kraft steps in if they lose to the Raiders. I don't think Bill is here next year if this happens and thus the wins record is meaningless to Kraft because it won't happen here. Jack Jones missing OTAs, pre-season and half the season makes it likely he's not going to be super effective. Plus, hamstring injuries are super tricky. The Patriots might be without JuJu and Pop Douglas this week due to head injuries. Dugger could be out as well with I think a foot injury. Outside of Jack Jones, there's no one with real talent coming back after they already lost their 2 best players for the year. The only thing to happen now is either they stay relatively healthy with what they have or deal with more degrading injuries. The defense is pretty much what it is now. Where do you get Jack Jones missed all that? He was in camp and played in preseason, he was injured like last week of camp. Add him to Jones and Jackson, knocking Bryant to CB #4 is huge. I'd say the D has a bunch of upside we haven't seen yet with rookies, along with Barmore who's basically been MIA, Uche hasn't played like last year yet. I don't see Kraft doing that, I certainly don't see him doing that during a season. Yeah he probably should do it, I don't see him doing it. Especially when a big part of this is the guy he basically demanded we hire in O'Brian as OC. He played in the pre-season? I must have missed that. I didn't think he did. I also thought he missed some time due to the legal issues and then subsequently getting hurt, so maybe not as problematic, but he's still missed significant time and the injury I don't believe just goes away in a calendar year. I would still take him over Bryant, absolutely. I just don't think they have enough on defense for it to matter much. Uche might have been better last year when Judon was drawing more attention. I don't think Kraft will fire him in-season, but I would suspect that he will tell Bill this is his last season or give him the option to coach without GM duties. If they lose to the Raiders, they're not beating Buffalo or Miami in Miami and then they'll be 1-7. I can't imagine Kraft wanting to win 3-4 games just to help Bill cross the finish line while damaging the long-term health of the franchise. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 13, 2023 18:08:58 GMT -5
Where do you get Jack Jones missed all that? He was in camp and played in preseason, he was injured like last week of camp. Add him to Jones and Jackson, knocking Bryant to CB #4 is huge. I'd say the D has a bunch of upside we haven't seen yet with rookies, along with Barmore who's basically been MIA, Uche hasn't played like last year yet. I don't see Kraft doing that, I certainly don't see him doing that during a season. Yeah he probably should do it, I don't see him doing it. Especially when a big part of this is the guy he basically demanded we hire in O'Brian as OC. He played in the pre-season? I must have missed that. I didn't think he did. I also thought he missed some time due to the legal issues and then subsequently getting hurt, so maybe not as problematic, but he's still missed significant time and the injury I don't believe just goes away in a calendar year. I would still take him over Bryant, absolutely. I just don't think they have enough on defense for it to matter much. Uche might have been better last year when Judon was drawing more attention. I don't think Kraft will fire him in-season, but I would suspect that he will tell Bill this is his last season or give him the option to coach without GM duties. If they lose to the Raiders, they're not beating Buffalo or Miami in Miami and then they'll be 1-7. I can't imagine Kraft wanting to win 3-4 games just to help Bill cross the finish line while damaging the long-term health of the franchise. He played in OTA's, full camp and multiple preseason games and was injured last week of camp. I mean we've seen one game with Uche without Judon. You can believe whatever you want, I personally think there's a zero change Kraft is talking to Bill about last season or reduced role next year during this season. Ask yourself this, don't you think Kraft wants Bill to reach that milestone coaching for Patriots? I certainly do. I can see some talks in offseason happening, not right now. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 13, 2023 19:38:31 GMT -5
He played in the pre-season? I must have missed that. I didn't think he did. I also thought he missed some time due to the legal issues and then subsequently getting hurt, so maybe not as problematic, but he's still missed significant time and the injury I don't believe just goes away in a calendar year. I would still take him over Bryant, absolutely. I just don't think they have enough on defense for it to matter much. Uche might have been better last year when Judon was drawing more attention. I don't think Kraft will fire him in-season, but I would suspect that he will tell Bill this is his last season or give him the option to coach without GM duties. If they lose to the Raiders, they're not beating Buffalo or Miami in Miami and then they'll be 1-7. I can't imagine Kraft wanting to win 3-4 games just to help Bill cross the finish line while damaging the long-term health of the franchise. He played in OTA's, full camp and multiple preseason games and was injured last week of camp. I mean we've seen one game with Uche without Judon. You can believe whatever you want, I personally think there's a zero change Kraft is talking to Bill about last season or reduced role next year during this season. Ask yourself this, don't you think Kraft wants Bill to reach that milestone coaching for Patriots? I certainly do. I can see some talks in offseason happening, not right now. I think Kraft wants Bill to get it, but at 1-7, do you think Bill's job is safe for next year? If not, Kraft is going to let this situation get worse for an extra meaningless win or 2? At the very least I think Kraft is going to give Bill the choice to either just coach or go elsewhere. Even assuming Bill is safe next year, I can see Kraft telling Bill to punt on the season and load up for next because it isn't working this season. If they don't dramatically improve, Bill could be 4-5 years away from the record. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 13, 2023 22:15:00 GMT -5
Does rebuild mean they trade off veterans for draft picks? I don't see them getting a lot for their veterans. If a contender had a hole at OT tackle maybe Trent Brown could get them a third round pick? If Jonathan Jones is healthy maybe he gets you a fourth round pick? Hunter Henry might be able to get you a fourth round pick possibly a third? Could Kyle Duggar or Jabril Peppers get a third? I don't see anybody except Christian Gonzalez getting them a first or second round pick. Hunter Henry is absolutely never getting us a third round pick. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 13, 2023 22:21:11 GMT -5
Take JC Jackson who Chargers were going to likely release, they got value because they paid salary. Pay most of a players salary and you can get more.
I'm trying to trade JuJu to Chiefs, given his replacements haven't done much. 5 million extra cap hit this year, but get out of next year.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 13, 2023 22:24:48 GMT -5
Idk if anybody wants Juju, he doesn’t seem to have any explosiveness which jives with Breer’s report about his knee
Shedeur looking like a top 5 pick against a really bad Stanford team. I just noticed Christian Fauria’s kid is on the team
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 14, 2023 0:06:03 GMT -5
Idk if anybody wants Juju, he doesn’t seem to have any explosiveness which jives with Breer’s report about his knee Shedeur looking like a top 5 pick against a really bad Stanford team. I just noticed Christian Fauria’s kid is on the team Gave them the cdj moosh, they’re in the middle of an epic meltdown |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 14, 2023 0:41:53 GMT -5
Idk if anybody wants Juju, he doesn’t seem to have any explosiveness which jives with Breer’s report about his knee Shedeur looking like a top 5 pick against a really bad Stanford team. I just noticed Christian Fauria’s kid is on the team Explosive is not the word I would have used to describe JuJu, possession receiver with yac ability. That's what Sanders does, do well against crap defenses. I want to see him do well against a quality D, the one he faced destroyed him. Tomorrow Oregon/Washington, USC/Notre Dame and UNC/Miami, that's as good as it gets watching QBs against good teams. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 14, 2023 10:10:14 GMT -5
I see rumors of Bourne for Renfrow, I'm not interested in that, but would easily trade Bourne to Raiders. You need to figure out best you can what you have in Douglas, Boutte and Thornton. If it's a money thing for Raiders, I'll paydown Bournes salary for a better pick, say 4th round.
Type of deal this team needs to make. Yeah you aren't getting any crazy offers, but gets some picks, give young guys playing time and depending on trade save some money. Bourne is probably worth a 5th, if you pay money a 4th. We know teams called before season. Given the money you have next year, it gives you extra ammo to move up in draft. Which is what this team needs, target playmaker at positions of need.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 14, 2023 10:21:06 GMT -5
Football teams don’t have fire sales:
1. Teams have limited cap space to add players
2. It’s not super easy to incorporate new players into the team midseason
3. You still need to field a team yourself and football is harder to incorporate outside players midseason.
I wouldn’t trade Jonathan Jones; he’s under contract for more years.
The guys I’d look at trading are as follows:
- Mills
- Duggar (if return is decent and you’re far apart on contract negotiations)
- Onwenu (see Duggar)
- Uche (see above)
- Bourne/Parker/JuJu
- Elliott
- Henry
If they can trade one or 2 of those guys it’d be good. They aren’t trading any and even if they were motivated ti deal guys - you wouldn’t be able to trade more then one or 2.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 14, 2023 12:35:45 GMT -5
Broncos have moved on already from two DE, with rumors on many more players. Seems highly likely they move on from a couple more pieces. Is that a fire sale with a 53 man roster and 15 player practice squad? Yeah they aren't trading ten players, nor do I want that.
That would be close to my list, but I do believe you can trade more than 1 to 2 players, it's just not likely with Bill. That's a problem.
I don't think you can trade any OL guys, that falls under the basic you need to actually field a team crap. Same with Jonathan Jones and he's under contract going forward. You'd have to be blown away by offers on certain players and that's not likely.
Say you can trade Bourne and JuJu, I wouldn't be against adding Jerry Jeudy if the cost was right either, which it likely won't be. I'd talk to them about swapping Thornton for him, maybe plus a lower type pick.
I really don't want to win, you get Jeudy next year also and I'd like to see what Mac Jones does with him. Call it making sure we checked every box before moving on.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 14, 2023 13:20:28 GMT -5
I agree. I was thinking the Broncos are doing a tear down. They can call guys up from the practice squad, make waiver claims or just sign RG3 or Kap. If the goal is to lose, I don't care whose on the roster.
The following are officially out against the Raiders:
Riley Reiff
Tyrone Wheatley Jr.
Cole Strange
Pop Douglas
JuJu Smith-Schuster
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cdj
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Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Oct 14, 2023 16:10:16 GMT -5
Penix moving up to my QB3 I think
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 14, 2023 16:27:47 GMT -5
Malik gonna play tomorrow, signed to the active 53. Thornton activated. Judon and Wheatley Jr to the IR. Reagor and Pharms recalled from the PS for the game
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 14, 2023 18:02:30 GMT -5
Broncos have moved on already from two DE, with rumors on many more players. Seems highly likely they move on from a couple more pieces. Is that a fire sale with a 53 man roster and 15 player practice squad? Yeah they aren't trading ten players, nor do I want that. That would be close to my list, but I do believe you can trade more than 1 to 2 players, it's just not likely with Bill. That's a problem. I don't think you can trade any OL guys, that falls under the basic you need to actually field a team crap. Same with Jonathan Jones and he's under contract going forward. You'd have to be blown away by offers on certain players and that's not likely. Say you can trade Bourne and JuJu, I wouldn't be against adding Jerry Jeudy if the cost was right either, which it likely won't be. I'd talk to them about swapping Thornton for him, maybe plus a lower type pick. I really don't want to win, you get Jeudy next year also and I'd like to see what Mac Jones does with him. Call it making sure we checked every box before moving on. Let’s see if they actually deal more guys and who, but yea if you trade 4-5 “starter” types in the nfl that is a fire sale and I don’t recall it ever happening (probably has) |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 14, 2023 18:26:30 GMT -5
Malik gonna play tomorrow, signed to the active 53. Thornton activated. Judon and Wheatley Jr to the IR. Reagor and Pharms recalled from the PS for the game Malik Cunningham is being signed to the 53-man roster with a three-year deal, source said. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Oct 14, 2023 20:55:52 GMT -5
Jayden Daniels is my guy, it is decided
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 14, 2023 22:06:57 GMT -5
Caleb Williams didn't look like the #1 pick tonight.
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Post by costpet on Oct 15, 2023 8:14:44 GMT -5
The ND QB looked a lot better than Williams. Plus, I hated Williams' side arm throws, which could backfire in the pros. So, cross him off the draft list.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 15, 2023 9:11:33 GMT -5
The ND QB is also gonna be 25 before he steps on an NFL field so he should look good against a bunch of 20/21 YO
Caleb looked rough, I don’t think it’s enough to disregard everything else he’s done so far in his career. I still think he’d go 1.1 tomorrow. He’s just not as much of a lock for it as he was before. I personally would pick Drake Maye, I think he’s the closest thing to Josh Allen there’s been since Allen was picked. Not a flawless performance against Miami but he really stepped up in the 2nd half.
Penix looked good against Oregon. Daniels continues to be sneakily the most dominant qb in college football. It’s weird to me he’s only now starting to get some hype- he’s leading college football in yards, has size, has speed, has good arm strength, has been accurate, and has been the best deep ball thrower in college football this year. On top of all that you can see his poise and leadership ability. He is going to end up being the 3rd QB taken off the board at worst imo, and it wouldn’t shock me to see the Pats take him if a rival SEC coach like Saban puts in a good word with Bill. He’s Deshaun Watson with less hype imo and we’ve seen BOB do well developing a guy like that
My current top 5:
Williams
Maye
Daniels
Penix
Sanders
Honorable mentions: Nix, Ewers
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cdj
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Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Oct 15, 2023 9:24:16 GMT -5
Saints benched LT Trevor Penning. He’s not good but he would probably be our 2nd best tackle and 3rd best lineman (given how Onwenu has looked)
Was picked 19th in 2022. Dealt with some foot issues last season, has started all 5 games this year and grades out as the 47th best tackle in football according to PFF. Was their worst lineman against the Pats last week- but they have a good line so it’s not that much of an indictment on his game
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Post by philarhody on Oct 15, 2023 9:32:09 GMT -5
The ND QB looked a lot better than Williams. Plus, I hated Williams' side arm throws, which could backfire in the pros. So, cross him off the draft list. Your keyboard is missing the italics button. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 15, 2023 9:49:46 GMT -5
Colts could use a QB now.
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